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More windings around the post better sound?

#21
@JRA, I wrongly used the expression "looks better" because it is the literal translation of Portuguese, which is my first language. I wasn't talking about looks. What I meant is "it works better for me".

Are we not wandering here? The OP asks was "...What do you guys think of more windings have an effect on the way a bass sounds?...", well, more windings may or may not affect the tune, or just the sound of open strings, because of the nut break angle, not the bass tone. The OP's problem must be another one.
 
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#22
Better "sound"? Probably not. The string does not vibrate above the nut. Try this - place your index finger on a string, above the nut; don't touch the neck or head with your thumb or any other finger. Pluck the string; you'll feel no vibration above the nut.

If, however, you don't have a sufficiently sharp break angle between the nut and the tuning post (as might happen with, say, only one winding around the post) the intonation may be harder to dial in.
 
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#24
Once i figureed out what works, and cheaper dodgy tuners not withstanding, the only time my basses go out of tune is if the peg was turned getting in and out of a gig bag.

So on a new wind, I pull the string tight to take any wind slack out.

I don't often bother leaving a tuner in line for most gigs. Tune up at the start and thats about it.
 
#25
I haven't experienced more or less winds affecting tone. I will say I cut a new string short once which is a pretty bad feeling so I tend to cut them long now because of that. My biggest thing is to make sure the string is not twisted in the area from the tuner to the bridge saddle. IMO that will cause many more issues than post windings. For the OP - check / adjust pickup height.
 
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#26
It could be that it takes some nickel on the strings to keep them alive. So maybe try nps or pure nickel roundwound strings. I remember that Pro Steels tend to change from aggressive to kinda lifeless after a while. They do retain an interesting zombie tone though.
 
#29
WOW, I guess I'm not the only one with OCD here. LOL Thank you guys for all your responses.So and additional string retainer on the E and A string would not work because of the D-tuner. I will try the pencil trick.The bass is from 1974 and it looks like the original nut.But the break angles on all strings look good now that I have the extra windings. I used to also yank pretty hard on the strings after installation to pull out all the slack at the windings. Maybe that is not a good thing to do. I also have never bent the string 90 degrees before cutting it. I'm a little confused about that. Should I bend where the string slides into the center hole of the slot in the post? Or should I cut right behind the bend and slide that bent part down into the hole? Can somebody clarify that for me?
Another thing I did different this time was this: I have a quick release bridge on the bass and i used to wrap the extra length around the post and the hook the ball end into the bridge. That way I didn't have to make a bunch of turns on the tuner. This time I made sure there were no twists in the string and wound the whole thing onto the tuner by turning the keys. So I just picked up my bass and it seems zingier than it used to be. Even with brand new strings in the past.
I have been playing bass forever and it seems I have to develop some new habits about this.
 
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#30
dangevans said:
I might be in the minority here, but I think there are a plethora of other factors that impact good tone besides the string windings.
Click to expand...
Of course, I'm sure we all would agree with that. FYI The Bass is a Marcus Miller type bass. Active and bright yet warm sounding. The Amp is an EBS 502 Reidmar also a bright sounding amp. The cabs have 12s and horns. The strings are D'Addario Prosteels stainless .I had the right sound and livelyness on the D and G but not as much on the A and definitely lacking on the E.
One other thing that might be an issue ( I think ) is the truss rod. The neck, even without tension is pretty flat.So I tightened it a bit to create some tension in there. It's made the neck a little flatter that my other basses and I have to lighten my touch slightly on the D string below the 5th fret. Not drastically but I will have to get used to that a little.Maybe that extra tension helps the neck resonate better?
 
#31
LetItGrowTone said:
@Geri O, thanks.
Do have a dremel tool, but I'm guessing that the posts are hollow and that trying to mod them wouldn't go well.
Click to expand...

That's a possibility, of course. But I think that once the plating has been cut through, corrosion would immediately set in.

That's why I cringe every time someone mentions trimming a bridge for whatever reason. I think it needs to be left alone and put it in the position it needs to be in or get another bridge. Unless one owns a plating facility....:D
 
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#32
GodPlayedBass said:
Yeah with 2 to 3 wraps you give the string more tension and stability. A good bass tech will tell you always do 2 to 3.
Click to expand...
Why would it have more tension? The tension is determined by the string gauge, the distance between the nut witness point and the bridge witness point, and the pitch you tune too. As long as you're tuning to the same pitch, the number of wraps around the tuning post won't affect string tension.
 
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#33
Aside from the hands (which isn't applicable here) the tone and resonance of the instrument is greatly effected by these main areas:

1. The condition of the nut. If you haven't filed out (very lightly and very minimally) the nut in a while...a couple passes angled slightly down towards the headstock will do you some good. This gets rid of conflicting material and if there is binding happening...the binding will act to deaden the strings prematurely. This should be done once every 3 to 5 years or so. Be very sparing in your light passes. This is about cleaning out unwanted material...not about sawing a canal. :) Also if the nut is made of bone...really check the structure to make sure you don't see any hairline cracking affecting the overall structure of the nut.

2. Nut lubrication. In order for strings to move freely..the nut of your instrument should be lubricated once every couple of months to once every 6 months after a good cleaning of the area. Especially in hot and dry climates.

3. Nut material. This is a lesser concern because plastic composites have become pretty good in the last 20 years or so and also proper maintenance of the nut will go a long way. For resonance...generally the harder the substance used along with proper routing...the more resonant the bass will be. Brass, Bone and some graphite like composites will generally lead to better resonance.

4. Pickup output. You will want to check your signal output on pickups every couple of years or so in order to see if there may be an output problem or an output change. Keep a diary of your instruments outputs.

5. Pickup height. Overtime pickup height will vary and every instrument has it's own sweet spot. You'd be surprised what two or three twists on a screwdriver can do to your overall sound. This is especially important if you use the pickups as a thumb anchor because you will be moving the pickup more than you may realize over time.

6. Bridge. Make sure your bridge saddles are completely cleaned...not just wiped off. Anything a string touches needs to be cleaned and lubricated. Nut lubricant can most usually be used on saddles.

7. Make sure the saddle angles match the arc of your frets. This is very subtle...but if your saddles are a straight plane and your frets are on a curve...there is a small amount of conflict when the string from the flat plane hits the arched plane of the fret. Be very minimal in recreating the arc on the saddles. The arcs should be done (If a 4 string) on the E and G strings. Generally it's o.k. to leave the A and D strings on a flat plane...because often that's very close to what's happening on the frets themselves. Radius matters in the equation to a fully resonant and optimally playable instrument.

8. The material of the bridge and bridge saddles matter. The harder the substance...with proper placement, routing and care, the more resonance the instrument will have. Make sure all the screws are tightened down firmly...but not over-tightened. You want the strongest connection to the wood you can get but you also want to make sure the tension of the screws is even so there isn't a strong side/weak side.

And yes...in response to your original post and not the newer questions...having way too many windings can throw a tuner off by having too much mass on it's furthest point...but if you keep it in the ballpark of 2 to 5 windings with the string coming out to the nut closest to the headstock itself because the angle of the string hitting the nut matters in cutting down play...you're golden on a traditional winder.
 
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#36
J33 said:
Aside from the hands (which isn't applicable here) the tone and resonance of the instrument is greatly effected by these main areas:

1. The condition of the nut. If you haven't filed out (very lightly and very minimally) the nut in a while...a couple passes angled slightly down towards the headstock will do you some good. This gets rid of conflicting material and if there is binding happening...the binding will act to deaden the strings prematurely. This should be done once every 3 to 5 years or so. Be very sparing in your light passes. This is about cleaning out unwanted material...not about sawing a canal. :) Also if the nut is made of bone...really check the structure to make sure you don't see any hairline cracking affecting the overall structure of the nut.

2. Nut lubrication. In order for strings to move freely..the nut of your instrument should be lubricated once every couple of months to once every 6 months after a good cleaning of the area. Especially in hot and dry climates.

3. Nut material. This is a lesser concern because plastic composites have become pretty good in the last 20 years or so and also proper maintenance of the nut will go a long way. For resonance...generally the harder the substance used along with proper routing...the more resonant the bass will be. Brass, Bone and some graphite like composites will generally lead to better resonance.

4. Pickup output. You will want to check your signal output on pickups every couple of years or so in order to see if there may be an output problem or an output change. Keep a diary of your instruments outputs.

5. Pickup height. Overtime pickup height will vary and every instrument has it's own sweet spot. You'd be surprised what two or three twists on a screwdriver can do to your overall sound. This is especially important if you use the pickups as a thumb anchor because you will be moving the pickup more than you may realize over time.

6. Bridge. Make sure your bridge saddles are completely cleaned...not just wiped off. Anything a string touches needs to be cleaned and lubricated. Nut lubricant can most usually be used on saddles.

7. Make sure the saddle angles match the arc of your frets. This is very subtle...but if your saddles are a straight plane and your frets are on a curve...there is a small amount of conflict when the string from the flat plane hits the arched plane of the fret. Be very minimal in recreating the arc on the saddles. The arcs should be done (If a 4 string) on the E and G strings. Generally it's o.k. to leave the A and D strings on a flat plane...because often that's very close to what's happening on the frets themselves. Radius matters in the equation to a fully resonant and optimally playable instrument.

8. The material of the bridge and bridge saddles matter. The harder the substance...with proper placement, routing and care, the more resonance the instrument will have. Make sure all the screws are tightened down firmly...but not over-tightened. You want the strongest connection to the wood you can get but you also want to make sure the tension of the screws is even so there isn't a strong side/weak side.

And yes...in response to your original post and not the newer questions...having way too many windings can throw a tuner off by having too much mass on it's furthest point...but if you keep it in the ballpark of 2 to 5 windings with the string coming out to the nut closest to the headstock itself because the angle of the string hitting the nut matters in cutting down play...you're golden on a traditional winder.
Click to expand...
Wow, thank you for that. There is a lot of information in you post. Some of it is new for me and I have been playing bass for close to 40 years.I'll print this out :)
 
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#37
TomB said:
OP, I suspect you may have nailed it by not binding the ball end while you wrap it. Twist may have been the culprit.
Click to expand...
That's what I'm thinking. I don't play the 74 Jazz so much anymore mostly I play my 5 strings and my 6 string. But lately I have taken it out a few times and I was thinking that doesn't sound as good anymore as it used to.
But with the latest set of strings it's back. Possibly if I have a twist in the string and then i also yank on the string to make the windings settle... that could maybe destroy the string. I won't do that anymore LOL
 
#39
fretlessman71 said:
The two things with string installation that I have found to be tone killers are:
  1. Using a string that doesn't taper before it gets to the peg (such as a B string on a five-a-side headstock)
  2. Failing to bend the string hard (90º angle) before cutting to size
Is it possible that one or both of the above occurred here as well?

Regarding the nut, get a pencil and color in the nut slot. That's all the lube you need there, even with an Xtender Key.
Click to expand...

After reading this thread, I realized I had forgotten two other causes of bad tone caused by improper string installation:

3. String comes off the peg too high, making solid contact with the nut impossible
4. String gets twisted during installation
 
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#40
So again where do you cut the string after bending it 90 degrees? I have always just stuck the end into the hole that's in the center of the slot of the post and then bent the string around in the direction where it is supposed to go.That's more that a 90 degree bend. Or do I actually need to bend the string 90 degrees and then cut it less than a mm behind the bend, so it can still fit into the hole? I'm confused about that.
 

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