And that folks is why you should always have a badass J at your disposal...and yeah...I don't agree that soapbars don't cut..
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And that folks is why you should always have a badass J at your disposal...and yeah...I don't agree that soapbars don't cut..
This is much longer clip featuring Norm Stockton himself. I really love the concept behind his bass even though I have no intention of ever spending that kind of money on a bass.
Many thanks for that link. Absolutely fascinating on a number of levels.
Norm seems like one of the nicest and most down to earth players I have heard, which speaks to my continued impression that the really top cats are also really accessible. He is certainly a chops wizard.
Among other things, I found it somewhat terrifying that in the whole discussion of "groove" with a whole room full of bass players, there was almost no good response, including his own. And, really, "the drummer's right foot?!?" Are you kidding me?!? Groove KILLER, IME. I would have said something more like a combination of syncopation and swinging hard on the 2 and 4 (which is either the snare or high hat, depending on genre; NOT the 1 and 3, which is the drummer's right foot - NOT). Argghhh.
Anyhow, while I have total admiration for NS's playing ability, I also have to say that I can not get with the tones of that bass for practical gigs. It just seems to be missing some booty; and what Chef said, although the single coil tone in the earlier vid was a good bit closer to sounds I could use.
Each to their own. I really have to hear instruments in common every day gig mixes to make much out of the sounds they produce. The clinic thing is interesting for other reasons; but, the tonal part is nearly meaningless to me. YMMV
So, I currently own the MTD NS Saratoga and I can dial in so many different sounds. Now, I love Sadowsky basses, but I am totally in love with the MTD NS because of all of the different tones.
I will say that I had to play around with the electronics on the MTD, A LOT, to get the right sound. And, I listened to the advice of Norm and others on this board and tried playing with their suggestions. I play with the bass and the mids boosted about 95%. Yes, I know that sounds scary, but trust me, it works. I thought the same thing when it was suggested, but I tried the advice and it works; lots of nice growl. The treble is one knob I continuously play with; I am almost always between +10% and -10% boost on it depending on whether I want a "zingy" tone. The maple board can add a lot of brightness, so I use the treble knob to tone it down. I love the switches. My bridge pup is always set to single coil, but I switch the neck pup, a lot, to get the tone I need.
Like I said, I love Sadowsky basses, but there is just something about this bass that is unique and it is extremely versatile...once you find the sweet spot. As suggested by other people, I had to play a lot with the band to find that spot. Trying to find that spot without the band just doesn't work. So, playing it did take some patience from me and lots of tinkering. But, I am glad I stuck with it.
I will say that I had to play around with the electronics on the MTD, A LOT, to get the right sound. And, I listened to the advice of Norm and others on this board and tried playing with their suggestions. I play with the bass and the mids boosted about 95%. Yes, I know that sounds scary, but trust me, it works. I thought the same thing when it was suggested, but I tried the advice and it works; lots of nice growl. The treble is one knob I continuously play with; I am almost always between +10% and -10% boost on it depending on whether I want a "zingy" tone. The maple board can add a lot of brightness, so I use the treble knob to tone it down. I love the switches. My bridge pup is always set to single coil, but I switch the neck pup, a lot, to get the tone I need.
Like I said, I love Sadowsky basses, but there is just something about this bass that is unique and it is extremely versatile...once you find the sweet spot. As suggested by other people, I had to play a lot with the band to find that spot. Trying to find that spot without the band just doesn't work. So, playing it did take some patience from me and lots of tinkering. But, I am glad I stuck with it.
I don't look at it that way. I just think that the bass is so versatile that finding the right sound takes a little work/practice with band. The tone can be all over the spectrum and depending on the style and versatility of the band, dialing in the right tone could take some work.
As Stokeu said. The EQ on the NS model is definitely different than other MTDs. And, there are settings that you would not normally think of doing that actually work quite well. Like boosting the bass or mids all the way. Intuitively, it's not something you would think would work. But it actually does with the NS. The same thing for running single coil at the bridge and dual at the neck. Normally you would think to do it the other way. So once you get passed that and realize there are a lot of things you can do with the bass that you would never dream of doing with another bass. Then things get exciting. All that to say. The bass is extremely flexible and that is why sometimes it takes a little longer to get "your sound". Because "your sound" may not be the same as "my sound". But the NS can do both and more. Just as Mike designed it.
If it is pretty quick once you understand it, cool. I am tend to prefer a fixed number of usable tones over endless variety.
I've owned a bunch of basses with soapbars that cut every bit as well as the single coil jazzes I've owned. I think a lot of this comes down to the individual bass in question and not just a given "model". People have a natural tendency, I think, to try one bass (let's say an MTD 535 for the sake of argument) and then come to a conclusion about that model in general, not just that bass in particular. "Oh, I had an MTD 535 and it got lost in the mix - so MTD 535s get lost in the mix". Well, some do but a lot don't. I've owned eight 535s and gigged them all in a variety of circumstances (different band line-ups, different stages). Of the eight I had trouble with only one cutting the way I wanted it to. Sadowskys have a great reputation for sitting well in a mix, but I know people who've had bad experiences with them. Wood is unpredictable and a bass doesn't always turn out the way we might have hoped based on specs.
By the way, I've been playing my Sadowsky Modern with my thirteen piece a lot lately and it cuts through very well. And the FOH guys love it.
To the tones/timbre discussion I believe both sides are correct. There is a beautiful thing in a Classic Stingray's "one good sound", it's just a dang good fat, slanky, round, snap that is very attractive and pleasing to the ear. Dime the Bass control, set the Treble on 65 percent and play baby play.
On the other side of the wagon your basic Bartolini HR-4.6AP hooked to a set of hum bucking (split-able) pickups with it's three band EQ, and switchable mid FREAK control can be a glorious journey through tonal Nirvana. The amount of tight to thick, schlap to swap possibilities are just about endless.
Do not own nor have played either of these basses though having owned thousands of basses prior to the onset of these builders being in vogue I feel like I understand the conversation. Owned a couple Tobias basses along the way and my fare amount of custom basses with a J swang to them. One J that comes to mind was a little known builder at the time by the name of Stuart Spector. I had a little four string Spector that had that J thang down.
Once owned a custom fretless 4 string bass that had Bartolini J pups and the original Bartolini XTC pre that was so astounding/astonishing a glorious crying tone that after Bill Bartolini got to hear it during the Atlanta Guitar Expo he took it home with him and kept my (brand new to me) custom made Curbow Fretless Bass and kept it for a year. The way this bass sounded is a testament to the individual build, the combination of woods and the sum total of it's oneness.
On the Norm Stockton clips I find Norm such an amazingly nice guy with lots of good chops. I have always been quite the bull headed curmudgeon and wish I could be that nice. The tone he is sporting in that video is not for me though that may be his cup of tea or my cheap Harman Kardon speakers suck. Its got kind of a Mid honk to it that is just not to my liking. I'm sure that bass will however do a fair plethora of tones way differing from those in the video.
Currently my favorite in the stable is a Brubaker KXB-5 that has the same Bartolini pickups and pre in it as the MTD with the unusual "bolt through neck" joint. I have found what I believe to be the perfect tight yet warm and round tone among the many combinations available. With the blend set to 75% bridge-25% neck (in dual single coil mode), the EQ set at 60% percent boost on the bass, 70% boost on the treble, and 60% boost on the mid control (pulled out) and the preamp set to active I get one of the most beloved tones I have had in some time. Very tight and articulate, yet full of punch!
That being said there is something to a good JJ tone bass too so I think the only clear choice is for the OP to buy both and report back to us. I suggest which ever one he does not like be rapidly shipped off to me for which I will quietly shield it from further harassment on an internet forum.
On the other side of the wagon your basic Bartolini HR-4.6AP hooked to a set of hum bucking (split-able) pickups with it's three band EQ, and switchable mid FREAK control can be a glorious journey through tonal Nirvana. The amount of tight to thick, schlap to swap possibilities are just about endless.
Do not own nor have played either of these basses though having owned thousands of basses prior to the onset of these builders being in vogue I feel like I understand the conversation. Owned a couple Tobias basses along the way and my fare amount of custom basses with a J swang to them. One J that comes to mind was a little known builder at the time by the name of Stuart Spector. I had a little four string Spector that had that J thang down.
Once owned a custom fretless 4 string bass that had Bartolini J pups and the original Bartolini XTC pre that was so astounding/astonishing a glorious crying tone that after Bill Bartolini got to hear it during the Atlanta Guitar Expo he took it home with him and kept my (brand new to me) custom made Curbow Fretless Bass and kept it for a year. The way this bass sounded is a testament to the individual build, the combination of woods and the sum total of it's oneness.
On the Norm Stockton clips I find Norm such an amazingly nice guy with lots of good chops. I have always been quite the bull headed curmudgeon and wish I could be that nice. The tone he is sporting in that video is not for me though that may be his cup of tea or my cheap Harman Kardon speakers suck. Its got kind of a Mid honk to it that is just not to my liking. I'm sure that bass will however do a fair plethora of tones way differing from those in the video.
Currently my favorite in the stable is a Brubaker KXB-5 that has the same Bartolini pickups and pre in it as the MTD with the unusual "bolt through neck" joint. I have found what I believe to be the perfect tight yet warm and round tone among the many combinations available. With the blend set to 75% bridge-25% neck (in dual single coil mode), the EQ set at 60% percent boost on the bass, 70% boost on the treble, and 60% boost on the mid control (pulled out) and the preamp set to active I get one of the most beloved tones I have had in some time. Very tight and articulate, yet full of punch!
That being said there is something to a good JJ tone bass too so I think the only clear choice is for the OP to buy both and report back to us. I suggest which ever one he does not like be rapidly shipped off to me for which I will quietly shield it from further harassment on an internet forum.
I can't say it was necessarily the wood combo but perhaps just the wood on that particular bass. It would be tempting for me to dismiss all 535s with the same wood specs but I'm not sure that wood type was the issue. I'm sure there are other 535s out there in the same wood combo that would have worked for me.
FWIW, the several "pre-Gibson" Tobias basses had more variation in their tone than any other maker's basses I have checked out. Mike intentionally varies his woods and electronics to get quite different results.
The Sig5 I have had for the last 8 years sounds kind of like a cross between a Jazz Bass and a Thumb bass. Kind of a very percussive wood block growl. I've never heard another bass remotely like it. I'm still trying to decide if I like it or whether it is too extreme. Yup, 8 years on I am still making my mind up about it. Deep water.
The Sig5 I have had for the last 8 years sounds kind of like a cross between a Jazz Bass and a Thumb bass. Kind of a very percussive wood block growl. I've never heard another bass remotely like it. I'm still trying to decide if I like it or whether it is too extreme. Yup, 8 years on I am still making my mind up about it. Deep water.
It's a crapshoot any time you buy a bass without trying it first. I ordered a Sadowsky Jazz a couple of years ago and when I received it last year I knew within minutes that the tonal inconsistencies across the fretboard were a deal breaker for me, so back it went (at least Sadowsky has a seven day approval period).
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Which is why I wouldn't suggest anyone buying one without playing it in detail first, especially if there isn't any trial period involved...or any other bass for that matter...sure it's always gonna be a nice bass...anything leaving Mike Tobias' shop will be extremely well made, but I too have had to learn the lesson that it doesn't matter who made the bass, it still might not work for you..that's why you gotta do more than just a little research and NEVER get caught up in looks so much that you make a mistake.....a lot of these 535s and 635s that show up in the classifieds are from guys that bought it off of reputation only to find out they didn't like it and try to sell it here a few weeks later...happens all the time...the plus side of it is finding a great deal that's almost always right on time....
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Big plus one. It doesn't matter who made the bass - there is only so much control a luthier can have over the final product. And what bothers one person might not bother another. Instruments are too personal a thing to leave it up to chance if money and time are big issues for a buyer. This is one reason it is often a good idea to buy second hand if trying before buying is an impossibility.
Regarding looks, the last time I was at the Sadowsky shop was to return the Jazz I mentioned in a previous post. I'd looked at some of the basses they had in stock on their website before making the trip and had narrowed my trade-in options down to three gorgeous looking Jazzes. When I actually tried these basses at the shop none of them did it for me. I learned a lesson that day when I found that my favourite Jazz there was something I normally wouldn't have considered due to its looks. In the end, though, the bass that impressed me the most was a Modern - a model I was never previously interested in - and even that one was dull to look at compared to many of the other basses there. It's great to have a gorgeous looking piece of wood under your strings but, at this point, I've decided that it's best to choose my basses blindfolded!
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It's not an issue for me. I don't ever see me buying another high dollar boutique again. I will pick up another Jazz as a Christmas present to my self, but it is hard to screw up an ash or alder body Jazz.
There are a lot of variables in the wood and how a bass ends up sounding. Identical construction can sure end up sounding different. I was an Alverez dealer back in the 80's and I had two acoustics that were identical and these two guitars could not have sounded more different from each other than anything I ever heard.
Builders like Mike Tobias certainly hold a world of knowledge and can control things to a certain extent but there still is that variable of the wood and then add that to combinations of woods and you get an exponential increase in part of the process being a bit of a crap shoot. Though I doubt very seriously Mr. Tobias has made a dud in many years but he may have made some instruments that some like over others. We all have different tastes too. Back in the 70's,and 80's there was still quite a bit of experimentation going on as I'm sure there is today, the variables are endless.
I am a firm believer in how different woods react and sound both sonically, sustain, timbre, and percussiveness. Add to that variables in the same wood with increased variables in the combinations and there is quite a large amount of differing characteristics to be had out there in Bassdom.
Builders like Mike Tobias certainly hold a world of knowledge and can control things to a certain extent but there still is that variable of the wood and then add that to combinations of woods and you get an exponential increase in part of the process being a bit of a crap shoot. Though I doubt very seriously Mr. Tobias has made a dud in many years but he may have made some instruments that some like over others. We all have different tastes too. Back in the 70's,and 80's there was still quite a bit of experimentation going on as I'm sure there is today, the variables are endless.
I am a firm believer in how different woods react and sound both sonically, sustain, timbre, and percussiveness. Add to that variables in the same wood with increased variables in the combinations and there is quite a large amount of differing characteristics to be had out there in Bassdom.
