MTD titanium neck reinforcement.

[benthughes]

I've seen some MTD basses around that are using titanium reinforcement in the necks. The ones I have seen with this feature are maple necks. I know very little about MTD basses. Is this a standard feature on the USA MTDs? Do they only do this on select models? If this is part of the design how long have they been doing this? I've been skulking around the forum for a while and this is the first I've heard of it.

THanks!

 

[Lalo Garcia]

good question? Send Michael Tobias an email and ask him...he always answers! I just bought a 535 too, so please share the answer...mine has a maple neck with pistachio board.
Thanks buddy!

 

[bass12]

Most MTDs do not have titanium reinforcement. But I'll second the above comment and suggest that you email Mike (his address is on the MTD website).

 

[KJung]

Also, to the OP, remember that graphite or metal rods in a neck are not put there for strength or 'reinforcement', but rather to try to shift the neck vibration point (resonant frequency) to minimize dead spots.

There is pretty much nothing 'stronger' than a simple hard maple one piece neck.

I've found that including graphite or metal bars is a crapshoot with deadspots... I've never experienced a significant difference between necks with and without graphite or metal bars.

Again, has nothing to do with 'having to adjust them less' or strength or whatever according to most luthiers who use them.

 

[Lalo Garcia]

well may be it changes the resonant point, BUT the idea of inserting Graphite in a bass was to reinforce the neck. The first one to do it was Ken Smith back in the 70's and also Mike Tobias in the 70's too. The only purpose back then was to make the neck stronger, later they discovered it changes the resonance, but that was not theidea.
I have a Surine 7 string and the neck was a nightmare!! It would move front and back every day, it was virtually unplayable! I wrote Scott Surine a letter, and he asked me to ship the bass. He removed the fingerboard and installed 3 graphite bars inside , then he re-installed the fingerboard (all of this was free of charge!!); guess what? The neck has NOT moved nor needed adjustment since 2006!!! So it works, I personally have no doubt it works!
Thats why I was curios about Titanium....

 

[KJung]

well may be it changes the resonant point, BUT the idea of inserting Graphite in a bass was to reinforce the neck. The first one to do it was Ken Smith back in the 70's and also Mike Tobias in the 70's too. The only purpose back then was to make the neck stronger, later they discovered it changes the resonance, but that was not theidea.
I have a Surine 7 string and the neck was a nightmare!! It would move front and back every day, it was virtually unplayable! I wrote Scott Surine a letter, and he asked me to ship the bass. He removed the fingerboard and installed 3 graphite bars inside , then he re-installed the fingerboard (all of this was free of charge!!); guess what? The neck has NOT moved nor needed adjustment since 2006!!! So it works, I personally have no doubt it works!
Thats why I was curios about Titanium....

I think they most likely also found that it didn't really change the neck dynamic regarding stability, which is why most luthiers now talk about resonance when using 'reinforcement bars'.

The most stable necks I've ever owned where simple one piece flat sawn maple necks.

Anyway, I would never include 'reinforcement bars' as a primary driver of choosing an instrument.

 

[Hapa]

I have not heard of builders talking about reinforcement in necks in reference to tone. It has always been for stability, even with Ken Smith. Fender got on board so they could buy green wood for necks. Ken Smith with a multilaminate neck and carbon rods is overkill but how often do you hear of a wonky KS neck?
When KTS Titanium came to the market I read a lot about how it changed the resonance of the necks higher, nothing to do with carbon. I hear that Fender is starting to use the titanium on some instruments.

@KJung: Is that your Nordy neck?

 

[KJung]

I have not heard of builders talking about reinforcement in necks in reference to tone. It has always been for stability, even with Ken Smith. Fender got on board so they could buy green wood for necks. Ken Smith with a multilaminate neck and carbon rods is overkill but how often do you hear of a wonky KS neck?
When KTS Titanium came to the market I read a lot about how it changed the resonance of the necks higher, nothing to do with carbon. I hear that Fender is starting to use the titanium on some instruments.

@KJung: Is that your Nordy neck?

Not sure what you are referring to? The two necks I had that moved the most were my Ken Smith and my Fodera (IMO more due to the thin profile of those necks than anything else). The most stable necks I have experienced were, by far, the simple flat sawn one piece maple necks on my Alleva-Coppolo basses (no adjustments for years), and my three Sadowsky basses... two NYC's with graphite, and one Metro with no rods My Nordy P falls in the middle range (adjust when the seasons change), which is totally acceptable to me.

Roger Sadowsky notes that he uses rods specifically for an attempt to reduce dead spots.

+1 that way back when, the 'reinforcement rods' were conceptualized for stability in those super thin multilam necks. IME, didn't really work like they thought. I do agree that they might make a difference in really green wood or whatever. I have no experience with those types of basses.

Again, can't hurt, but I would never choose a bass or not choose a bass (especially a higher end bass) based in any way on whether it has rods or not.

 

[Lalo Garcia]

Hi
I also a Sadowsky modern 5 string bass from 1994,and the neck is super stable; How do you know if your Sadowsky has graphite rods or not? I know he has made some , but not many....
Regarding the Ken Smith and the Fodera: Fodera has never used Graphite rods as far as I know, and Not all Ken Smith basses have graphite either in the neck; Look for a "G" in the serial number or model number of your Smith bass, that will tell you if it has or not; or look for a third small Dot marker o the fingerboard on the 24th fret (if your Ken Smith bass was made before 1990), that will also tell you if it has graphite inside or not.
From my experience, Graphite helps! It really does hurt for sure...It saved my Surine bass!!

 

[KJung]

Hi
I also a Sadowsky modern 5 string bass from 1994,and the neck is super stable; How do you know if your Sadowsky has graphite rods or not? I know he has made some , but not many....
Regarding the Ken Smith and the Fodera: Fodera has never used Graphite rods as far as I know, and Not all Ken Smith basses have graphite either in the neck; Look for a "G" in the serial number or model number of your Smith bass, that will tell you if it has or not; or look for a third small Dot marker o the fingerboard on the 24th fret (if your Ken Smith bass was made before 1990), that will also tell you if it has graphite inside or not.
From my experience, Graphite helps! It really does hurt for sure...It saved my Surine bass!!

All current NYC Sadowsky models use rods to try to impact the dead spot that occurs on virtually every bass. Not sure when he started that... at least 8 years ago. The Metro's do not. No difference reported on 'Stability'.

My Smith did have grapite reinforcement bars, Fodera did not. My point was there seems to be no systematic difference in 'stability' between rod reinforced basses or not (i.e., there are virtually no systematic reports of 'low neck stability' in the mega threads of basses with no reinforcement bars).

Believe what you want of course. It was just be a shame to eliminate a bass from consideration based on IMO a misunderstanding of what those bars actually to (or try to do.... quite frankly, never noticed bar reinforced necks to have systematically fewer or weaker dead spots either).

Again, you seem to feel they are important, so buy what you are comfortable with. Paying a lot for the option.... it's your money I agree, can't hurt as far as I know.