MTD users - do you often use your bridge pickup solo'ed?

[Brad Johnson]

I find I can get a fat, nasty, and agressive tone from an MTD bridge pickup with an ash or poplar body. Naturally, it won't sound like a Jazz with single coils, but it will be as thick and fat as I need it, and I like everything very thick and fat. It's a bass, all the time!

I start by getting the bridge pickup as close as possible to the strings. I lower the neck pickup and then start raising the bridge pickup until I start getting wolf tones in the upper positions, on both the higher and the lower strings. This often requires a carved wooden shim under the pickup because the sponges or springs under there don't want to hold the pickup firmly at that height. I then drop the bridge pickup down a hair for insurance, so the magnetic pull won't adversely affect tone or sustain. Next I start raising the neck pickup until the "full neck" and "full bridge" blend positions are balanced the way I like it, on both the higher and lower strings.

With the amp's gain set for a clean, strong, non-distorted level, the bridge pickup is plenty punchy and muscular, especially when I use an aggressive right hand directly over the pickup itself. Burpy, cutting, with plenty of bottom. I'm surprised so many other players stay away from the full counterclockwise setting. It really tames peaks and boom for my crude technique! Different hands, I guess!

This brings up an excellent point.... pickup height. It's something most people, including some builders, don't really pay attention to and it can critically change the sound of the instrument. Good post.

 

[Giraffe]

Brad, I think pickup height is most important with lower output pickups like the Bartolinis. The character of the tone really changes when they punch your amp's preamp harder. This may not be the sound everyone is looking for, but it is always worth exploring. A thin sounding bass can often be perked up this way!

 

[Brad Johnson]

I've found it to be as important on most any bass I own.

BTW I wasn't aware that Barts were lower output... I've had them on several passive basses and they seemed to be in the same neighborhood as whatever stock pickups I replaced.

 

[tombowlus]

This brings up an excellent point.... pickup height. It's something most people, including some builders, don't really pay attention to and it can critically change the sound of the instrument. Good post.

+1

 

[cptnhook]

BTW I wasn't aware that Barts were lower output... I've had them on several passive basses and they seemed to be in the same neighborhood as whatever stock pickups I replaced.

The barts that Mike uses are custom made and distinct from "off-the-shelf" barts. It's possible that this is a characteristic specific to the custom MTD barts.

 

[KJung]

The barts that Mike uses are custom made and distinct from "off-the-shelf" barts. It's possible that this is a characteristic specific to the custom MTD barts.

+1 However, since the Barts Mike uses are very unusual active pickups, similar to EMG's, I've always assumed they were very high output, especially given the aggressive nature of the bass. Since, given the active pickup design, you can't ever put the bass in 'passive mode' there's no way to easily determine the pickup output versus the active pre output.

That being said, if you look at the pickup placement of the bridge pickup, it's REALLY close to the bridge. I'm guessing that has a lot do do with the wonderful, punchy sound when both pickups are on 'full', the aggressive sizzle and upper mid grind of those basses, and ,unfortunately, the rather weak 'bridge solo' pickup sound.

IMO.... the MTD's are so punchy, the mid control is so usable that this issue is somewhat of a moot point to me personally.

 

[Giraffe]

Now that I think about it, the blanket statement I made characterizing Barts as being lower output pickups is based on my experiences with only two models, the 8S and 9J's. The output of those pickups is indeed about the same as the stock Fender Precision and Jazz pickups they replace. I consider that lower output, since most of the aftermarket or boutique pickups seem to run a little hotter than the stock Fenders. Since I have no experience with the rest of the Bartolini line except in active offerings like the MTD's, Zons, and Roscoes, I really don't know how they compare in output with other roughly comparable units.

I should also add that the mid control gets boosted most of the time on mine. This helps avoid a thin tone with the bridge pickups soloed. I fantasize once in a while about a sweep pot to replace the frequency switch, but that is usually a sign that I have too much time on my hands. If he would only move the jack to a flush location...

 

[KJung]

Now that I think about it, the blanket statement I made characterizing Barts as being lower output pickups is based on my experiences with only two models, the 8S and 9J's. The output of those pickups is indeed about the same as the stock Fender Precision and Jazz pickups they replace. I consider that lower output, since most of the aftermarket or boutique pickups seem to run a little hotter than the stock Fenders. Since I have no experience with the rest of the Bartolini line except in active offerings like the MTD's, Zons, and Roscoes, I really don't know how they compare in output with other roughly comparable units.

I should also add that the mid control gets boosted most of the time on mine. This helps avoid a thin tone with the bridge pickups soloed. I fantasize once in a while about a sweep pot to replace the frequency switch, but that is usually a sign that I have too much time on my hands. If he would only move the jack to a flush location...

Just to be clear, the MTD Bartolini's are actually 'active pickups' (not to be confused with standard passive Barts in a bass with a preamp)... very different (from the information I have) from any other Barts, like those used in Zon's and Roscoes. I am one who TOTALLY dislikes Bartolini Humbuckers like those used in Roscoes and the Laklands. I LOVE the active Barts in the MTD's... totally different sound to my ear, and completely 'non Bartolini'. (note: I'm not saying the standard Bart's sound bad... just not my thing, and I have no experience with the newer Bart J style pickups which I understand are wonderful... but the MTD active Bartolini's are quite unique sounding and more toward the EMG spectrum of sound to my ear).

No big deal, but there always seems to be confusion regarding 'active vs. passive pickups', versus an on-board preamp defining an 'active bass', and that the Bartolini's in the MTD have anything to do with the 'classic' Bartolini sound

 

[Ari]

Alex> I didn't bother finding an alternate fingering for the riff, I just transposed everything from E to F, that's why it doesn't sound as smooth for the F part since there is a big "jump" involved to reach the low F.

Tom> Many thanks for this suggestion... I was totally overlooking this variable! I've raised the bridge pickup on my fretless and can definitely hear the difference - sounds way better to my ears

Kjung> I definitely agree... to me the Barts in the MTD sounds totally "non-bart" compared to other basses I've had or tried that used Barts (Elrick, Roscoe, older Warwicks, Lakland, Sukop). I usually don't care for the bart sound (that I would describe as "mellow") but the MTD sound is on a different league

 

[DrGroovenstein]

I've found it to be as important on most any bass I own.

BTW I wasn't aware that Barts were lower output... I've had them on several passive basses and they seemed to be in the same neighborhood as whatever stock pickups I replaced.

I agree! I struggled with pickup height on various basses for awhile. I ended up raising my bridge pickup significantly on my MTD. I'll measure it when I get home.

However, on my Bongo, I had to radically lower the pickups. The previous owner had them to what seemed a normal hight by "fender" standards, but it seriously affected the sustain and intonation of the B string. I thought something was REALLY wrong with that bass. Dropping the pickups by 1/4" or so was the ticket.

 

[Joelc73]

Just to be clear, the MTD Bartolini's are actually 'active pickups' (not to be confused with standard passive Barts in a bass with a preamp)... very different (from the information I have) from any other Barts, like those used in Zon's and Roscoes. I am one who TOTALLY dislikes Bartolini Humbuckers like those used in Roscoes and the Laklands. I LOVE the active Barts in the MTD's... totally different sound to my ear, and completely 'non Bartolini'.

I am in complete agreement with Ken on this one. Mike's pick-ups are a completely different breed of Bartolini.

 

[jokerjkny]

could be the preamp, cause currently, i have an aguilar 3 band installed in mine. i found the neutral / no EQ sound is significantly thicker than the neutral sound w/ the bart pre.

BUT, the aguilar's midrange pot and frequency selection is rather subtle and thin, and only at very drastic levels of cut and boost, does the midrange knob have any real affect on the overall sound.

kinda odd, cause w/ the original bart pre, i felt that the bass knob didnt give me a thick enough sound, while the midrange knob gave me what i wanted. and vice versa, the aguilar pre gave me that thickening bass knob, but the midrange was too subtle.

so, i'm strongly considering putting the original bart pre back, cause i might as well stick w/ the original 7 spices formula. besides, the mojo of the bass is very different from the original sound i fell in love with.

 

[KJung]

could be the preamp, cause currently, i have an aguilar 3 band installed in mine. i found the neutral / no EQ sound is significantly thicker than the neutral sound w/ the bart pre.

BUT, the aguilar's midrange pot and frequency selection is rather subtle and thin, and only at very drastic levels of cut and boost, does the midrange knob have any real affect on the overall sound.

kinda odd, cause w/ the original bart pre, i felt that the bass knob didnt give me a thick enough sound, while the midrange knob gave me what i wanted. and vice versa, the aguilar pre gave me that thickening bass knob, but the midrange was too subtle.

so, i'm strongly considering putting the original bart pre back, cause i might as well stick w/ the original 7 spices formula. besides, the mojo of the bass is very different from the original sound i fell in love with.

Ha! You did it I hear you on the Ag bass control... I had that preamp in my Drozd, and the bass control was the bomb. I agree the bass control on the MTD is different... seems to have a much wider Q and set to a lower center point. The mid control on the OB-3 is cool, but I heard what you are hearing... it seems to me there is a very narrow Q on that control versus the quite wide and impactful MTD mids (plus, you get than nice 250hz position.

What I don't particularly like on the OB-3 is that very high treble frequency (6.5k). While the MTD pre treble also has a lot of sparkle, it also has a lot of lower treble 'meat' to it. The OB-3 treble is pure 'click' to my ear.

 

[Brad Johnson]

The barts that Mike uses are custom made and distinct from "off-the-shelf" barts. It's possible that this is a characteristic specific to the custom MTD barts.

Probably. My MTD's output is noticeably lower than some of my other Bart basses. Still sounds great, I just need to turn the pre gain up a bit more.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Now that I think about it, the blanket statement I made characterizing Barts as being lower output pickups is based on my experiences with only two models, the 8S and 9J's. The output of those pickups is indeed about the same as the stock Fender Precision and Jazz pickups they replace. I consider that lower output, since most of the aftermarket or boutique pickups seem to run a little hotter than the stock Fenders. Since I have no experience with the rest of the Bartolini line except in active offerings like the MTD's, Zons, and Roscoes, I really don't know how they compare in output with other roughly comparable units.

I should also add that the mid control gets boosted most of the time on mine. This helps avoid a thin tone with the bridge pickups soloed. I fantasize once in a while about a sweep pot to replace the frequency switch, but that is usually a sign that I have too much time on my hands. If he would only move the jack to a flush location...

Slightly on topic: My first Tobias (a late 1970's) has a JHD Audio preamp that consists of a one band parametric EQ with Q toggle. Not my favorite setup. Careful what you wish for

I've found that I've been very happy with Bart preamps with some type of mid switch, be it a 3 way toggle a la Elricks or the push/pull switch on my Brubakers. Would it be nice to have more control? Maybe, on paper. At a gig or in the studio, who has that kind of time?

 

[Brad Johnson]

could be the preamp, cause currently, i have an aguilar 3 band installed in mine. i found the neutral / no EQ sound is significantly thicker than the neutral sound w/ the bart pre.

BUT, the aguilar's midrange pot and frequency selection is rather subtle and thin, and only at very drastic levels of cut and boost, does the midrange knob have any real affect on the overall sound.

kinda odd, cause w/ the original bart pre, i felt that the bass knob didnt give me a thick enough sound, while the midrange knob gave me what i wanted. and vice versa, the aguilar pre gave me that thickening bass knob, but the midrange was too subtle.

so, i'm strongly considering putting the original bart pre back, cause i might as well stick w/ the original 7 spices formula. besides, the mojo of the bass is very different from the original sound i fell in love with.

Tha Aggie OBP-3 is a different animal. I'm lucky enough to have a bass where I can swap out one with a Bart NTMB and back and do a pretty much instant comparison.

The Aggie is noticeably thinner in the mids, the bass control dials in a lot of lows with just a small tweak, similar to the Bart. With the Bart I can easily dial in speaker killing mids.

The funny thing is, while I initially preferred the Bart in this particular bass (and all of my other Brubakers) and haven't been blown away by other OBP-3 installs, in this bass I love it. The Aggie gives me that 70's Ash/Maple Jazz sound.

I guess you never know.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I agree! I struggled with pickup height on various basses for awhile. I ended up raising my bridge pickup significantly on my MTD. I'll measure it when I get home.

However, on my Bongo, I had to radically lower the pickups. The previous owner had them to what seemed a normal hight by "fender" standards, but it seriously affected the sustain and intonation of the B string. I thought something was REALLY wrong with that bass. Dropping the pickups by 1/4" or so was the ticket.

That's a long way. Probably some serious magnets.

I adjust mine by ear and so far have been lucky enough to not experience problems no matter how close I end up setting them.

 

[gfab333]

I usually use both pickups blended evenly.

 

[KJung]

Probably. My MTD's output is noticeably lower than some of my other Bart basses. Still sounds great, I just need to turn the pre gain up a bit more.

The lower output you notice is due to the preamp's trim pot adjustment. You can get in there and crank the trim pot up a little to match the output of your other basses if you want. Since Mike does not mention the trim pot in the documentation that comes with the bass (or at least he didn't when I received mine all those years ago), and since the battery compartment is separate from the control cavity, many don't realize this control exists.

 

[KJung]

I have one of the earliest MTDs. I remember looking for an adjustment and not finding one.

Ah... might just be on the later ones. I didn't even know mine had one until I played another one a while back and it had about 3 times the output as mine!