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Much needed help on PA setup *little experience & no sound guy*

D

DustinBass

Jul 6, 2008
30
0
Lafayette, Louisiana
www.myspace.com
#1
I'll be playing at a couple camps that I need to provide sound, but unfortunately we don't have much experience.
I'm hoping I to get some information on how to properly configure the gear we have now.

We'll be mic'ing guitars & drums, but what I mainly need help with is how to properly set up the mixer to the speakers & crossover.

Here's the gear we have:

Behringer PMP6000 Powered Mixer
dbx223xl crossover

2 15" peavey powered speakers as monitors
2 15" peavey unpowered speakers as mains
2 18" peavey unpowered subs

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
 
#2
Using only the stuff you have there:

Use the two amps in the powered mixer for tops and subs. I can only find a quick start guide for that thing, not a real manual, so I don't know what all the routing options are. I suspect you will end up wanting to put the crossover in the main mix insert.

Run the powered monitors off of aux sends.
 
#3
Manual here: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

They sort of fudge on the output power. On page 10 of the manual:
600 watts per channel at 4 ohms and 1%THD, 800 watts peak per channel and 1%THD

From what you tell us:
1) The tops should be ok on 800 watts IF they are 8 ohms and you parallel them
2) Suggest running the subs crossed between 160Hz and 200Hz with 12dB/Octave slope
3) Not sure if you have enough power, need more info
4) You may need a power amp

We need the unpowered speaker specifics:
Model number, ohms

The mixer seems to have decent capabilities(effects, feedback control, etc).

Guitars: SM58 or similar placed facing one of speaker cones directly between the outer edge and the dust cover cap.
Drums: minimum of 3 mics(bass drum EV RE20 or Sennheiser 421) and 2 condensors/phantom powered overheads. IF you want more, SM 58's work ok for the rest of the kit. Careful on the snare EQ. Consider putting ALL drum mics into one subgroup and running that group thru a comp/peak limiter enough to control it but not hear it working(breathing).

Bass: DI(pre EQ for body, bass tone...set the mixer with highs and mids cut a little for this DI) and mic. Use the mic signal for definition, clarity, and to get the player's tone into the mix.

Again, tell us which speakers and details on them.
 
#5
Change xover frequency to 180Hz. Slope is fine(24dB/Ocatave).

Subs and tops will be slightly underpowered but it can be done but only in mono without another power amp.

See page 6 of the Behringer link in previous post.
Also see picture below.
Monitors: feed from the mixer MON SEND

Pan all channels to right side to send a "Mono" feed.
Set the Xover to stereo but you only use channel 1. You will need 1/4"TRS-to-XLR patch cables from mixer to xover back to mixer "PWR AMP INSERT".

BehWiringRev0j.jpg


I still have no INSERT wiring info so you may need to ask the local Behringer guru's.
"What type of insert?"
"If you connect a 1/4" TRS what are the T-R-S inside the mixer wired to?"
The tip should receive the + from the xover but IS Behringer's insert TRS or TS and does it accept a balanced input?

Inserts can(IMO) be wired for an inline insert OR a "make or break" insert. We want the "make or break" kind so when you plug in your 1/4" from the xover into that, you are feeding directly into that power amp and doing so will not cause problems in the right channel of the mains(the 1/4" jack out to the xover).

I'll see if I can dig up the insert wiring.

From the power amp the left out goes to your subs and the right out to your tops.
The power amp switch on the mixer should be left in the top position(MAIN L......MAIN R).
 
#7
I have a pair of those PV118 subs. Try this...I run 2 passive 15 in 2 way mains(full range) with one sub piggy backed on each out of a 1200 watt powered mixer. Make sure you can do 4ohms per channel. You(hopefully) can run your monitors out of your monitor out channel. Those PVsubs may have a built in xover that would be OK with your power..IMO opinion.

When I use higher power amps I use a xover for the PV118's. Give it a go and see how ya like it.
 
#10
It's much preferred to stack the subs one on top of the other rather than separate them on each side of the stage. This minimizes interference issues with low frequencies and it makes a noticeable difference in sound quality for the audience.
 
#12
hbarcat said:
It's much preferred to stack the subs one on top of the other rather than separate them on each side of the stage. This minimizes interference issues with low frequencies and it makes a noticeable difference in sound quality for the audience.
Click to expand...

Awesome, I'll do that!

Here is the actual complete set up we'll be using (some things have changed):

We have 2 pairs of Peavey 15" for the tops (4 speakers total @ 8ohms each). So I only need to send the high's into the powered mixer.

We'll be running the subs through a Crown XLS1500, so I need the lows to go into that.

Here's a photo of the part of the solution I have so far.

xover.jpg



I'd like to know where I'll hook up the rest of the cables, and where I'll be hooking the cables to send to the subs.

Also, do I keep the xover freq @ x1 or x10? and mono/summed? or?

Thanks!
 
#14
From what you have so far it looks like you are running in stereo, adjust as needed if that is not the case.

Use the power amp inserts, send(probably tip) to the x-over input, return(probably ring) to the x-over high output. Same thing for stereo right and left. The internal power amps power the right and left tops.

Low output from the x-over right and left goes to the power amp. That powers the subs.

Aux sends go to the powered monitors.

The x10 changes the scale of the frequency knob on the crossover. When engaged the control sweeps from 450 Hz to 9.6 kHz, when not engaged it sweeps from 45 Hz to 960 Hz. So you are going to want it not engaged, I'd start with a frequency of 100 Hz.
 
#15
quilttopjazz24 said:
+1 -- one plus one equals four when you put the subs side by side or stack them thanks to a phenomenon called acoustic coupling.
:bassist:
Click to expand...
Think: + 3dB for "free" !!!

projectMalamute said:
Use the power amp inserts, send(probably tip) to the x-over input, return(probably ring) to the x-over high output. Same thing for stereo right and left. The internal power amps power the right and left tops.

Low output from the x-over right and left goes to the power amp. That powers the subs.
Click to expand...
Except he will need to be creative and split the XLR side since he's running full range into the XOVER INPUT and then the XOVER HIGH OUTPUT goes back into the insert return UNLESS he can feed from the MAIN 1 L and MAIN 2 R to the crossover input and feed the XOVER HIGH OUTPUT back the the INSERT.

The XOVER LOW output can go straight to the power amp inputs as stereo.
 
#16
Johnny Crab said:
Except he will need to be creative and split the XLR side since he's running full range into the XOVER INPUT and then the XOVER HIGH OUTPUT goes back into the insert return UNLESS he can feed from the MAIN 1 L and MAIN 2 R to the crossover input and feed the XOVER HIGH OUTPUT back the the INSERT.

The XOVER LOW output can go straight to the power amp inputs as stereo.
Click to expand...

You are both complicating things and not making sense to me. What would he be splitting and why?

insert point -> out to crossover -> high side goes back to the insert point and on to the internal power amps
-> low side goes to amp for the subs

The main mix outputs aren't being used for anything.
 
#17
quilttopjazz24 said:
There is very good information in the ElectroVoice Invalid Link Removed. The Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook is an awesome resource and you can read parts of it on line. Yorkville Sound's Invalid Link Removed are great too.

Hope this helps.

:bassist:
Click to expand...


I checked it out, and one thing actually confused me. I was planning on daisy chaining the 2 subs (each @ 8 ohms) and running the power amp in bridged mode. Is this feasible?
 
#20
The [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] so you should be OK running the two subs in parallel ("daisy-chained").

The available power will likely exceed what the Peavey subs can handle, so be careful.

What model are the four cabinets on top? It may not be realistic to expect two 18s to keep up with four mid-high cabinets.

:bassist:
 

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