Muddy Bass Sound - Please HELP

[Erik Turkman]

Here’s where I’d suggest starting. On the jazz bass, turn all knobs wide open. For clarity, you might try rolling off the neck pickup a little.

On the amp, set all EQ knobs to noon, and fully turn off any voicing filters, like VLE or VLF. Set master volume to noon. Set gain to 0 and turn up until you get a good level. Try adjusting EQ one knob at a time and really listen to the changes you hear. It helps to stand back a bit from the amp. Play along with a drum machine or recorded music that is playing through speakers to get a sense of what you will sound like in the mix.

Clarity in the bass lies in the midrange, so don’t cut it unless the sound is really boxy or too strident. While a scooped midrange might sound pleasant on your own, it won’t cut with a loud drummer. And by all means, protect your hearing.

 

[DanDBassist]

It has already been suggested to turn your guitar's volumes and tone all the way up but not really why. As passive volumes are turned down there is a loss of high end. After turning these up adjust your amp starting with each tone control flat. Passive instruments need all they can provide to the amp. Also, like already suggested, place your amp off the floor. Usually one 12" speaker is not enough (as mentioned earlier).

 

[TheSeagoats]

Generally speaking with pop punk is that you want the pickup knobs maxed out, maybe just the neck pickup on the jazz but that's personal preference. A really bright sound is what most pop punk bassists go for. My best pop punk tone is my P bass with a Seymour Duncan Quarter Pound and 45-105 prosteel strings, with a .63 or .80 gauge pick, both knobs completely up. You lose some high end when you turn down the volume knob, and you definitely lose it with the tone knob, which is probably what is making the muddy sound.

 

[bigdaddybass12]

1. Passive bass does not affect your issue. Some P basses can be muddy. If the jazz is muddy also the amp will be the cause.
2. Tone the drummer down. Get the leader to tell him. Any decent drummer will not have an issue.
3. Settings? Center the tone on the bass, on the amp: 1:00 on bass, 11:00 on mids 1:00 on treble. You need some treble to punch thru the mix. that is where a active eq bass can help. Or get a EQ pedal. I like centering the guitar tone so you can have a little flexibility each way while playing.
4. Like Mike just said, try a pick.
5. Play thru the sound system
6. Bigger amp, if you are young and have space in your car, get a bigger cabinet 1x15 or 4x10 & head. It will be heavy. You can find good ones at give away prices on craigslist. I had to almost give away a SWR 15" cab. Heads are cheap. I bought a Peavey tour 450 head as a backup head for $110.00 It is old & really cool,
Locally there is a guy who has a Peavey 1x15 cab, 2x10 cab, tour 700 head, all for $500. Been listed & updated a few times, he would probably go $450. You could hurt your drummer with that setup.

 

[sawzalot]

I think you have gotten yourself into a situation where your gain stages are pretty far off and your EQ settings are hurting, rather than helping, your sound. My advice would be to do a full reset:

1) put all your knobs on the amp at 12:00 except for the volume, which you should have turned down.
2) turn up both volume pots on your bass.
3) adjust gain on your amp so it's not clipping at the preamp (unless you want it to)
4) turn up volume.

At that point, make very small adjustments to your eq to make it sound the way you want it to.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Ok hopefully this is the right area to post. My first time posting.

Little bit of a backstory - Been in a band (Pop Punk/Pop Rock trio) for the last 4 years and love the music the guitarist is writing. However, the drummer plays so loud. This leads me on to my post.

I use a 4 string Fender Player Jazz bass (Rotosound 105-45 gauge) and a Mark Bass CMD 121H 400W 1 x 12 Bass Combo. I also do own a Fender Vintera 50s P bass and still have the same issue. Both basses are passive.

I have the neck and bridge pick up up about half way and the tone put up about a 3rd.

Due to the drummer being so loud I have to pretty much crank up the gain and volume pots on my amp to 90% (5 on a clock). I've had to turn bass pot all the way down because if I turn that up it sound even worse, I have turn turning volume and gain down when turn the bass up pot up ( to about 8/9 on a clock) it still sounds so muddy. I've explained that we are playing way to loud because if turn down the gain (10 on a clock) and volume (10 on a clock) and put the bass pot on to 8 on a clock it sounds so much better and clearer. I have the Low mid, high mid and high pot set no more than 11.

I really can't afford to buy a more powerful amp so I don't have to push it so hard. Is there any suggestions/advice for me to try with my equipment. Any pedals that might help with my EQ more.

I know the more I turn up the volume on my bass I am pushing the signal more to it threshold, the same with the amp. I have tried turning my pickups to about 75% and turned down the gain and volumeto about 3/4 on a clock. Still get the same issue.

My understanding of gain is that it not a volume control. It controls how much of the input signal can pass through, and the volume control will determine how much to amplifi that signal depending on what you have it set as.

You're using a practice amp. A 300w , 112, solo practice amp. You need another 12.

It would work just fine as a stage monitor for you, if you ran di out for your volume. But alone, it's a practice amp.

 

[funkinbottom]

Here’s where I’d suggest starting. On the jazz bass, turn all knobs wide open. For clarity, you might try rolling off the neck pickup a little.

On the amp, set all EQ knobs to noon, and fully turn off any voicing filters, like VLE or VLF. Set master volume to noon. Set gain to 0 and turn up until you get a good level. Try adjusting EQ one knob at a time and really listen to the changes you hear. It helps to stand back a bit from the amp. Play along with a drum machine or recorded music that is playing through speakers to get a sense of what you will sound like in the mix.

Clarity in the bass lies in the midrange, so don’t cut it unless the sound is really boxy or too strident. While a scooped midrange might sound pleasant on your own, it won’t cut with a loud drummer. And by all means, protect your hearing.

This^^ is sound advise (pun intended)

@Shippy0808, Welcome to talkbass. As you can see, there are many here to help. I have nothing to offer that hasn't already been posted. Just saying welcome, and enjoy your time here.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

My first thought is turn your pickup volumes both all the way up. Sounds like you’re not sending a strong enough signal to the amp. If you have to have your pickup volumes cut 50% and I’m not sure why you would, then try a boost pedal. My favorite is the TC electronic spark plug 4knob.

If he turns both pickups on full, it drops his output, and cuts his mids, which makes him quieter and muddier.

 

[aprod]

That is not enough amp for a band situation. An ext cab may help.

 

[LukeSlywalker]

If he turns both pickups on full, it drops his output, and cuts his mids, which makes him quieter and muddier.

I’ve moved on from jazz basses but I never experienced this. Granted, my current jazz has a pickup blend, not volume for each pickup. Highest output is with blend centered.

On a classic jazz with volume for each pickup, where is the highest output setting? I can’t imagine 50% on each would be the loudest. Happy to learn something new, though.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

Put the neck pu at 100%, bridge at 50%, tone at 75% and go from there.

Or try to find an affordable upgrade. I concur with many of the above that 1x12 ain't gonna cut it.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Ok hopefully this is the right area to post. My first time posting.

Little bit of a backstory - Been in a band (Pop Punk/Pop Rock trio) for the last 4 years and love the music the guitarist is writing. However, the drummer plays so loud. This leads me on to my post.

I use a 4 string Fender Player Jazz bass (Rotosound 105-45 gauge) and a Mark Bass CMD 121H 400W 1 x 12 Bass Combo. I also do own a Fender Vintera 50s P bass and still have the same issue. Both basses are passive.

I have the neck and bridge pick up up about half way and the tone put up about a 3rd.

Due to the drummer being so loud I have to pretty much crank up the gain and volume pots on my amp to 90% (5 on a clock). I've had to turn bass pot all the way down because if I turn that up it sound even worse, I have turn turning volume and gain down when turn the bass up pot up ( to about 8/9 on a clock) it still sounds so muddy. I've explained that we are playing way to loud because if turn down the gain (10 on a clock) and volume (10 on a clock) and put the bass pot on to 8 on a clock it sounds so much better and clearer. I have the Low mid, high mid and high pot set no more than 11.

I really can't afford to buy a more powerful amp so I don't have to push it so hard. Is there any suggestions/advice for me to try with my equipment. Any pedals that might help with my EQ more.

I know the more I turn up the volume on my bass I am pushing the signal more to it threshold, the same with the amp. I have tried turning my pickups to about 75% and turned down the gain and volumeto about 3/4 on a clock. Still get the same issue.

My understanding of gain is that it not a volume control. It controls how much of the input signal can pass through, and the volume control will determine how much to amplifi that signal depending on what you have it set as.

As was posted above, you need to sent the strongest signal from your instrument to the amp. I play a PB, as well as a Warwick corvette (active) with the volume and tone up all the way.

he next step, is to make sure you send the highest possible gain to the power side without distortion. The final step is your amp EQ. I set all my tone controls to flat, then you need to boost the frequency at about 165hz a bit. Use this when playing with the band.

The final step is to set the master volume. You will be amazed at how well you can hear your parts in the mix, clear and articulate. When playing by yourself, however you may was to roll in a little bass.

Best wishes and make sure you have hearing protection.

 

[Gustopher]

Get your amp higher up off the floor to start. After that, mids mids mids.

 

[mrjim123]

It sounds like you're asking a lot of a single 12" speaker, maybe too much, ESPECIALLY if you're not going into the PA. Try tweaking your settings as some have suggested before getting a second cab. If that doesn't work fire (or lobotomize) the drummer.

 

[JW56789]

Here’s where I’d suggest starting. On the jazz bass, turn all knobs wide open. For clarity, you might try rolling off the neck pickup a little.

On the amp, set all EQ knobs to noon, and fully turn off any voicing filters, like VLE or VLF. Set master volume to noon. Set gain to 0 and turn up until you get a good level. Try adjusting EQ one knob at a time and really listen to the changes you hear. It helps to stand back a bit from the amp. Play along with a drum machine or recorded music that is playing through speakers to get a sense of what you will sound like in the mix.

Clarity in the bass lies in the midrange, so don’t cut it unless the sound is really boxy or too strident. While a scooped midrange might sound pleasant on your own, it won’t cut with a loud drummer. And by all means, protect your hearing.

Shippy, Eric had this right. Essentially you want to 'start over' with the amp flat and the bass wide open. Any decent Jazz Bass with Rotosounds that are not dead yet should have lots of tone.

Put the amp controls to flat, and turn off those two emulation knobs. Run your bass wide open. Slowly bring up the input volume (the master is OFF at this point), play as you'd normally play on stage, and as the input on the amp comes up you will start to see that CLIP light blink intermittently. Stop right there, that's where you're on the edge of clean, any more will begin to add in distortion you can hear. Now bring your master up so you can hear everything, and slowly dial in your tone, trying not to max any one frequency range if possible, then turn the Master up to be loud enough (we hope).

This process will give you as much as the amp can give you for a given tone profile.

I'd also agree that a single 12 box in a LOUD band is fighting uphill all the way. The simple answer would be to add the MarkBass Traveler 121H cabinet (essentially what you have now without the built in amp). This will give you a noticeable boost in output and matching tone, and it's one of the extension cabinets MB recommends for your amp. You actually need the ext cab to get all 400w out of this rig. And cheaper than a new amp, etc. This would give you a welcome increase in firepower. And it will stack taller, and put the amp closer to your head, so you'll hear a bit better as well.

Been there done that, but once you get your tone straight, you need another cabinet in the worst way. A great amp, but your tractor . . . needs a trailer.

Best of Luck,

JW

 

[Frenchy-Lefty]

@OP

I stopped reading at "1x12 cab" since "punk rock" and single 1x12 cabs do not even belong to the same universe. The single 1x12 will work perfectly for your Enya/Celtic Music cover band though.

All your problems will be resolved by adding a 4x10 cab to your combo. It is that easy. And for reference, I have played in a Death Metal band with the exact same Markbass LMIII amplifier using a 4x10 cab. It was just OK. Then I added a second 4x10 and my sound with clear and powerful. 4x10 + 1x12 should do the job.

 

[Ewo]

First, welcome to Talk Bass!

I'm singing with the choir, here:

Wear earplugs. Your future self will be very glad you did.

A single 12 cab just ain't gonna be enough. That'll handle an acoustic coffeehouse gig, but that's not what you're doing. It's not so much a matter of amp power, but of speaker area. You need more paper to push more air.

 

[Wasnex]

I saw a great response in another fairly recent thread that I will parrot here: "Lower your expectations."

Sure there are all sorts of things you can do to make slight improvements, but the reality is it ranges from difficult, to impossible to get a great live bass sound. Learn to accept that you will rarely get great sound, and shoot for good enough. During sound check spend a reasonable amount of time dialing in the best possible sound. Then change perspective and focus on playing. People generally don't want to play with someone who is more focused on tweaking his/her rig than actually playing and getting the job done.

My suggestion is use the best gear you can, and learn something about acoustics and mix strategies. Also, strive to learn what actually happens when you make an adjustment to your gear. Consider intended consequences and unintended consequences. Here's what I mean: Many of the things you can do to improve your sound tend to be situational. In other words, a particular strategy might work in one situation, but not the next. For example, the strategy you use to get great sound on stage may have a really bad impact on house sound.

Music should be approached as a team sport where everyone is working together towards a common goal. IMHO if you are going to be a pro, the goal should be to deliver the best possible experience for the audience. Why? If you don't make the audience happy, you probably won't work very much. A consequence of this is you don't expect get exactly the sound you want on stage. If one person in the band forces the situation so they exactly what they want, it often means everyone else will have really bad sound. To be succinct: Improving quality in one position on stage often degrades quality elsewhere.

Consider the idea of making reasonable compromises. You need enough quality to do the job, but the priority should be on the audience's experience. That does not mean the audience gets perfect sound, but it does mean you make reasonable sacrifices to improve the quality from the audience's perspective.


Good luck!

 

[Auspuff]

Ok hopefully this is the right area to post. My first time posting.

Little bit of a backstory - Been in a band (Pop Punk/Pop Rock trio) for the last 4 years and love the music the guitarist is writing. However, the drummer plays so loud. This leads me on to my post.

I use a 4 string Fender Player Jazz bass (Rotosound 105-45 gauge) and a Mark Bass CMD 121H 400W 1 x 12 Bass Combo. I also do own a Fender Vintera 50s P bass and still have the same issue. Both basses are passive.

I have the neck and bridge pick up up about half way and the tone put up about a 3rd.

Due to the drummer being so loud I have to pretty much crank up the gain and volume pots on my amp to 90% (5 on a clock). I've had to turn bass pot all the way down because if I turn that up it sound even worse, I have turn turning volume and gain down when turn the bass up pot up ( to about 8/9 on a clock) it still sounds so muddy. I've explained that we are playing way to loud because if turn down the gain (10 on a clock) and volume (10 on a clock) and put the bass pot on to 8 on a clock it sounds so much better and clearer. I have the Low mid, high mid and high pot set no more than 11.

I really can't afford to buy a more powerful amp so I don't have to push it so hard. Is there any suggestions/advice for me to try with my equipment. Any pedals that might help with my EQ more.

I know the more I turn up the volume on my bass I am pushing the signal more to it threshold, the same with the amp. I have tried turning my pickups to about 75% and turned down the gain and volumeto about 3/4 on a clock. Still get the same issue.

My understanding of gain is that it not a volume control. It controls how much of the input signal can pass through, and the volume control will determine how much to amplifi that signal depending on what you have it set as.

There is a reason why John Entwistle had a wall of cabinets, behind him, and he played really loud.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I’ve moved on from jazz basses but I never experienced this. Granted, my current jazz has a pickup blend, not volume for each pickup. Highest output is with blend centered.

On a classic jazz with volume for each pickup, where is the highest output setting? I can’t imagine 50% on each would be the loudest. Happy to learn something new, though.

With any instrument with two pickups, the highest output setting is one on full, one off.

That's why guitarists use switches. They dissappear if two pickups are on.