Welcome! 2 thing you will hear here a lot.
1. get a HPF
2. Fire the drummer
1. get a HPF
2. Fire the drummer
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Muddy Bass Sound - Please HELP
- Thread starter Shippy0808
- Start date
Uhhh Not true !! If the PU's are out of phase they will tend to cancel in phase they combine , there are lots of other things going on but this is basic electronics facts . how close they are to each other matters as well , my strat has the center PU ' out of phase on purpose to give a scooped mid tone , that clean strat sound crystal top end etc. it is switchable also. FYI not trying to argue here.
JeezyMcNuggles
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- Feb 23, 2018
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- 20,970
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- I suck, but nobody really notices
It also happens when they're in phase. Except that when they are in phase with eachother, it doesn't drop to an unusable level. It just scoops the mids, and drops slightly.
It's common knowledge. That's the jazz bass sound. Scooped, and quiet.
I have same amp played with Loud Blues, Southern and Classic Rock Band with very loud dynamic Drummer
Had all controls set at noon Gain at 1 O' Clock, Bass Guitar Volume and Tone at full up never had to go past 10 O' Clock for rehearsal or Gig's at typical Small/Medium sized Bar/Clubs no FOH; I use 'Ampwedge' to angle speaker up at me.. I have extension Cab if needed for Larger Club.
Not sure what's going on with your Band;[but hope I don't have to
] Your amp is NOT a practice amp as some suggest it is good for most Bar/Club Gig's small to medium.
An extension Cab should help; see if store will allow you to try and if that doesn't fix problem your Band is playing in a realm I am unfamiliar with or super large clubs.
You may have to go with 800 watt amp with 2x10 and 1x15, 2x15 or 6x10. But that will get expensive hopefully Extension cab works. Also any Little Mark head will fit in Combo so maybe replace 500w head with LM 800 along with adding Extension NY 121 or 121HR EVEN 151P OR 2X12 [8OHM]
PS; A HPF filter is a great Idea also and lay off VLE AND VPF Live rehearsal and Gig's also you may have popped your tweeter give it a check.
Had all controls set at noon Gain at 1 O' Clock, Bass Guitar Volume and Tone at full up never had to go past 10 O' Clock for rehearsal or Gig's at typical Small/Medium sized Bar/Clubs no FOH; I use 'Ampwedge' to angle speaker up at me.. I have extension Cab if needed for Larger Club.
Not sure what's going on with your Band;[but hope I don't have to
] Your amp is NOT a practice amp as some suggest it is good for most Bar/Club Gig's small to medium.An extension Cab should help; see if store will allow you to try and if that doesn't fix problem your Band is playing in a realm I am unfamiliar with or super large clubs.
You may have to go with 800 watt amp with 2x10 and 1x15, 2x15 or 6x10. But that will get expensive hopefully Extension cab works. Also any Little Mark head will fit in Combo so maybe replace 500w head with LM 800 along with adding Extension NY 121 or 121HR EVEN 151P OR 2X12 [8OHM]
PS; A HPF filter is a great Idea also and lay off VLE AND VPF Live rehearsal and Gig's also you may have popped your tweeter give it a check.
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Yep can definitely help.
Although I am blessed with a drummer with great restraint, I also find these soo useful to deal with other muddy predicaments. Namely, clubs with bad sound either the PA or the room.
i use the simple one
https://www.broughtonaudio.com/product-page/always-on-high-pass-filter
Although, it might seem counter intuitive to roll off bass frequencies to make the bass louder, the main parts you really ‘hear’ are at least above your fundamental, so 40ish Hertz if youre on a four string. But some rooms will even fair better with a much more aggressive roll off. It isnt like it totally takes away the frequencies at the point you set it. Search ‘eq slope’ to get some idea of this.
Add a clean preamp pedal. A reliable example is MXR M81 Bass Preamp. Run it as a boost. This pedal though is not a good distortion. There are other options for this, not mentioned here.
https://www.jimdunlop.com/content/manuals/M81.pdf
https://www.jimdunlop.com/content/manuals/M81.pdf
Here are a few things for you:
• 1.Turn all the control knobs on you Jazz all the way up. Being a passive bass and using grease-pot controls, there is no boost. If you turn anything down from wide open, it just cuts and keeps cutting. Run them all the way up. You want the most out of your bass and IMHO the Jazz sounds best with everything dimed anyhow.
• 2. boost your low mids to somewhere between 1 and 2 o'clock. The center of your low-mids frequency is 360Hz, which is a good low-mids frequency. If you boost it too much your sound will honk at you. If that happens, just slowly turn down the boost until the honking goes away. The low-mids give your bass presence and definition in the mix. Leave everything else flat and be sure the VLE and VPF filters are turned off or they will kill your mids.
• 3. To set your gain to optimum, turn down your master or turn it off and then turn your gain up half way. If that clip light next to the gain doesn't light up, slowly turn it up until that light dances when you play your lowest and loudest notes. You don't want it to stay off and you don't want it to always stay on. You want it to dance as you play. That will send the strongest and clearest sound to your power section for it to amplify. Once you have it set, go ahead and turn up the Master to a comfortable level.
• 4. Honestly you are going to need a second cab before you are going to be comfortable with the group you are playing with. Your 500-watt amp puts out 300-watts into its internal speaker, adding the extension cab will let your amp put out 500-watts splitting it 50/50 between your speakers. Looks like you can get an AMS 121H extra cab without a tweeter, which is probably what you'd want. You don't need more than one tweeter with a 212 set up. Add that to your CMD 121H and you should be heard. Looks like they run a little more than half the price of your combo.
Good Luck!
First thing to do is have a band meeting and tell the drummer he/she has to tone it down. Second thing you have WAY too small of an amp to keep up with a loud bashing drummer who probably also has zero dynamics as they usually go hand in hand. Also if the drummer is playing loud it's a given the guitarist is too. So now you're the one that doesn't cut it in the mix. All you are using is a single 12 combo amp it's never going to get you what you need. So in the meantime always use the bass volume all the way up and the tone wide open full treble. Note:If you open both volumes all the way with a Jazz bass it will get lower in output and have a slightly thinner sound with both pup's dimed. It's the nature of the way a jazz bass sounds. If you want more bite solo the bridge pup, add mids to your amp (mids are a bassist's best friend) and back off the lows. If you need more bass solo the neck pup. If you do have both pup's dimed, slightly back off the neck volume to get more bite and slightly back off the volume on the bridge to get more lows. I personally never cared for the burp type tone of a Jazz bass bridge pup but it does cut through. I've always used P basses but do own a Jazz just because. If you guys have a decent PA let it carry the low end. If not crank your rig till it at it's max without pushing it into distortion (kills speakers) and tell the rest of the band to match you for overall mix.
A musician and/or a band doesn't have to be hella loud to make music. I've run into the drummer, guitarist or both too loud situation many times in the past and trust me it never works well for a bassist. You will keep adding cabs and watts till it's nothing but a volume war. When all everyone has to do is just turn down, get dynamics, save ears and let the PA do the work. That's what it's there for. I hope you get it all worked out.
A musician and/or a band doesn't have to be hella loud to make music. I've run into the drummer, guitarist or both too loud situation many times in the past and trust me it never works well for a bassist. You will keep adding cabs and watts till it's nothing but a volume war. When all everyone has to do is just turn down, get dynamics, save ears and let the PA do the work. That's what it's there for. I hope you get it all worked out.
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Welcome to TalkBass!!!!!
First we'll start with the least important things.
1) Volume and tone all the way up on your bass. There is simply no reason not to. If you like more mid punch dial back the neck pickup a little.
2) Put your mids back in your tone. Scooped tones (all lows and high) might sound great in the bedroom. But they are usually garbage in a band setting.
3) High Pass Filter. Get one. Chop off your sub lows with it.
That said, there is absolutely nothing you can do to win a volume war without more speaker surface area. You can't make that 12" speaker ANY louder. Period. You need another cave. Period. End of story. Find a cheap used cab. It's the only way to increase your volume Amy measurable amount. TRY ANY CAB WITH YOUR RIG BEFORE YOU BUY IT. Due to potential phase cancelation and several other factors, sometimes cabs do NOT work well together. Two cabs can actuality sound worse than one. So if you find a good deal, make sure you can bring your rig and try them out together before buying.
If you really can't afford anything at all, your first order of business is to put the mids back into your tone and turn up your bass volume AND tone.
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Volume pots on the basses all the way up... This is a team effort between the basses and the amp, with the volumes on the basses all the way up (on the J-Bass you can play with this but not both volume pots half way), you will have to refine where required with the amp controls.
If more clarity is desired, I would back off on one of the pickups. Not 75% though. Usually after you rotate one of the volume controls a few degrees CCW, the associated pickup stops having any discernable impact on the tone.
Of course results varies with how you have the pickup height set. I usually set the height for equal volume from each pickup. So when both volumes are full on, you get cancellation in the mids that tends to reduce clarity and focus. Some people like this sound, but I typically don't.
On most basses I prefer to slightly favor the bridge pickup. However, my #1 since about 1995 has been a Yamaha TRB6P. On this bass I prefer to slightly favor the neck pickup.
This Markbass 102hf is a great cab to sit under your amp. Will just about double the work your amp can do, will raise your combo amp up, and with added speakers your amp will sound more substantial. I'd look for a used one.
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I haven't read all the responses yet. But I didn't see anybody mention a pre-amp with a HIGH-PASS-FILTER. It's kinda counterintuitive; but there are frequencies that are "muddy" because they both require a lot of amp energy to output and they don't offer any sound improvement because they are too low to hear. I would definitely explore pre-amp w high-pass-filter.
Wow, bunches of issues come to mind reading the OP…
1) Turn your pickups ON! I can see tapering off a pickup or tone knob to achieve a specific tone but generally, run them up.
2) Get a second cab not, another amp. You need to move air! A lower wattage amp through a lot of speakers can be heard across town without (generally) worrying about blowing a cab.
3) Turn up the middle frequency band to 1-2:00
Lastly, wear earplugs and GET THE HELL OFF MY LAWN.
edit: as @Seth Shonefeld said, get an HPF.
1) Turn your pickups ON! I can see tapering off a pickup or tone knob to achieve a specific tone but generally, run them up.
2) Get a second cab not, another amp. You need to move air! A lower wattage amp through a lot of speakers can be heard across town without (generally) worrying about blowing a cab.
3) Turn up the middle frequency band to 1-2:00
Lastly, wear earplugs and GET THE HELL OFF MY LAWN.
edit: as @Seth Shonefeld said, get an HPF.
