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Multi-band compression: We can, but should we?

What an impressive rig.

Did you send the two channels to FOH separately or did you mix them for FOH?
Low side has a dedicated DI that goes right to the desk while the high side cab gets mic'd like a guitar cab. It helps capture the character of the "voice" that the Eden has, but it also helps keep the overdrive sounding more organic. If you DI those drive pedals it can get pretty harsh sounding. You really need to capture it at that speaker for the natural high end roll off it provides. I also always keep the tweeter turned down all the way. The drivers in the Eden cab have a really sweet high-end all on their own.

Edit: it's also nice to let the FOH guy mix the two signals on his end so he can optimize what the audience is getting
 
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With multiband, you get more spectral independence (louder harmonics on low notes, more detail) but possibly at the cost of cohesion, where the note starts to feel like layers instead of a single event. Curious how others hear this: does multiband make your bass sound clearer, or does it start to feel a bit… disassembled?

It works for me. I use the one knob multiband compressor TonePrint in my TC BH250 and it sounds great…I’m sure it’s digital. It does sound better to me than the single band compression TonePrint.

It’s the first time I've regularly used compression after more than four decades of gigging. I tried compression pedals years ago and didn't like the results.

Not sure why you think it would sound like layers. Like any other compressor, choosing one you like is important.
 
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I find a multiband compression to generally, when used in moderation, provide a more natural sounding result.
particularly with my bowed string instruments, I find it tends to sound more how it does in the room after mild multiband compression.

This is how I use it as well. Multi-band isn't at the top of my list for every gig but it really makes the fretless with upright IRs sound more natural when it's all blended together.
 
I've been using a TC spectra comp for years now. Set to work as a 3 band comp with different attack/release times for each band. Knob is mapped for input gain for all 3.

It's always on at the end of the pedLOL board as a mastering comp/ catch all. It's set to be subtle but it works better than a single band there for me.
 
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Why is it problematic if it is decidedly true ?
Because, IME, it is often being used (especially here on TB) to discourage others from using certain devices.

"No effects" crowd uses it to discourage use of effects in general...
..."no compression" crowd uses it to discourage use of compressors...
...and now it is being used to discourage use of dual-band compressors...

Btw: I wouldn't dare to use the phrase "it is decidedly true" on a discussion forum... I am aware that what I post is only my opinion...and that I might be proven wrong on some occassions. I wouldn't try to put my opinion over yours by using such a phrase. But that's just me...

If you compress a boomy section of your tone without taking out the boom first, then you're just leaving the boom and reducing its dynamic range, so EQ (like a HPF) might be the better solution, period.
Remember, "better" is subjective in music. Several people might not agree what is the better solution...

You are shaping the tone to fix a problem

No, I am shaping the tone to make it sound the way I want

At some level, it's just semantics. If you wish, I can formulate the "problems" which I am fixing with my dual band compressor. I just think that it is an unneccessary mental excecise. It should suffice that I like what the comp does to my signal.
 
Have you tried this pedal? It even displays a spectrogram.
No, but from my experience with the rack, it would be a pain to monitor gain reduction, bend over to adjust on the floor, then stand up and play again to recheck. I mean the pedal exists, so it's clearly useful to some, I just wouldn't want to deal with complex compression parameters down by my feet.

Alllllllso, it's a lot to deal with for little pay off. I use both sides of my rack because I already have them and overdrive can get really squashed when you set a single side compressor to sound "good" with low end. The two are so far apart in their needs, that doing this made sense for me. If I was just using a single channel amp running mostly clean, I wouldn't bother with any of this. In fact, often times in the studio I'll end up just using a DI and some single channel rig like an SVT or whatever the studio has for simplicity and let the engineer simulate all my rack stuff on his end. I do haul my rig in, but maybe use it 50% of the time. I'd rather use the Distressor or 160A, etc that's in the studio desk than my middle-of-the-road PA compressor I lug around with me.
 
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Because, IME, it is often being used (especially here on TB) to discourage others from using certain devices.

"No effects" crowd uses it to discourage use of effects in general...
..."no coompression" crowd uses it to discourage use of compressors...
...and now it is being used to discourage use of dual-band compressors...

Btw: I wouldn't dare to use the phrase "it is decidedly true" on a discussion forum... I am aware that what I post is only my opinion...and that I might be proven wrong on some occassions. I wouldn't try to put my opinion over yours by using such a phrase. But that's just me...


Remember, "better" is subjective in music. Several people might not agree what is the better solution...



No, I am shaping the tone to make it sound the way I want

At some level, it's just semantics. If you wish, I can formulate the "problems" which I am fixing with my dual band compressor. I just think that it is an unneccessary mental excecise. It should suffice that I like what the comp does to my signal.

Speaking only for myself, saying 'it is decidedly true' is not intended to discourage, but rather to ENCOURAGE pragmatic experimentation to figure out if it truly does what you want it to do - and to manage expectations for people to not assume that a multiband compressor will accomplish what one wants without adding EQ somewhere in the mix... or possibly relying just on EQ alone. It is generally encouraged to try EQing something first by cutting a problem area, then examine if the situation still needs compression. It's a complex and powerful piece of processing gear which can get very frustrating and may lead one down a different path than they intended, depending on where crossovers, attack/release settings, etc are set.

My advice in saying 'it is decidedly true' comes from hundreds of hours in the studio mixing and mastering and using multiband compressors in a very 'laboratory-like' environment so I can really hear what is happening, and if it's doing what I want it to do. So when I (and others) say 'it's a tool to fix specific problems', it's because we know from experience. The right tool for the right job is key. In general practice, multiband compressors are a specialized tool. When you ask for people's experiences and impressions and real-world experience, expect to get responses which may counter your original premise. Happens to me all the time.

"If you compress a boomy section of your tone without taking out the boom first, then you're just leaving the boom and reducing its dynamic range, so EQ (like a HPF) might be the better solution, period."

I did not make a declarative statement that ONLY EQ would be the better solution. I literally said it MIGHT be the better solution (period). So I did indeed leave the subjectivity up to the tinkerer, and I encourage that kind of experimentation. It's also noteworthy that many full-featured compressors of all stripes often include (mostly in studio rackmount units), EQ that can be set to pre/post compression for this very type of A/B'ing.

Good luck.
 
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Multiband compression is where it's at, but it's also a lot to worry about live. I have the benefit of doing this with a rack comp that is easy to adjust on the fly, but doing it with one pedal that has settings you have to scroll through might be a lot of headache. I doubt most people would really be able to tell the difference between a traditional single ended comp and a multiband unit - player and audience both.

This is a huge part of deciding whether a multiband comp is practical for one's use.... especially live. IMO this is the best solution - a full featured rackmount multiband compressor with ALL features readily available, like one would have in the studio. Nice setup!
 
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So when I (and others) say 'it's a tool to fix specific problems', it's because we know from experience. The right tool for the right job is key. In general practice, multiband compressors are a specialized tool.

Any tool, even basic EQ, is a "specialized tool". Bottom line is that multiband will provide a more natural result than single band. The difference may be insignificant at times, but that doesn't mean it's wrong to use multiband. Of course the caveat is "when used correctly", but that applies to every part of the chain, including the bassist's fingers. So while we should acknowledge that multiband is more difficult than single-band, I'd prefer to assume that the operator knows how to use it.

I also disagree with "fix specific problems". Same as EQ, compression (multiband or otherwise) can be used because it's wanted, even if it is not needed.

I suppose it's a matter of context. As a studio engineer, your focus will be fixing problems. For performing bassists, it's about making our ears happy (along with supporting the band by sitting well in the mix, etc). I'm cool with the sound of my bass run thru my amp set "flat", but flat is never flat (outside of the studio, anyway), and there's nothing wrong with tweaking tone and dynamics to make your ears happier regardless of the quality of your rig.
 
Just to add (since it's too late to edit my previous post)...

I said i use Multi-band Compression when Mastering. But sometimes i'll also put a single-band compressor in the signal chain somewhere after the Multi-band. Again, because they're two different tools that do different things.

- The multi-band helps target different ranges in the spectrum to apply compression as needed to them. Different parts of the spectrum have different compression needs and you can treat them independently.
- The single-band helps everything in the mix become one cohesive unit. It's like a glue that takes a mix of different instruments and makes it a single song. (And if you use it properly, the mix and individual instruments will still breathe an shine on their own at the same time.)

Both of these, especially when used in conjunction with one another, especially when used judiciously and transparently, are extremely useful.

But, my point is, Multi-band and Single-band compression are two different tools that do different things. Multi-band isn't a magic tone enhancer. One isn't better than the other. They just have different purposes with different strengths and can be used accordingly.
Absolutely. My typical mastering chain has a single band first in line before anything else for a little "glue", then there's a multiband, and then at the end a limiter. In between all that are various EQs depending on the material. All three control dynamics, but do a different job.
I can't recall the last time I used a multi-band comp on bass when mixing, I usually just get where I want with single-band, but I go for a pretty trad approach.
 
Any tool, even basic EQ, is a "specialized tool". Bottom line is that multiband will provide a more natural result than single band. The difference may be insignificant at times, but that doesn't mean it's wrong to use multiband. Of course the caveat is "when used correctly", but that applies to every part of the chain, including the bassist's fingers. So while we should acknowledge that multiband is more difficult than single-band, I'd prefer to assume that the operator knows how to use it.

I also disagree with "fix specific problems". Same as EQ, compression (multiband or otherwise) can be used because it's wanted, even if it is not needed.

I suppose it's a matter of context. As a studio engineer, your focus will be fixing problems. For performing bassists, it's about making our ears happy (along with supporting the band by sitting well in the mix, etc). I'm cool with the sound of my bass run thru my amp set "flat", but flat is never flat (outside of the studio, anyway), and there's nothing wrong with tweaking tone and dynamics to make your ears happier regardless of the quality of your rig.


'Multiband will provide a more natural result than single band'

Perhaps - if there are specific issues with your signal and how it's split which need to be addressed, and you absolutely know that you must accomplish it with a multiband compressor after extensive experimentation. That will depend on your goals and setup, but I wouldn't make that a categorical statement intended to steer people toward multiband compression as a first option. I can't agree categorically that a multiband compressor will be 'more natural' than a single band because the context of the situation will define whether it's the most natural, or the best solution.

There is so much misconception and confusion about using even a standard compressor that a multiband compressor can be viewed as either three powerful, separate ways to make fine tuned adjustments to solve whatever problems may be present (or to allow you to 'customize' your sound to your heart's content).... or they could be three separate ways to make things worse. I'm a Star Trek fan and I always think about Mr. Scott and this quote from Star Trek III where he's commenting on how complex the USS Excelsior's transwarp drive is, but how easy it was to sabotage it: 'The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain.'

The hope is that the operator knows how to use it, but I remember how much of a learning curve I went through when first learning to use a multiband compressor in the studio. In a live setting, one might not have the opportunity to dig in to the degree that it usually requires to really hone in on the specific settings that might yield the most benefit, because with crossovers, attack/release ratios, boosts/cuts, etc in a lot of multiband units, there's a LOT going on.

Yep - we can use EQ or compression simply because we want to. But sometimes what we want doesn't always work in a given situation. It can create new problems which need solving. So we're back around to where we started.... sometimes.

Here's a perfect example of why I use the 'fix specific problems' phrase a lot:

My double bass with its Realist pickup has the usual piezo pickup 'problem areas' in the signal which present as harshness in the mids, and often a bloated bass range. I use my Radial ToneBone PZ Deluxe to 'solve the problems' with impedance matching, and to smooth out the EQ points before it ever hits my amp or the front of house so that I already know I'm approaching the overall 'natural' tone I'm seeking. That often includes using the HPF portion of the preamp, the sweepable mids, a slight cut in the bass, and a slight bump in the top end. There's also an Aguilar DB316 midrange EQ pedal that I can use to fine tune another additional problem area in the mids if necessary. The goal is that when I hit my amp, I have to use very little of its EQ section to fine tune to the room... which usually involves a few more very specific yet small changes to the low mids. I'm lessening the 'problems' I have to solve in the room and with my desired tone before I ever turn the amp on - hopefully. So when I say 'fixing specific problems', that's the kind of stuff I mean. I'm not trying to be pedantic for the sake of being pedantic. And I rarely, if ever, use a compressor live with my double bass or electric rigs... mostly just in the studio. YMMV.

Our work in the studio and playing live should feed and inform each context. Every new challenge adds to the toolbox of knowledge. It's my job to make my ears happy (and my clients' ears) in both instances, and some of the nitpicky stuff I would try in the studio I won't deal with live - it's simply not worth it in most instances, due to the number of factors in a given room out of my control. Context matters for sure.
 
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But could multi-band be breaking something subtle and musical ("natural" sounding)? Traditional single-band compression ties the fundamental and its harmonics together, so when the low end gets compressed, everything moves as one coherent “object.” That coupling might actually be part of what makes bass feel deep, unified, and “instrument-like.”

With multiband, you get more spectral independence (louder harmonics on low notes, more detail) but possibly at the cost of cohesion, where the note starts to feel like layers instead of a single event. Curious how others hear this: does multiband make your bass sound clearer, or does it start to feel a bit… disassembled?

As many others have said: there are potential negatives and artifacts to anything you do to your signal, and that includes using basic EQ. The bottom line: multiband is more versatile than single band, and can solve more wants and needs. Now as I mentioned previously, the difference isn't always significant or even noticeable. So, if you're happy with single-band, then there's no reason to add complexity.

My personal experience: I was never completely happy with single-band compression back when I was rack rigging (I owned units from Ashly, dbx, Symetrix). Then I acquired the Rane DC-24 dual-band compressor, which was perfect for me. I used it until I stopped rack rigging over a decade ago.

This is well worth noting: I went to pedals after I stopped rack rigging. I did my research and chose the original Empress Compressor (single-band). The epiphany for me was its Mix knob: a clean blend, formally known as "parallel compression". None of the consumer-grade rack compressors I was aware of had the parallel feature. Clean blend allowed me to dial in my barely-there compression more easily and about as effectively as multiband. As noted I'm familiar with multiband compression and do get GAS for a multiband pedal comp from time to time, but so far I've stuck with single-band compressors that have clean blend because they've worked so well for me.
 
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Is multi-band compression a useful tool for what it does? Yup.
Is multi-band compression a must-have, necessary part of every bassist's signal chain? Not really.
Is standard single-band compression a must-have, necessary part of every bassist's signal chain? Also, not really.

IMHO from my audio engineering background, musicians have a hard enough time understanding and properly employing single-band compression. Asking them to do that across multiple bands AND have the result both musical and solving an actual audio issue is asking a lot. And if the harmonics are getting so noticeably crushed by the fundamental frequency and destroying your tone, you're not setting up your single-band compressor properly. Having more bands at your disposal just means setting up 3 or 4 compressors poorly.

I only ever use multi-band compression when i'm mastering full mixes. Just because i only ever use it there doesn't mean it should only be used there. It's not some sort of rule that you can't find it useful elsewhere. But i find, personally, its usefulness is limited beyond that.

A lot of times it seems like musicians treat audio tools as solutions in search of problems, and point out in theory why features on gear is going to be better. But really, if you're using sing-band compression and you're not running into any issues that multi-band compression would solve, you don't really need it. And really, you might not even need the single-band compression unless your dry signal has an issue that the compressor can address.

All that said, if you have a multi-band compressor, and you can set it up well enough to address the needs of your signal and it sounds good, you're not doing any harm. (To reiterate, you're not doing any harm if it's set up properly and sounds good. The "sounds good" bit is the most important there. It's music. If it sounds good, it sounds good.) It could be overkill and it could be unnecessary, and it could be the exact tool you need. It really depends on how things sound without it.

Ultimately, a Multi-band compressor is a great tool to have if you need it. But need is a strong word, in my decades of playing, engineering, and producing, i've only really found it all that useful for Mastering, or occasionally some bizarre FX chain that mangles audio in a new fun way. $0.02

This should be a sticky. Kudos.
 
Maybe a stupid question, but I am curious, are there examples where multi-band compression is used to make the bass sound 'not natural' on purpose? Of course there is squishing the bass signal 'flat' to get a synthy sound, but how about multi-band, is there something weird that is actually desired?

I mean, in the past distortion was a problem that needed to be fixed because it was unwanted.
 
Maybe a stupid question, but I am curious, are there examples where multi-band compression is used to make the bass sound 'not natural' on purpose? Of course there is squishing the bass signal 'flat' to get a synthy sound, but how about multi-band, is there something weird that is actually desired?

I mean, in the past distortion was a problem that needed to be fixed because it was unwanted.
Maybe you could use one on a P w flats to get "the Fieldy sound"? JK:laugh:
 
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But could multi-band be breaking something subtle and musical ("natural" sounding)? Traditional single-band compression ties the fundamental and its harmonics together, so when the low end gets compressed, everything moves as one coherent “object.” That coupling might actually be part of what makes bass feel deep, unified, and “instrument-like.”

Unpopular opinion: All dynamics processing is "breaking something subtle and musical."

I used to have a compressor in my live performing rig. Back in the 80s, when I was mostly playing rock, pop, and funk music (a lot of which required slap&pop) having some gentle but constant 4:1 compression kept the bass sounding uniform and consistent throughout a performance.

But in the 1990s I started playing almost exclusively modern jazz, jazz-adjacent, and "serious" contemporary chamber music, and I quickly discovered that any amount of gain reduction was an impediment to my controlling the micro-dynamics required by the music. It disconnected the musician (me) from the sound coming out of the speaker. Subtly, sure...but musically, definitely.

These days I'm back to playing mostly rock, pop, and funk (at least when performing live) but I don't bother with any onstage compression, since the preceeding two or three decades of performing without it taught me how to govern my dynamics appropriately. But I still always add a touch of compression when recording my bass tracks...in the studio, it's what people want to hear.
 
These things are all just tools. Use them when you need the tool. The Urei 1176 single-band comp was released back in 1967 and is still sought after today. The Distressor was in Marcus Miller's rack for years. Single band, but it sounded completely different. I ran an FEA DB-CL on my pedalboard for a long time and loved it, and now use a single-band in my HX Stomp. Use the thing that makes the sound you want.
 
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This will be a very unpopular comment, but it seems that a tool that was once an audio shaping tool used by FOH and engineers in the studio has made its way to the pedalboards of eager pedal buyers, much to the delight of manufacturers. Like, for instance, why would anyone want to compress a P bass with flats? I mean, that dude is compressed out of the box.
I have no issue with tech, pedals and whatever someone wants to use. I don't care. But, I do have an issue with over-compressed blah tone that, at least partially, can be controlled by the player themselves, with a little attention and practice. Perhaps a multiband EQ for really fine tuned control. I'll also throw in the caveat that if anyone is running a lot of distortion, a compressor up front can be useful (the Billy Sheehan pedal with built in compression for example).
I'm sure if this comment gets any attention at all it will be negative or someone justifying compressors on rigs. It's ok, my comment is food for thought and nothing else, based on many years experience. And like I said, in the end it doesn't matter what people choose to do with their gear and money.
 
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