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Multi effects with decent EQ

#41
"Since I happen to have used a few really good multi-effects boards in the past, and given that my guitarists record with Line 6 POD products for tones that often sound as good (sometimes better) than the amps they play with...

...I think your comment is rash, over-generalized, and ignorant. "

Line 6 pod on guitar? Are you kidding me? I couldn't think of anything that could possibly sound worse. Get real dude. I own a basspod pro. It is completely flat and devoid of life and character. It is phony and soulless. If thats what you want to sound like, be my guest, but don't call me ignorant for telling you the truth. I'm just trying to help, but you are obviously beyond any kind of help.
 
#42
You've never used a Vetta, then. Much less, really heard the recorded results of a POD in the hands of an experienced guitarist who knows what he's doing with it.

I don't criticize digital gear as a whole, for the sole reason that some digital gear has really surprised me in how good it can sound. Sure, there are a lot of crappy examples out there, but they're not all bad.

I'm not too fond of the amp models Line 6 offers for bass (which is why I no longer own any Line 6 gear), but the brand is far from a total failure. I've been to concerts where I've seen pro guitarists (Nine Inch Nails, Megadeth, etc.) use them live, and I've been nothing but impressed.

I'm not interested in arguing about this with someone who closes doors. I've known enough experienced musicians (some with almost two decades of experience) and heard enough gear to think twice before waving the anti-digital flag.
 
#43
The only type of digital effect that I've ever heard that was any good was a delay. There are a few plugins for protools that have sounded ok after endless tweaking, but nothing sounds as good as the real thing. The only good thing that I can say about my pod is that it is very clean recorded direct, and the phasers are ok. Try to get a clean bass tone out of it though. There's nothing there. Distortions are terrible.
 
#44
"Much less, really heard the recorded results of a POD in the hands of an experienced guitarist who knows what he's doing with it."

I know some very good guitarists. My guitar player is awesome and he has a degree in recording engineering. He would never even consider using something as fake sounding as a guitar pod. I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm just telling you the truth. Take it or leave it.
 
#45
Like I said, I'm not vouching for the Bass POD end of things. It fell short of expectations.

Every guitarist will feel differently about Line 6. I will give you this much: it usually takes some work to get a really good sound out of it, and it's not guaranteed to please everyone (but that's the case with any gear - not everyone loves tubes or overdrive or Ampeg or Jazz basses... and so on).

I disagree with the notion that "crappy" digital effects are a universal truth.

However, if your guitarist doesn't like the POD, I won't spend my time trying to convince him - that's not what I'm trying to do. It's not for everyone, even though it tries to be. It's not perfect by any means; not all of the models and effects are spectacular, and there are many things that my gear can do that the POD won't. In fact, sound aside... my biggest problem with POD gear is the limitation you have on how you can order the effects models. You can't put wah after distortion, for example. For all the possibilities it offers, there are still dampers on creative freedom built into PODs. :hmm:

So... my point is, there's not much sense in arguing. I'm merely suggesting that whether or not you like multi-effects (and it's clear that neither of us like the Bass POD), I would hesitate to rule all of them out.
 
#46
manmountain8 said:
I think it was Neil Young who said something like-
"Music is like water. Analogue effects are like pouring a bucket of warm water slowly over your head. It's warm, smooth and soothing. Digital effects use the same water, same bucket, but the water is frozen in to ice cubes, and it's poured on your head all at once. I know which one feels better to me."
Click to expand...

At the time Neil Young said that, he was probably right. But times change. I'll admit there are still some awful sounding multi-effects out there, but you've got to admit there are some pretty awful "normal" pedals too. And the whole point of the thread in the first place was to find a multi-effect with a decent EQ. I somehow knew this was going to make it much easier to make things sound like warm water. And I was right!
 
#47
MysticBoo said:
Based on my lead guitarist's practice rig (Vetta combo and matching control board), it IS awesome.

BUT... his Morley Bad Horsie 2 and Mesa rig sound better. Different, but still better. :D
Click to expand...
Vetta = better than the X3. You can have 3 stomps running into 2 different or both amp chains. Plus you can move the Wah and Vol to about 4 or 5 different positions, chainwise.

Still, I find it interesting that you still find his non-digital rig better :hmm:
 
#48
Manmountain, a few things:

First, as Pete said, things change. Digital thirty years ago, heck even ten years ago, was not as "natural sounding" as it can be today.

Secondly, when you make huge blanket statements (all digi is phony, lifeless, etc.) it pretty much casts an ugly shadow on anything else you might add to those comments, because huge blanket statements are almost never the whole "truth". Maybe you had that experience, but there are a lot of variables there, including how well you understood the tools you were using. It's not always the tool's fault.

Thirdly, there are so many closed-minded people in this world that simply saying you know a bunch of them is not very impressive. For every studio musician or producer you know who hates digital, I can name just as many who disagree. So which one is the truth? Neither, it's all subjective. Taking a fixed one-sided stance is anti-musical IMO.

Go over to Gearslutz, or any other recording forum, and ask whether any of the top producers there use digi gear. They all do, even the ones who also use analog gear to get certain tonal results, not a single one of them will make a blanket statement about digi gear being so crappy across the board. You may say "oh, they're talking about high-end computer systems etc.", but the fact is modeling pedals are computers, and the newer and better ones share a lot of the same software and architecture as the high-end computer recording systems.

If you want to say that "all cheap low-end consumer-grade digi pedals" you've used sounded bad to you, be my guest. :p But even then, telling people who get good results from those pedals that they are "beyond help" is pretty much just a reflection on your own limitations.
 
#49
I have a ridiculous amount of respect for Neil Young. My girlfriend HATES that I listen to Neil Young so much. I'm listening to Neil Young right now. I'm seriously considering buying a $1900 Fender 57 Deluxe to plug my bass into just because I love Neil Young's tone so much. But I have gotten some really great sounds out of digital effects, and not just delays. And I am an analog guy through and through, but I've found a Bass Pod XT is really handy in the studio.

See, there's a trick to getting the best sound out of digital effects, just like with analog effects. In my experience the digital effects I've used sound best at a moderate volume which is really handy in the studio, while analog effects sounded best with my amp cranked, like in a live situation. And I doubt Neil Young has ever turned his amp down to a moderate volume, I mean, the man is all about loud rock and roll with his electric stuff, right?

The expression I've heard about digital effects is that they "just don't make my pants flap like the real thing". You can say that, and I'll know exactly what you're talking about, but at a moderate volume I've found some digital effects can sound even better than the analog stuff. Maybe you never turn down so analog is what it is for you, but please respect other players may have other needs than you that may be better met by digital gear.
 
#53
DanielTulip said:
Still, I find it interesting that you still find his non-digital rig better :hmm:
Click to expand...

Well, to clarify... I just really like the flavor that the Bad Horsie brings to the table. :D

In terms of comparing one rig to another... it's a very tough comparison. Part of it stems from the fact that he's used three different guitars during the past few months, in addition to changing up his effects usage and tweaking his solos. Plus, our practice space is a bit cramped, and he's stuck to his Vetta combo for practice purposes. If anything, the Mesa is delivering more volume than the Vetta, but you're talking about a Dual Rectifier on a matching 4x12 cab versus an open-backed 2x12 combo. What do you think will be louder every time? :D

In short... I honestly couldn't tell you if the Mesa rig really sounds absolutely better. I just really like what he's doing with the Bad Horsie live. :D

I should probably hound him into bringing his modified Dual Rectifier and beautiful axes into our practice space, for the sake of an A/B comparison.

TBH, the Vetta has a good chance of "winning" based on sheer versatility alone, but when you consider that his live pedalboard consists of Eventide, T.C. Electronic, and Morley... you never know. :ninja:

Now, imagine a bass version of the Vetta... that would kill. :bassist:

LowBSix said:
Indeed I took my time reading the thread and made a suggestion to connect into the multi effect Mien Kompf. Ontind ursen sumptin dat It meandt vutchu vantunitto be meantl. I'm no pumped up; so getdown!!!
Click to expand...

WTH? :confused:

:eyebrow:
 
#54
MysticBoo said:
Well, to clarify... I just really like the flavor that the Bad Horsie brings to the table. :D

In terms of comparing one rig to another... it's a very tough comparison. Part of it stems from the fact that he's used three different guitars during the past few months, in addition to changing up his effects usage and tweaking his solos. Plus, our practice space is a bit cramped, and he's stuck to his Vetta combo for practice purposes. If anything, the Mesa is delivering more volume than the Vetta, but you're talking about a Dual Rectifier on a matching 4x12 cab versus an open-backed 2x12 combo. What do you think will be louder every time? :D

In short... I honestly couldn't tell you if the Mesa rig really sounds absolutely better. I just really like what he's doing with the Bad Horsie live. :D

I should probably hound him into bringing his modified Dual Rectifier and beautiful axes into our practice space, for the sake of an A/B comparison.

TBH, the Vetta has a good chance of "winning" based on sheer versatility alone, but when you consider that his live pedalboard consists of Eventide, T.C. Electronic, and Morley... you never know. :ninja:

Now, imagine a bass version of the Vetta... that would kill. :bassist:



WTH? :confused:

:eyebrow:
Click to expand...

HUMOR! Hahahahaha... Some Tbers take it upon themselves to be what I've seen referred to as aThread Nazi!

People need to lighten up and enjoy life and sharing ideas!
 
#55
LowBSix said:
HUMOR! Hahahahaha... Some Tbers take it upon themselves to be what I've seen referred to as aThread Nazi!

People need to lighten up and enjoy life and sharing ideas!
Click to expand...

Heh... I wasn't sure what was going on. I've seen a lot of posts like that where the poster was serious about the gibberish he/she wrote. :p

You appeared to be either hallucinating or noobish. The two conditions look similar. :D
 
#57
MysticBoo said:
Heh... I wasn't sure what was going on. I've seen a lot of posts like that were the poster was serious about the gibberish he/she wrote. :p

You appeared to be either hallucinating or noobish. The two conditions look similar. :D
Click to expand...

So, whether a "noob" or "humorous" we should be unkind?

IMHO, that's not why I am a member....

Kindness pays off eternally....
Take care...
 
#58
LowBSix said:
So, whether a "noob" or "humorous" we should be unkind?
Click to expand...

No, no, no... that's not what I meant.

I think you're jumping to conclusions. I was just making another joke... don't take it the wrong way, man.

I don't go around bashing the new members. I only do what I can to help others out, but occasionally, I run into a few who are a little unreasonable... swearing, vague statements, fighting with other members, etc. :hmm:

Anyhow... back to the thread topic. I don't want to derail it any further. :D
 
#59
LowBSix said:
So, whether a "noob" or "humorous" we should be unkind?

IMHO, that's not why I am a member....

Kindness pays off eternally....
Take care...
Click to expand...
He said that is what originally appeared to be. He's hardly being unkind with asking for an explanation of what you said, since part of the post was in German.

And what does being a member have to do with it?...



In relation to the thread: Anybody try these out? Looks highly tweakable (isn't that what the OP wants?) though I'd personally need the editor ($40) and the FC-300 ($295) to be able to use to its fullest potential.

Very interesting though... I'm still reading the 88 page manual online! I'll be done soon enough.
 
#60
LowBSix said:
HUMOR! Hahahahaha... Some Tbers take it upon themselves to be what I've seen referred to as aThread Nazi!
Click to expand...
Sorry that's from the years I spent as a TB moderator.

The problem is some TB'ers take it upon themselves to constantly try and sell junk the thread-starter neither wants or needs. There are already plenty of forums out there where you can't get an answer to a question because the knowledgeable people are can't be bothered dealing with the pushy salesmen. No-one wants TB to become one of those. You touched on a pet hate of many TBers, so much so that there are rules against this kind of thing.

And EQ pedal at the end of my chain won't help because I need a different EQ patch for each effects patch. I have EQ pedals. Heck I've even got a Boss EQ20 which can save and recall several EQ patches. Even that isn't completely solving my problem. I needed a Multi-effects which lets me save and recall EQ as part of the patch. That's what I asked about, and with TBers help, that's what I got :)
 

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