Music and Politics?

[wilberthenry]

For the record, not all the Ramones were conservative. Johnny was, but Joey didn't see things the same way and DeeDee was mostly worried about where his next fix was coming from.

As for capitalism hurting more people than drugs, what is your alternative? Do you think the gear you play would have come into being without capitalism and the profit motive? What about the compuuter you are on the internet with?

To me the interesting thing about politics is that the discussions CAN get deep and interesting. This is rarely the case (in my experiences) when you are dealing with the hardcore true believers on either side.

 

[ChrisB2]

Wow, this thread is an eye-opener. Never really knew libs could be so bitter until now having seen it first-hand.

As to capitalism hurting people (posted by a person using the fruits of capitalism to spread his cheer), it's no different than the "Occupy" organizers using iPads to organize their movement. Preposterous, yet hilariously funny at the same time...

C'mon people... the proof is in, communism doesn't work. America was founded on freedom, capitalism, and faith in God, and produced the best version of civilization in the history of the world. Who is risking their lives to flee to Cuba? No one... but, if you're so dag-gone in love with socialism, why don't you relocate there???

(Don't forget that Republicans fought Democrats to free the slaves... )

 

[CrewsControl]

I still don't get the part about guns in the OP. Maybe the CL ad has been changed since it was first posted.

But the poster above me is not even wrong. The 1773 Boston Tea Party wasn't about the tea. The colonists drank tea before and after they dumped a load of it into the harbor. OWS is not about iPads, so criticizing them for using them is - not even wrong!

 

[MatticusMania]

"Politics go so good with beer"

 

[scottfeldstein]

It's a fact that musicians, writers, artists, actors and other "creative types" tend to be liberals. Not always, of course, but the majority of the time.

This isn't a coincidence. Nor is it the results of some sinister indoctrination they go through.

Creatives are thoughtful people who are drawn to learn and bring forth new ideas. The word "conservative" has many nuanced definitions, but none of them would include a strong willingness to experience and adopt new ways of thinking as opposed to existing ones.

Still, I wouldn't ever put up an ad like that. Not unless I'd just had a string of very jerky Republicans in the band. One can easily see this happening with religion as well. Have you ever had the experience of running a rock band with a Christian who sought at every turn to make your music into a hotbed of born-again evangelism? I think I'm not alone in saying that I have. You get to a point where you really want to get to know people before inviting them into your band.

 

[Gaius46]

It's a fact that musicians, writers, artists, actors and other "creative types" tend to be liberals. Not always, of course, but the majority of the time.

This isn't a coincidence. Nor is it the results of some sinister indoctrination they go through.

Creatives are thoughtful people who are drawn to learn and bring forth new ideas. The word "conservative" has many nuanced definitions, but none of them would include a strong willingness to experience and adopt new ways of thinking as opposed to existing ones.

Still, I wouldn't ever put up an ad like that. Not unless I'd just had a string of very jerky Republicans in the band. One can easily see this happening with religion as well. Have you ever had the experience of running a rock band with a Christian who sought at every turn to make your music into a hotbed of born-again evangelism? I think I'm not alone in saying that I have. You get to a point where you really want to get to know people before inviting them into your band.

As typically used in current political discourse the words liberal and conservative have very little to do with acceptance of new ideas. I'd propose that a good number of people on both ends of the political spectrum and blinded to any possibility except those that fit their particular ideology.

 

[scottfeldstein]

As typically used in current political discourse the words liberal and conservative have very little to do with acceptance of new ideas.

I think you're wrong. Modern American conservatism does have something to do with the principle of clinging to old, established ideas and ways of doing things. Nothing is perfect and there are counterexamples, but I think the principle is sound.

 

[Floyd Eye]

I am a pretty conservative guy. A gun owner and 2nd amendment advocate. Staunchly anti-socialist. Got no love for the "Occupy" folks.

My band plays about 8 RATM songs, which I love. Go figure.

Gotta be able to separate art from reality.

 

[guy n. cognito]

As typically used in current political discourse the words liberal and conservative have very little to do with acceptance of new ideas. I'd propose that a good number of people on both ends of the political spectrum and blinded to any possibility except those that fit their particular ideology.

Agreed. The terms have come to demonstrate where a person stands on the issues. I have met just as many close minded liberals as I have close minded conservatives.

 

[Skitch it!]

"Artists use lies to tell the truth, while politicians use them to cover the truth up."

 

[Ben Noblit]

America was founded on freedom, capitalism, and faith in God, and produced the best version of civilization in the history of the world.

)

As a historian, with my primary focus being the American Revolution, I have to say that there are a lot of problems with this statement. Freedom, yes, is in the founding principles, though the motivations behind the founding and the initial revolution had much less to do with that than you might think. Yes, America was a capitalist country from the beginning, but saying "founded on capitalist principles" is a bit of a stretch, as there wasn't anything opposing capitalism at the time. That was just how things were. Saying America was founded on faith in God is simply untrue. Prove me wrong, I dare you.

As for the second part, the "best form of civilization" is completely subjective, and I'm not gonna argue opinions with you. I am sure that many other people in many other times and places consider their civilization the best, as well. I do agree with you, though.

As for us producing it, the ideas, thoughts, and concepts contained in our civilizational blueprint had either already existed prior to the founding of the US, were derived from other civilizations (mostly England or Rome), or both.

 

[stratovani]

WOW! Four pages of politics and this thread is still open? Time to jump in, quick!!

My opinion is that when you're in a band you never ever talk about politics or religion, and you only talk about sports in a good-natured way. I don't want to know if my drummer supports whoever, all I care about is that he keeps good time, and is not a drunk. Politics and religion are very toxic to bands.

 

[scottfeldstein]

Agreed. The terms have come to demonstrate where a person stands on the issues. I have met just as many close minded liberals as I have close minded conservatives.

Conservatives take a harder line against foreigners and immigrants, thereby protecting "us" from outsiders--and outsiders ways of thinking/being.

Conservatives are against gay rights, preventing change and preserving The Way Things Have Always Been against the way things could be.

Conservatives are often religious fundamentalists, clinging to traditional morality as opposed to welcoming new understandings of what it means to be a good person.

Once upon a time there was a group of people who thought black Americans should have equal rights and there was another group of people who thought they shouldn't. I'll let you ponder which position was conservative and which liberal.

Likewise with women's rights.

Please don't tell me that modern American conservatism isn't about those things, that it's about "fiscal responsibility" or some nonsense. That hasn't passed the giggle test since the early 80s.

Being conservative doesn't necessarily make one wrong. (I personally think conservatives are often wrong, but that's another issue.) But the term conservative still means what it's always meant: resisting change, preserving existing ways of doing things. There's no use getting insulted about it. It is what it is. Embrace it, I say.

I actually had a group of people ticked off at me recently because I had the audacity to say that the Taliban was a conservative group. Being American conservatives themselves, they were deeply insulted and refused to see that they, like the Taliban, fit the most general definitions of the term.

 

[fmoore200]

And that's when the thread got closed

 

[shwashwa]

Conservatives take a harder line against foreigners and immigrants, thereby protecting "us" from outsiders--and outsiders ways of thinking/being.

absolute crap peddled by liberals. conservatives are 100% in favor of legal immigration and welcome it with open arms

Once upon a time there was a group of people who thought black Americans should have equal rights and there was another group of people who thought they shouldn't. I'll let you ponder which position was conservative and which liberal.

100% truth. the liberals did fight hard against equal rights (headed up by al gore's father), but the conservatives did get it done.

 

[scottfeldstein]

100% truth. the liberals did fight hard against equal rights (headed up by al gore's father), but the conservatives did get it done.

This brings up the really disturbing thing about contemporary American conservatives: they so often just make up their own reality.

 

[shwashwa]

This brings up the really disturbing thing about contemporary American conservatives: they so often just make up their own reality.

Al Gore, Sr., together with the rest of the southern Democrats, voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Congressional Quarterly reported that, in the House of Representatives, 61% of Democrats (152 for, 96 against) voted for the Civil Rights Act as opposed to 80% of Republicans (138 for, 38 against). In the Senate, 69% of Democrats (46 for, 21 against) voted for the Act while 82% of Republicans did (27 for, 6 against). All southern Democrats voted against the Act.

 

[scottfeldstein]

That's fascinating! And what I said in comment 73 is still correct.

 

[KTFunkAlive]

Conservatives take a harder line against foreigners and immigrants, thereby protecting "us" from outsiders--and outsiders ways of thinking/being.

Conservatives are against gay rights, preventing change and preserving The Way Things Have Always Been against the way things could be.

Conservatives are often religious fundamentalists, clinging to traditional morality as opposed to welcoming new understandings of what it means to be a good person.

Once upon a time there was a group of people who thought black Americans should have equal rights and there was another group of people who thought they shouldn't. I'll let you ponder which position was conservative and which liberal.

Likewise with women's rights.

Please don't tell me that modern American conservatism isn't about those things, that it's about "fiscal responsibility" or some nonsense. That hasn't passed the giggle test since the early 80s.

Being conservative doesn't necessarily make one wrong. (I personally think conservatives are often wrong, but that's another issue.) But the term conservative still means what it's always meant: resisting change, preserving existing ways of doing things. There's no use getting insulted about it. It is what it is. Embrace it, I say.

I actually had a group of people ticked off at me recently because I had the audacity to say that the Taliban was a conservative group. Being American conservatives themselves, they were deeply insulted and refused to see that they, like the Taliban, fit the most general definitions of the term.

This is dead on

 

[CopperheadLXXIX]

This brings up the really disturbing thing about contemporary American conservatives: they so often just make up their own reality.

If we're talking conservative=Republican and liberal=Democrat, which seems to be the case here, it was indeed Republicans who were at the head of both the abolition of slavery as well as the civil rights movement, not Democrats. And the above poster or two who pointed out that the term "liberal" means absolutely nothing of what it used to is absolutely correct. Liberal used to be roughly what today would now be called libertarian, and was often associated with ideas like laissez-faire, which is about as far away from modern liberal/progressive ideas as can be.