Music isn't a competition.

[Nev375]

you know they judge music right? like the actual music. to get into music school and other programs.

I would think they are judging the student's ability to learn music and benefit from their program.

 

[Killing Floor]

So, basically you are saying that every time someone is emotionally moved enough to decide that they like a thing, that thing has won some kind of a contest between all other things for that individual's attention. Right?

I mean... if so, okay. You can look at it like that, but it's kind of splitting hairs. What you are talking about is subjective.

Competition in the true sense is objective at a fundamental level. One either wins or loses based on some kind of standard of agreed upon measuring system.

How do you measure a guitar riff and compare it to another? The fastest? the most notes? which one is harder to play? Which one sold the most records? You have to APPLY some sort of yardstick based on business, athleticism, popularity or something that has nothing to do with music itself.

Music is about expression of sonic concepts and emotions through the medium of sound. It is best compared to a language. People either understand it or they don't. So how do you measure a language? If you base it upon how many people "get-it" then the crudest and most basic ones tend to rise to the top because they have the widest reach. And really, you just end up measuring the listener's ability to understand in the end.

Contests or honestly any type of measurement applied to art is fully subjective.

What I’m saying is every day your band isn’t playing at (venue) someone else won that slot for any number of subjective but judged reasons. And any time your band is playing at (venue) you beat out dozens or even hundreds of bands for that slot.

I am not saying that is a bad thing. We try hard to control the things we can because we believe we benefit from some outcome. I’m not saying a band or artist has to be cutthroat or work against something/someone. Just that we have nearly limitless choices and we all want people to choose our product over others.

 

[lermgalieu]

Healthy Competitive nature is the driving force of success

No, it's ONE of the driving forces of success.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

Even though I agree, I keep thoughts like that to myself because they come across as pretentious garbage.

 

[Nev375]

What I’m saying is every day your band isn’t playing at (venue) someone else won that slot for any number of subjective but judged reasons. And any time your band is playing at (venue) you beat out dozens or even hundreds of bands for that slot.

Usually those reasons are a measurement of liquor or ticket sales. Not musical content. And you'll find no argument from me that business is a competition.

But when you start handing trophies to artists as recognition for their art I think that sends a very bad message. It says this musician, in this year or in this talent show, is objectively better than all the other loser musicians who also were considered. I think thats a dangerous and offensive sort of thing to promote.

Let's consider Justin Bieber's "Baby Baby Baby" with Radiohead's "How to Dissapear Completely" If music is a competition then it should be very simple to measure those songs up and declare one as objectively better music than the other.

 

[stretch80]

The thing is, making good music (in a band) is cooperative, not competitive, and IMHO, musicians and bands (and especially bass players) can often do better by working on the collaboration and support rather than the competition. Where helping people out and supporting them means they give you a call for a new session or band or gig...

But we each are driven in our own ways. We talk about the "killer instinct" in sports, but music can be different.

 

[Killing Floor]

Usually those reasons are a measurement of liquor or ticket sales. Not musical content. And you'll find no argument from me that business is a competition.

But when you start handing trophies to artists as recognition for their art I think that sends a very bad message. It says this musician, in this year or in this talent show, is objectively better than all the other loser musicians who also were considered. I think thats a dangerous and offensive sort of thing to promote.

Let's consider Justin Bieber's "Baby Baby Baby" with Radiohead's "How to Dissapear Completely" If music is a competition then it should be very simple to measure those songs up and declare one as objectively better music than the other.

Ha! I “objectively” believe RH is better than the Biebs!
EOB is one of my favorite guitarists too.
Yet Dan Kanter is arguably a much more technically skilled guitarist. He doesn’t stretch much on the recording of “Baby” but he’s the driving force behind a lot of Stevie Wonder performances. Just saying again art is always subjective.

Most but not all music awards are sales based which is a competitive metric.

 

[g-dude]

I would think they are judging the student's ability to learn music and benefit from their program.

Even non-musical higher education doesn't do that. I mean, they should...

 

[Turnaround]

Music as competition..... hmmmmm.

Is an audition a form of competition? What about challenging yourself to be a better player? Trying to get that choice gig? Undercutting another band for a gig? Leaning on the head of the entertainment committee at a country club?

 

[JRA]

Music isn't a competition.


i wish i had gotten that memo before i:
- tried to get hired instead of those other cats who auditioned.
- tried to get any of my bands a gig.
- tried to make a saleable record.
- quoted a price (bid) on the ___?___ .
- invested/spent so much money for all of the __?__ i needed.

without making a hard distinction between "the art" and "the business," music is as competitive as any sport if you want to profit* by your participation, IME. YMMV

what makes music competitive is money! if you don't want/need any money from music = it's all art, all of the time!

-or-

if you refuse to play for free = you're competing!


* fame and/or fortune...maybe even some types of 'personal satisfaction'!

 

[AlexanderB]

It's incredibly easy for someone at retirement age with a net worth in the millions to have such standards.

Meanwhile, ask those nominated for best new artist if music is a competition. Ask those young hungry songwriters in Nashville if music is a competition. Ask guitar players about ti graduate with a (mostly useless) degree from prestigious music schools if music is a competition. Ask any studio musicians in music towns who aren't at the level of Sklar or Rhodes if music is a competition.

@BAG are you trying to make a living playing/writing music? Or do you have a career outside of music and do this for the fun and passion of it? If the former, and you're not already successful at it, you may want to start treating it as a competition.

Retirement age??? Born in 1957, Nick Cave turned 39 years old in 1996, when he wrote the letter.
Or you are just another american guy who does not bother reading even the first post before you HAVE to communicate something?

 

[Nev375]

Ha! I “objectively” believe RH is better than the Biebs!
EOB is one of my favorite guitarists too.

This is the thing. What is actually being measured is ultimately the taste of the listener. Cause there's a LOT of bubblegum chewing youngsters who would disagree with you and I about Radiohead's "boring" music. Pretty sure we are outnumbered. However there are college courses dedicated to the music of Radiohead. so...

I'm with Mr. Cave on this. Give those awards to some artist who needs to have an award to feel special. Or better yet, give it to whoever judged the competition. They are the ones who likely value it most.

 

[LBS-bass]

Healthy Competitive nature is the driving force of success

The only person I'm driven to compete with is myself. I want to do better next time, always. That seems to drive me toward success without having to stomp on the heads of vanquished enemies day after day.

 

[Killing Floor]

This is the thing. What is actually being measured is ultimately the taste of the listener. Cause there's a LOT of bubblegum chewing youngsters who would disagree with you and I about Radiohead's "boring" music. Pretty sure we are outnumbered. However there are college courses dedicated to the music of Radiohead. so...

I'm with Mr. Cave on this. Give those awards to some artist who needs to have an award to feel special. Or better yet, give it to whoever judged the competition. They are the ones who likely value it most.

So you think…

He’s yearning to be done with all this measuring of truth…

 

[Killing Floor]

Someone’s gonna get that eventually.

 

[two fingers]

Retirement age??? Born in 1957, Nick Cave turned 39 years old in 1996, when he wrote the letter.
Or you are just another american guy who does not bother reading even the first post before you HAVE to communicate something?

Ha! Wow. That's a uniquely American thing, ey? Thank you for that. Yes, this time I didn't get the full

Retirement age??? Born in 1957, Nick Cave turned 39 years old in 1996, when he wrote the letter.
Or you are just another american guy who does not bother reading even the first post before you HAVE to communicate something?

There was absolutely NOTHING in the OP that suggested that letter wasn't from last week. I thought it was a current issue, since it was brought up ..... you know..... now.

I suppose I need to study up on Swedish methods (that Swedes are know for) when it comes to finding context?

That was sarcasm in case you didn't pick up on it. And I don't appreciate your generalization. Perhaps we should toss around some Swedish stereotypes?


Nah. You get the point. Apparently Swedes are FABULOUS at deriving context.

 

[LBS-bass]

Even though I agree, I keep thoughts like that to myself because they come across as pretentious garbage.

You put it so much less delicately than I did

 

[Rolling Thunder]

I think Battle of the Bands are a great idea. It should be in good spirit to be done right. Not some Nancy Kerrigan type scenario. I feel like it might get local bands to hang out and locals to see what's out there. I'm a big proponent of bands playing live and young people hearing music as it should be heard (not through ear buds). Cheers!

 

[Nev375]

Someone’s gonna get that eventually.

an eye for an eye and a tooth for tooth.

 

[coy garcia]

I've never felt competition when playing with other bands except at a recent gig... A&&hat band leader of headliner screwed us out of a soundcheck, and treated us like dirt. The venue manager was so bothered by this he treated us to a fancy dinner and told us not to worry he would deal with them when the time was right. When we hit the stage we all felt like we had to put on a better show then them.