Music isn't a competition.

[Bunk McNulty]

A few facts: There was a time, not all that long ago, when Americans were not well traveled. In 1990 only 4% of Americans had passports. Now, 42% do. So things have changed. What motivated the change, I can only speculate. So I won't. And, like almost everything else in the US these days, attitudes towards our own country are quite politicized, and we don't do that here.

Speaking only for my English-speaking (and a little kitchen Spanish) self, I usually feel like a real hayseed speaking with Dutch people, most of whom speak at least 3 languages, many of whom are fluid in all three: Dutch, German, and English. I'd guess your average Amsterdam hotel assistant manager speaks those plus French, Spanish, and Italian.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

Wow, really puts the "Competing" in the term "Competing Viewpoints", eh?

 

[jnuts1]

Probably your best bet. Many Americans, for better or worse, buy the "We're So Exceptional" philosopy.

we have 398 Nobel prizes followed closely by the ENTIRE EU at 361......

 

[ColdEye]

I give up! You win! Bye!

Is there going to be a 3rd good bye at this point?

 

[5StringBlues]

Insert Rodney dangerfield armpit fart gif here

 

[Burwabit]

Everything in this life is a competition

 

[BadSanta1281]

Music isn't a competition.

...but TalkBass threads about competition certainly are.

 

[Hummergeist]

The greatest game of all is to say you're not playing the game.

 

[devnulljp]

Healthy Competitive nature is the driving force of success

Nah. That outlook is the source of a lot of grief though.

 

[5StringBlues]

And with that in mind, unsubscribed.

The greatest game of all is to say you're not playing the game.

 

[Shlabotnik]

There is a big difference between “should be” and “is”.

 

[GreyBeard]

What are auditions?

 

[BassBrass]

Nah. That outlook is the source of a lot of grief though.

"Healthy competition", not the unhealthy kind. That's what causes the grief. The healthy kind would perhaps be a mild preference. Like Bill Russell had.

 

[BAG]

Competition in the true sense is objective at a fundamental level. One either wins or loses based on some kind of standard of agreed upon measuring system.

How do you measure a guitar riff and compare it to another? The fastest? the most notes? which one is harder to play? Which one sold the most records?

Exactly. In competition you are comparing one thing with another. How do you compare Eddie Van Halen against Slava Grigorian? You simply cannot.

The only awards I think that can have a subjectively produced winner in music are the "Biggest Selling" (or these days, most streamed) song or album, and everyone here knows for a fact that more often than not the biggest selling or streamed songs are disposable pop that most likely won't even be heard 5 years from now let alone still attract new fans that weren't even born when they were at their peak.

If awards shows, which are a form of competition, were a fair and subjective measure of the worth of music would you agree that Kanye West, who has 24 Grammys, is a much better musician and has made much better music, than Queen, who don't have a single one.

Yes, the music "business" is a no-holds-barred competition, but do you think that had Nick Cave not managed to sell a lot of music that he would simply have stopped making his music altogether? Sure, he may not have had as much time to devote to it, but I like to think he would still be making it.

 

[devnulljp]

How do you know this? And how do you come to the arrive at this conclusion? Perhaps many people are more well-traveled than you, including some from the U.S.

Your state department says ~40% of people in the USA have a passport, ~38% have never had a passport, and ~20% have an expired passport. This number has increased and has historically been much lower.
Compare this to many other counties -- 76% in the UK, 90% in Germany, 67% in Canada, 90% in Sweden ... -- it's quite low, so I don't see anything controversial in that statement of fact. You seem to be taking it quite personally.

 

[lermgalieu]

Your state department says ~40% of people in the USA have a passport, ~38% have never had a passport, and ~20% have an expired passport. This number has increased and has historically been much lower.
Compare this to many other counties -- 76% in the UK, 90% in Germany, 67% in Canada, 90% in Sweden ... -- it's quite low, so I don't see anything controversial in that statement of fact. You seem to be taking it quite personally.

Taking it personally? How? Because I stated my view without qualification and without being passive aggressive? As I noted in my now-deleted response (not deleted for an infraction, but for quoting now-deleted content), I myself have been to ~25 countries but my passport is currently expired. It will be renewed. Whether the numbers have historically been lower isn't really germane. This is just one statistic and it has an entire geographic, political and practical context. I also didn't say the OPPOSITE, which seems to be what you are inferring - I didn't say that US folks ARE well-traveled. I just said don't read too much into the stat. I didn't say the stat was wrong or fake. How is that taking it personally? Moreover, the fact that someone lives in the EU and has a passport doesn't mean they are "well-traveled." It's a big world out there, and while I acknowledge that many from the U.S. lack a global perspective, I think the same is very true of many europeans. Euro-centrism is very real.

You are also cherry picking. The reason I even brought it up was because I was replying to someone who claimed to have an insight into the state of competition on a global cultural basis, and claiming that the US was the competitive outlier, but only using Europe to support the opposing scenario, while also mentioning ex-Europe countries as being "more" competitive, like the US. I was trying to show that his viewpoint was indeed euro-centric and that the passport statistic didn't really support his point since it is a single data point, and somewhat flawed to use as standalone support for his argument.

In short, please back off the "you are taking it personally" argument. I don't even know what that means, or is supposed to mean. We can talk about the actual issue if you want, but believe me, I am not losing sleep over this.

 

[Killing Floor]

Didn’t really see this becoming an IBTL thread.

IBTL

 

[Michael Stanley 2112]

Didn’t really see this becoming an IBTL thread.

IBTL

Help a dummy out? "IBTL"?

 

[Killing Floor]

Help a dummy out? "IBTL"?

In before the lock.

 

[gln1955]

Your state department says ~40% of people in the USA have a passport, ~38% have never had a passport, and ~20% have an expired passport. This number has increased and has historically been much lower.
Compare this to many other counties -- 76% in the UK, 90% in Germany, 67% in Canada, 90% in Sweden ... -- it's quite low, so I don't see anything controversial in that statement of fact. You seem to be taking it quite personally.

What a strange hill to die on.