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Music Man sound and pickups

#402
Thx...Duncan makes that cover style too, but that's the only low-to-mid-end maker *I* know who does. I've never seen ceramic bars coated that evenly on the edges, but they *could* be ceramic...they're certainly thin enough. In the full-size image tho you'd swear it was alnico with a rough edge. These absolutely do look like MM bobbins tho...I've seen a pair of bare fiber bobbins from a 2-coil. I figured it was probably an MM too, but the color and edge cut of the bars look surprisingly like alnico to me, esp. the way the light hits the bottom bar. But that top bar could pass for coated ceramic.
 
#404
I'll take your word on that dkelley...it was my understanding that the MM sound was largely dependent upon ceramic magnets, which kind of surprised me when I heard that (but hey...it was the 70s, and wasn't high output the "it" sound?), but I half assumed that if there were factory alnico's, they'd be rod magnets like the Duncan. I hope you're right. I like the single-coil tone of the MM design (and other fat-pole pickups too) as an alternative to p-bass tone for the classic-rock stuff I do, and having that phantom coil there to hum-cancel looks very appealing.
 
#405
The first couple years of the SR5 used alnico magnets with the phantom coil in this form-factor. Tony Levin's bass ('89) is almost certainly alnico, and I think he's mentioned that before. I think it was 2008 when they went back to alnicos in the new form-factor.

Alnico and ceramic will certainly get you the "Music Man" sound, but I believe you really need a correct preamp to completely nail it. Either an original EBMM pre, or a clone.
 
#406
I could be wrong about it being ceramic but it looks like the poles have that bullseye look to the ends of them and not a cut look to the ends like alnico's have. Hard to discrib what I am talking about but I have always noticed the pole ends look more machined smooth and alnico's have a cut look to there ends.
 
#407
thebassbuilder: it's the edgewise view of the bar magnets in the that makes this one tricky; you're absolutely right in that I never saw an alnico pole with a bullseye.

lowfreek: THANK you for that info! Very much appreciated. It's not the "MM sound" per se that I like, but rather the tone of this style of pickup. I think of the single-coil tone of a MM/EB-type as the "soapbar" of bass tones, and IMO nothing sounds like it as a humbucker. Re. the authenticity, I actually find onboard preamps to be somewhat undesirable with this type of pickup since I play pick-style exclusively, so that's not a worry. I tried the Duncan pre when I got the Duncan alnico...*shrug* I found the top end to be untameable. I didn't know at that time that fat capacitors could be used as shelving filters on the output of an active circuit. (FWIW I used a pair of .47uF's on the output of a piezo pocket bass that I built out of a fat-strat, and it worked like a .01/.015 would on a regular strat.)
 
#409
It's true the MM Musicman PU's are ceramic. They really define the high end of the tone.

Take'em away and the tone is gone. There's a vid on YT somewhere.where there's a comparison between stock and a Seymour Duncan Alnico replacement.

Dayum, what a difference. If I find I'll share it.
 
#410
Salamenster said:
It's true the MM Musicman PU's are ceramic. They really define the high end of the tone.

Take'em away and the tone is gone. There's a vid on YT somewhere.where there's a comparison between stock and a Seymour Duncan Alnico replacement.

Dayum, what a difference. If I find I'll share it.
Click to expand...

Depends which MusicMan you're talking about.
Sterlings are ceramic, Stingrays are alnico, except 5 string Stingrays during a certain period (the exact period I forget, but someone already mentioned it).

I watched the video you talk about. Wasn't it a Sterling? Not sure. Anyway, the Seymour Duncan and original MM do sound different, even when you compare MM alnico original vs SD alnico.

I had 5 string USA MM SUB where the previous owner had installed a ceramic SD pickup. I bought the alnico version and there was a clear difference between the two, but it was still clearly recognisable as a Stingray.

Sterlings are wired in series, as well as being ceramic, which I think has probably even a larger effect.
 
#411
dkelley said:
Also caps can be used on the preamp input from the pickup to filter tone in really exciting ways besides what a fixed band preamp alone can do.
Click to expand...

I guessed as much, but I don't know what value range works on piezo pickups. Got any thoughts on this? I've seen those cheapo Chinese piezo harnesses with the volume and tone pots, but I could never figure out the values and didn't feel like buying one to get that info. I had a piezo bridge on my OLP 5 (loved it when I heard the mixed-in bridge tone on a Sabre some years back) but the top end was just SO strident that I never used it, and at that time the Bass Mods EQ was the cheapest MM retrofit I could find with piezo input and it was too costly an experiment.
 
#412
Salamenster said:
There's a vid on YT somewhere.where there's a comparison between stock and a Seymour Duncan Alnico replacement. Dayum, what a difference. If I find I'll share it.
Click to expand...

That's a bit misleading, actually. The Duncan alnico is a whole 'nother pickup...it uses alnico RODS, not bars...think of the difference between an American Precision pickup and a MIM Pre or import pre pickup...that's how far apart they are. When you swap out the material in a BAR magnet pickup, you get a more subtle change.

(Hint: Try a few of those neodymium dot magnets from a small fridge magnet or something like a Magnetix toy on the bare bottoms of the nickel-steel pole slugs of an import ceramic Pre pickup...there are some very intriguing tones to be had for a few pennies.)

I think it's telling that the Stingray used alnico and the Sterling used ceramic...one wonders: were they trying to offer tonal diversity in their product line, or is this the same old manufacturer trick of only offering the costlier materials on the costlier models?
 
#415
walterw said:
well, that just means you have the pickup too close! MM pickups with their big-ass polepieces have a lot of magnet-pull, and are meant to be further away from the strings than a typical fender pickup.
Click to expand...
Dude no way. When I have my 76 pup a quarter way into the body it barely sounds like a stingray. You have to get the pups close to the string. To the point where if one was to really dig in you would get a little clack. That's why you hold back with technique and use eq to your advantage. It's the fenders that you can burry the pup. My humble bs 2 cents
 
#416
I'm looking for a way to make a Sting Ray 5 HH sound like an original MM Sabre. I'm not sure what PUPs or preamp was in the original Sabre, but I think they were different from the Ray. Again, I'm talking about the original Sabre from '79. Any thougts/recommendations appreciated.
 
#417
digiman said:
I'm looking for a way to make a Sting Ray 5 HH sound like an original MM Sabre. I'm not sure what PUPs or preamp was in the original Sabre, but I think they were different from the Ray. Again, I'm talking about the original Sabre from '79. Any thougts/recommendations appreciated.
Click to expand...

I would change the preamp if I had that bass. I never cared for the 3-band. you can make a Sabre 2-band on a perf, its an easy build. I made a few for some MM copy basses and they sound great. I don't think you want the bright switch like the original Sabre, the reissues omitted it. I wouldn't change the pups or switching. If you sell the bass you can always put the original guts back in
 
#418
BassLife77 said:
I would change the preamp if I had that bass. I never cared for the 3-band. you can make a Sabre 2-band on a perf, its an easy build. I made a few for some MM copy basses and they sound great. I don't think you want the bright switch like the original Sabre, the reissues omitted it. I wouldn't change the pups or switching. If you sell the bass you can always put the original guts back in
Click to expand...
Can you explain how to "make a Sabre 2-band on a perf"? Where would I purchase such a kit and what kind of cost would I be looking at? BTW, what is a perf:) I've never messed with electronics in a bass. Is this a matter of just taking the current preamp out and just replacing it with the new one, with new controls and everything or does this also involve any soldering? Is ths something virtually anyone could do or should this be done professionally by a luthier or someone?
 
#419
Hi there,

Need some advice, just recently bought myself 2 SMB5 pickups (Alnico and Ceramic) for a DIY project I`ve beem working on.

Time to install the pups and suprise!! No sound at all!!

Passive config: Volume, Volume, Master Tone with 250 Pods. I checked on the Seymour Duncan Support page (Wiring Diagrams) but there is no diagram for 2 of these pups in the same bass.

I mean, It`s not the first time I`ve wired a bass and that`s what is worrying me. Can 2 pickups be D.O.A.?

If any suggestions from you guys. As mentioned I`ve already wrote to SD support about a week ago and no reply from them so far...

Thanks,

Julio

P.S. returning the pups would be out of the question for me since I`m not from the U.S. The shipping cost to return them it`s a matter of jokes....
 
#420
Maelo Yakama said:
Hi there,

Need some advice, just recently bought myself 2 SMB5 pickups (Alnico and Ceramic) for a DIY project I`ve beem working on.

Time to install the pups and suprise!! No sound at all!!

Passive config: Volume, Volume, Master Tone with 250 Pods. I checked on the Seymour Duncan Support page (Wiring Diagrams) but there is no diagram for 2 of these pups in the same bass.

I mean, It`s not the first time I`ve wired a bass and that`s what is worrying me. Can 2 pickups be D.O.A.?

If any suggestions from you guys. As mentioned I`ve already wrote to SD support about a week ago and no reply from them so far...

Thanks,

Julio

P.S. returning the pups would be out of the question for me since I`m not from the U.S. The shipping cost to return them it`s a matter of jokes....
Click to expand...

Unlikely, very unlikely they are dead.
Check the wiring for a Jazz bass. That's a typical Vol Vol Tone. Use that diagram.

Intent want to be satisfied the pickups are ok, remove all wiring and just connect each pickup to the output socket directly, for a test.

Did you wire each pickup with the coils in series or in parallel?
 

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