Music Man sound and pickups

[dabis]

I’m kinda late to this particular part of the conversation, but with regard to the availability of that preamp, I replaced the preamp in a 1979 pre-EB (of course) Stingray. I called MM and inquired about a replacement for that particular model and the reply was, “sure, no problem, just send us the bad preamp and we’ll get a new one right out. That’ll be $65, please”. And I was warned that it wouldn’t look like the bad unit I was replacing, but it was the exact replacement. And they were right. It definitely had that early Stingray tone.

I did ask and the fellow told me they had a good stock of pretty much all the old-model preamps available with the exchange of the bad unit it was replacing.

I was mentioning this because I was surprised that you were told the preamp you needed was unavailable. Perhaps things have changed.

Asa side note, I know of three older stingray owners that swear the John East MM replacement is the best aftermarket Stingray preamp they’ve come across. If I were in need of a new preamp and I couldn’t get it from MM, I’d go with the East unit.

As far as I know and in my experience, Ernie Ball MM have stock of spare parts available only if you (or an authorized service) send them the old broken part. They will stick with the original type of part that the instrument left the factory.

What is not gonna happen through them is changing any part for a different one, for exemple, replacing steel frets for aluminium ones or the other way.

What is really surprising is that they have the pre-EB parts in stock.

 

[Geri O]

As far as I know and in my experience, Ernie Ball MM have stock of spare parts available only if you (or an authorized service) send them the old broken part. They will stick with the original type of part that the instrument left the factory.

What is not gonna happen through them is changing any part for a different one, for exemple, replacing steel frets for aluminium ones or the other way.

What is really surprising is that they have the pre-EB parts in stock.

MM seems to be easing up on some of those replacement parts policy. I know that they won’t sell bodies and necks outright.

But recently, I bought the Stingray Special seen in my profile pic. I’m thinking, man, gold hardware would make that bass look really good. So I sent them an email asking about buying the bridge, knobs, tuners, neck plate, and screws all in gold.

Sure, they said. We’ll be glad to, they said.

Then I saw the prices. Yikes! For not a whole lot more money, I could buy the whole bass with the gold hardware already installed!

So no go on that idea!….

 

[dabis]

MM seems to be easing up on sone of those replacement parts policy. I know that they won’t sell bodies and necks outright.

But recently, I bought the Stingray Special seen in my profile pic. I’m thinking, man, gold hardware would make that bass look really good. So I sent them an email asking about buying the bridge, knobs, tuners, neck plate, and screws all in gold.

Sure, they said. We’ll be glad to.

Then I saw the prices. Yikes! For not a whole lot more money, I could buy the whole bass with the gold hardware already installed!

So no go on that idea!….

Oh, this is new for me then. I commented this based on what people publish on EBMM forums.
I once broke the nut and the authorized service here in Barcelona had to send the broken one to the European rep. in order to get a new one.

It's good to know that I can replace any hardware part with a golden one paying what costs a new bass. It's a good strategy too, to not selling you those parts anyway

 

[fishdude101101]

TLDR version:

If you want a Stingray tone play a Stingray with stock electronics. I have an SR5 that is pre "Special" series and I love it. I'd never change a thing on it but the strings.

 

[fishdude101101]

MM seems to be easing up on some of those replacement parts policy. I know that they won’t sell bodies and necks outright.

But recently, I bought the Stingray Special seen in my profile pic. I’m thinking, man, gold hardware would make that bass look really good. So I sent them an email asking about buying the bridge, knobs, tuners, neck plate, and screws all in gold.

Sure, they said. We’ll be glad to, they said.

Then I saw the prices. Yikes! For not a whole lot more money, I could buy the whole bass with the gold hardware already installed!

So no go on that idea!….

That's the equivalent of the "I don't wanna do it quote from a contractor"

 

[Geri O]

TLDR version:

If you want a Stingray tone play a Stingray with stock electronics. I have an SR5 that is pre "Special" series and I love it. I'd never change a thing on it but the strings.

Not sure if you are throwing shade at the Special, but I can get that sound I love from my Special all day.

That sound may not be to your liking, but it works for me and folks I know agree that it’s “Geri with a Stingray” all day.

 

[fishdude101101]

Not sure if you are throwing shade at the Special, but I can get that sound I love from my Special all day.

That sound may not be to your liking, but it works for me and folks I know agree that it’s “Geri with a Stingray” all day.

No shade at all. I've played them in shops and I like them. I've never played one other than in a shop though. I'd say they have Stingray character but I had to twist the preamp knobs a little more to get it into pure SR territory. I could definately tell that I was playing a SR but it seems a little more Fenderish in its voicing (traditional vintage)


I don't think I've ever played a MM instrument that wasn't great.

 

[Geri O]

No shade at all. I've played them in shops and I like them. I've never played one other than in a shop though. I'd say they have Stingray character but I had to twist the preamp knobs a little more to get it into pure SR territory. I could definately tell that I was playing a SR but it seems a little more Fenderish in its voicing (traditional vintage)


I don't think I've ever played a MM instrument that wasn't great.

Ahhh, yes. I understand now.

I’ve always said, I’ll play any Stingray, any year, any string count, and until recently, any weight…..

Cheers….

Edit: that 79 Stingray I replaced the preamp in felt almost like a T40…..

 

[Stevorebob]

EBMM parts available without exchange: Shop Ernie Ball Music Man - Parts Shop for Music Man Guitars and Basses.

 

[BassLife77]

Apologies if this has been discussed earlier in this thread (this thread is huge), but does anyone have suggestions for replacement pickups that are made like the Bongo pickups? I know the Bongo's pickups are neodymium, and the only pickup manufacturer I've found who makes aftermarket neo pickups is Q-Tuner. I see they make their neo pickups in an MM shape, but I have no idea if they sound the part.

I've got the 4-band EQ covered - Noll from Germany will make one with the proper frequency centres. Trickfish also do a 4-band, but they can't change the frequencies to match the Bongo's.

All suggestions welcome - this is for a custom build, but I can see the suggestions being useful for anyone who's recently got a Sterling Bongo and who might want to upgrade the electronics.

You can try Sentell Guitar pickups and repair service Made in USA | Sentell Pickups he does custom pickups. I've bought several custom wound alnico pickups and they sound amazing

 

[Big Louzer]

Hi Brains trust.
I have a question regarding the Seymore Duncan ceramic pu and pre amp bundle with 3 band eq which I’m considering dropping into a late 90s EB MM SR 5 H
Long story short the original pu and pre have died and are (I’m told) unrevivable. MM do not stock replacements anymore so I need an alternative fix. The Seymore Duncan system seems like a good option for retaining that original sound, however there is one thing that is giving me cause for concern. It says on the website blurb “ not for use with Music Man basses with a 3 way blade switch”
Can anyone tell me why?
Is it something to do with the original pre amp making up for different outputs of the series, parallel and single coil switch positions? I do quite like that option of tone changes.
If I installed it with switchable configurations would I have to fiddle around with volume knob to get unity gain? Or just choose a configuration with no switch and be a one trick pony?
The Seymore website doesn’t seem to offer any other info and no contact details I can email to ask the question.
I’m open to other suggestions, however I’m limited to what I can get me hands on down in Australia
Thanks in advance

I know this has been resolved, but I just want to give my 2¢ (if it’s even worth as much) about the Duncan blurb about the 3-way switch.

I believe that this is referring to there SR5’s that had the 3-coil pickups (‘93-‘08?). Using their preamp with the 3-coil pickup is not going to work, and using their pickup to replace a 3-coil set up also will not work.

Duncan used to offer a 3-coil AlNiCo pickup (as did Nordstrand), which could replace the OEM ceramic magnet pickup.

But if you were to replace the entire system with the Duncan pickup and preamp, I believe you’d also have to purchase a standard 3-way switch, as the OEM switch for the 3-coil pickup has somewhere in the neighborhood of 12-16 solder points if I remember correctly.

When EB switched back to AlNiCo pickups in the SR5 (because that’s when the Sterling 5 came out and continued to utilize the 3-coil Ceramic pickup), EB used a basic 2-coil pickup and the preamp now had a “Series with Filter” setting on the 3-way switch rather than “Single Coil”.

At least that’s what I think….

I really wish they’d start the Sterling bass up again though…

 

[Bonecat]

New to MM basses and this whole pickup discussion. I recently was given a 2005 US Sterling 4H. Played it at a show last night and was a bit disappointed - tons of low end, but the mids and highs seemed muddy and a bit muted. Also got a lot of string noise - hitting the frets - when digging in as I usually do. I was hoping for that solid, clear tone that I’ve always associated with MM basses, but this isn’t that.

Any ideas for improving this? Many thanks!

 

[Tight and Tasty]

New to MM basses and this whole pickup discussion. I recently was given a 2005 US Sterling 4H. Played it at a show last night and was a bit disappointed - tons of low end, but the mids and highs seemed muddy and a bit muted. Also got a lot of string noise - hitting the frets - when digging in as I usually do. I was hoping for that solid, clear tone that I’ve always associated with MM basses, but this isn’t that.

Any ideas for improving this? Many thanks!

Hi Bonecat
I’ve never played a Sterling Sub, but it sounds unusual for your bass to be lacking punchy mids and snappy top end.
At the risk of asking the obvious-
How old are the strings?
Has the battery been changed recently? I’m assuming it’s active.
Before you give up on it, I would give it a new set of round wound strings and a good set up, which would address the fret noise and possibly some of the lack of mids and highs. A new battery will make world of difference if the current one is at the end of its life.
There’s plenty of tutorial videos on the YouTube for bass set ups if you’re game. Personally I like Roger Sadowskys approach and he demystifies the process and it works well for me.
I’ve found on my ray a little eq goes a long way. Typically I use just a smidge to a quarter past the centre detent on the bass control leaving the mids and treble centred
Also some rooms can be acoustically awful and bass just sounds boomy and muddy. A high pass filter in these rooms can work miracles.
I hope this helps.
Cheers

 

[Wood and Wire]

New to MM basses and this whole pickup discussion. I recently was given a 2005 US Sterling 4H. Played it at a show last night and was a bit disappointed - tons of low end, but the mids and highs seemed muddy and a bit muted. Also got a lot of string noise - hitting the frets - when digging in as I usually do. I was hoping for that solid, clear tone that I’ve always associated with MM basses, but this isn’t that.

Any ideas for improving this? Many thanks!

1) How did you have the EQ set?

2) Were you using a compressor?

3) How are you judging the sound you are describing (in-ear monitors? dedicated bass amp & cab directly behind you? dedicated bass amp & cab across the stage? recording of the show from the audience perspective?)

 

[Bonecat]

It is a US EBMM Sterling, not a Sub or “Sterling by”. I ran it direct to FOH via a Shure GLX 16+ wireless into a Bergantino SuperPre. Mild compression at the pre amp, no compression at mixer. Monitoring via Sennheiser IEMs. Bass has new DR Nickel Lo-Riders 45-105 and a fresh battery. Bass tone controls were flat. Also listened to FOH directly with same impression. My number one bass is a custom Muckelroy ProPlayer bolt on, with passive Armstrong pickups.

 

[Wood and Wire]

It is a US EBMM Sterling, not a Sub or “Sterling by”. I ran it direct to FOH via a Shure GLX 16+ wireless into a Bergantino SuperPre. Mild compression at the pre amp, no compression at mixer. Monitoring via Sennheiser IEMs. Bass has new DR Nickel Lo-Riders 45-105 and a fresh battery. Bass tone controls were flat. Also listened to FOH directly with same impression. My number one bass is a custom Muckelroy ProPlayer bolt on, with passive Armstrong pickups.

I'd expect a U.S. Sterling to be plenty present in the mids, and upper mids (the Ceramic pickup emphasises those already inherent characteristics of the preamp, and pickup placement).

Unless we're simply talking about sonic aesthetic preferences (for example, a staunch Precision player struggling to love a Rickenbacker, because all they hear is the ways a Rickenbacker doesn't sound like a Precision), it would seem there is a problem somewhere in the signal path.

Firstly, replace the Sure wireless with a 10' cable.

If that doesn't solve the issue, bypass the preamp.


From your earlier description, the compressor could be the hidden culprit, but obviously the preamp settings are a potential minefield, depending on how generous you've been with gain, EQ settings etc.

EQ of the IEM is the next most obvious candidate, but you say that the FOH signal has the same problem - is your IEM feed coming post EQ from FOH?

For the purposes of hunting down the issue, see what results you get by monitoring over a bass cabinet (ideally with a full frequency driver).

If that solves the problem / gives the expected result, look at the EQ being applied to both the IEM mix, and FOH mix.

Of course, it's possible there is a fault with the instruments active preamp - which you can troubleshoot by plugging the instrument directly into an audio interface, for example, to see if it still exhibits the same characteristics with nothing inbetween the instrument, and the ADC.

If there is a problem with the preamp, you can return the original to EBMM, and they will sell you a replacement part.

 

[tindrum]

Yeah an Ernie Ball Sterling should have plenty of sizzle and upper mids. As I’ve owned a few while also owning Stingrays the Sterling can be a little more cutting and pokey set flat.

 

[Big Louzer]

A lot of aftermarket preamps geared towards Stingray’s are said to focus their tone to be more like the 2-band, basically smooth-sounding with a sweet top end; ie, John East, the multiple DIY preamps, multiple smaller makers you can find, there once was a Nordstrand 2-band, even the Duncan STC-3MM has more of that vintage 2-band sweetness in the top end.

Granted, some of these are replacements for exiting Stingrays, but these days you can contract a custom build or put together a Stingray-like instrument at home.

With that in mind, are there any aftermarket 3-band’s out there dialed in to be more aggressive like the 90’s and pre-Special 3-band?

 

[IronLung1986]

I'm curious what folks normally have for pickup height on their Stingrays.

I've had a long and annoying adventure with this in pursuit of a perfect compromise between tone and magnet pull/chorusing in the upper register.

At the factory recommended single H pickup height of 6/32" from plastic casing to bottom of string, unfretted, there is chorusing in the upper register due to magnet pull. Mostly on the E string, which becomes unusable by about the 14th fret I'd say. It just sounds too out of tune by that point. However, any further away and the tone starts to drop off pretty substantially. It can be almost completely dialed out at about 7/32" but at that point the output of the bass is maybe a little less than a passive P bass. The tone is substantially diminished too.

The best tone from a Stingray is found with the pickup closer than 6/32", at which point the chorusing becomes prominent on the A string as well, and gets even worse on the E.

Is there something uniquely wrong with my bass? I rarely hear anyone talk about this with Stingrays. I've been playing mine for 12 years and have never been able to find a pickup height that eliminates all chorusing and still retains enough of the Stingray tone to make it worth playing vs just a P bass or something. I still love the aesthetic, UX and overall tone of the Stingray, which is why I persist with it.

 

[Max Ue]

I have kinda wierd question, however... I generally play on MM SUB5 USA, and recently I went low to A. Sometimes when I pluck A string with the pick the string probably hits the exposure coil, and on the record you can hear a really short artifact. I know, I attack a bit hard, however, not that hard to have tuning issues whatsoever. I was thinking that maybe I need a pickup cover to 'hide' the exposed coils? Or maybe you have other recommendations (except 'hold your right hand horses' )?
Thanks!
P.S, I use .135 for the A string
P.P.S. My sweetspot is right behind the pickup - on the back edge of it