I'm looking to build a short magnet type MM pickup. Resistance is not the key factor. It's the number of rounds in the coil. Coil height matters also, that's why I'm asking about it.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Music Man sound and pickups
- Thread starter TonyP-
- Start date
The number of windings and gauge of the wire determines the resistance. They're related. The reason I bring up resistance is that you can measure it on vintage pickups without destroying them. We do know that the resistance tended to range from 1750-1950 or so. The number of windings on a late 70s MM pickup is not known because each pickup was wound differently.
So when you keep asking for the number of windings don't be surprised if nobody will answer, because they were never wound to a spec. Ernie Ball standardized this in the 80s but I'm not sure they've ever posted what the winding count was. Make an educated guess, wind a pickup, and see if the resulting resistance is within the range of values. That's what the replica makers do.
Note that if you seek to replicate the "StingRay" sound you ought to make sure the resistance and design of the pickup matches the preamp and pots. You can't mix and match and get exactly what you're looking for. Good luck!
Yes, rounds count and resistance go hand in hand. I'm trying to replicate a four string pickup sound in five string pickup, that's why I use number of rounds. I've found that number close enough to make a pickup and hear how it sounds. I just like to know the height of the coil as that also makes a difference. I have found that it could be 6mm but that seems pretty narrow, at least when I look at the pics of the pickups.
In case anyone cares, I dug out my old ceramic SBMM Ray4 pickup and measured its resistance. It was 6650 ohms in series, so 3325 ohms if wired in parallel. Almost twice that of the classic pickup. I also looked closely at the preamp, which at first glance looks superficially similar to the classic preamp, but with a different opamp.
I laser cut the bobbin plates and assembled the bobbins. Coil height is a bit under 7mm. That's what I found out from one pickup winders forum. I wound the coils with 42AWG wire to 4400 rounds. Resistance per coil is 3,9kOhms. I wired the pickup parallell.
I routed the mounting ears to something like Bongo pickups have. Now the ears are quite unnoticeable and I can use the whole width of the cover as thumb rest.
So how does it sound? Compared to ceramic SUB5 pickup (parallell wired) this Alnico one has quite a bit softer and rounder sound. With pre-EB Stingray preamp it has a very nice sound. Does it sound like a "real deal"? I don't know, I like it more than ceramic pickup with SUB 5 preamp.
I routed the mounting ears to something like Bongo pickups have. Now the ears are quite unnoticeable and I can use the whole width of the cover as thumb rest.
So how does it sound? Compared to ceramic SUB5 pickup (parallell wired) this Alnico one has quite a bit softer and rounder sound. With pre-EB Stingray preamp it has a very nice sound. Does it sound like a "real deal"? I don't know, I like it more than ceramic pickup with SUB 5 preamp.
6650 in series would make each coil ~3325. Two such coils in parallel would be ~1662.5
You got the maths wrong. If it's 6.6 kOhm in series, it means each coil will be 3.3k.
If each coil is 3.3k, wired in parallel it'll be around 1.6k, so near enough the standard for a Stingray pickup.
Of course, that doesn't really tells us much about the sound, but at least it's consistent with what one should get from a typical Stingray pickup.
edit: SteveCS got there first!
I tried ceramic and neodymium and the difference in night and day. Alnico sounds better to me
Has anyone a circuit diag of a 2 humbucker active MM with 3 position selector. I have a MM Stingray5 clone that the selector switch was installed but never connected! Strangely enough, I still get sound out of it but the battery seems to be wired via the pre-amp and not the socket.
I pulled the thing apart to shield it as there was an induced noise from the lights at my church. 'Tis when I found that the soldering was less than stellar (I can fix that) and the three way switch had no wires connected to it at all, not even any floating wires. I suspect that it was wired as V, T, T and Blend pots.
Here is a picture of the electrics as it stands - NOTE - The cavity was bare wood when I opened it up, copper tape added by me
I pulled the thing apart to shield it as there was an induced noise from the lights at my church. 'Tis when I found that the soldering was less than stellar (I can fix that) and the three way switch had no wires connected to it at all, not even any floating wires. I suspect that it was wired as V, T, T and Blend pots.
Here is a picture of the electrics as it stands - NOTE - The cavity was bare wood when I opened it up, copper tape added by me
Can you do a pencil sketch of how it is wired currently, so that we can guess on the preamp wiring?
Probably not going to be a huge issue, as I've just ordered a Belcat preamp with harness. I might worry about it all when that arrives. From what I gather Black is the earth I suspect the pot on the right -(connected to the socket) is volume.
The red wire (that appears to be connected to the "volume" pot, is not actually connected to that pot, but is the +ve from the battery. The two pots on the left appear to be tone. The one at the top is connected directly to the pickups so it appears to be a balance. I'm guessing that the black and white wires from that pot are the signal input to the pre-amp.
The red wire (that appears to be connected to the "volume" pot, is not actually connected to that pot, but is the +ve from the battery. The two pots on the left appear to be tone. The one at the top is connected directly to the pickups so it appears to be a balance. I'm guessing that the black and white wires from that pot are the signal input to the pre-amp.
An actual EBMM wiring diagram or schematic wont really help you much, for the simple reason that the switch and preamp are quite integrated. It isn't simply a case of selecting 'something' then pushing it through the preamp. The switching circuit includes a range of circuitry on the PCB for balancing and filtering the output differences between the various selections before they go to the EQ section. None of the aftermarket preamps have this, so it is probably best just to hook up the switch in the traditional way and just feed the 'out' of the switch to the in of the preamp and be done with it.
DId a cct diag as it stands the coloured dots are connectors on the Pre amp - no other identifying features ,so definitely a cheap Chinese clone 9v battery and the red wire does not connect to the black earth. for some reason the drawing prog I used would not insert a bump over the black. the dotted line is a white wire the coils for the pickups seem to be wired in Parallel
Back again! My clone sounds great now that I've installed the belcat pramp. And I now have a working three way switch! My clone is way lighter than the genuine article. My son in law has one and we did a side by side comparison. There are quite a few cosmetic differences. With the belcat, sound is close enough.
NOW to the question, His bass needs some TLC as it does not get used as much as his Sterling or his Fender Acoustic bass. Coan anyone tell me what POTS are used in the MM 2H bass form the mid 90's? His are noisy and may need replacement.
NOW to the question, His bass needs some TLC as it does not get used as much as his Sterling or his Fender Acoustic bass. Coan anyone tell me what POTS are used in the MM 2H bass form the mid 90's? His are noisy and may need replacement.
All 2 band StingRays should use either A25K or B25K volume pots (B25K started in the 80s I believe), A100K for bass, and C1M for treble. Let me know if you find a source for some with center detents. They're hard to come by.
What use would centre detents have on a 2 band preamp? They'd have absolutely no bearing on the function.
No they don't.
They make it easier to find the middle throw of the pot, but that in no way correlates to the function of a Music Man 2 Band EQ ; a 3 band EQ is a different design entirely.
Yes, that's exactly what I said. I'm more than aware of how the original StingRay preamp works. When I sit down to play my two band StingRays it's really nice to be able to quickly figure out the middle of the range using a detent. Am I allowed to have a personal preference?
And while I've never seen a schematic for a SBMM two band preamp, a superficial examination of it combined with the fact that they use B25K/C1M/A100K pots tells me that it's probably based on the late 70s StingRay preamp design. After all, C1M and A100K pots are much less common than B250K/B500K pots and if I were looking to make a low-cost bass I wouldn't use C1M/A100K unless I were using the original design.
Given that SBMM somehow feels that it's important enough to spend more to get center detents for their potentiometers on their budget basses I'd wager that most customers prefer them, so I don't think I'm alone in having that preference.
So is it okay if I ask the guy to let me know if he finds a supplier of any?
