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Music Man sound and pickups

#1,201
The Sabre uses a different preamp. So you are comparing apples and oranges. I have no experience with whatever was used in the Sabre. The 4250 opamp used in the original Stingray 2-band preamp draws something like 44 microamps. Using a modern alkaline battery, or even one made way back when, the battery will last five years or so, not "at least one year." That's why I state that the battery life when it is installed will be just as long as the battery life if left on the shelf unattached to anything at all. Clearly not the same as the Sabre.

Is it really worth debating this any further? Science and personal experience trump rumor and hearsay every time, especially when the rumor and hearsay don't even apply to the same device.
 
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#1,202
Stevorebob said:
I found this video and it's graphs instructive: .
I'm sure it's been posted here or in one of the StingRay threads before. I can't imagine it hasn't.

The graphs:
View attachment 5316878 View attachment 5316879 View attachment 5316880

Quick summary:
  • 3-band and 2-band both are bass and treble boost and cut
  • 3-band has a 70Hz HPF; 2-band has no HPF
  • 3-band always has a spike at 4kHz; 2-band only has that spike with the treble boosted
  • 3-band rolls off ultra-highs sooner than 2-band
Not my video, not my findings, but this does mirror my experience with 2- and 3-band StingRays.
Click to expand...



While the graphs are cool, without a reference graph of the raw output of the pickup in the stock position, they are meaningless in terms of cut and boost.

If the "normal" pickup produces a curve identical to the 0% bass and 0% treble settings, then the preamp is indeed a boost only. On the other hand, if the pickup curve is different, the preamp could be cut AND boost.

There is an assumption that the 50% settings for the preamp circuit is "flat".

$.02
 
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#1,203
Stevorebob said:
I found this video and it's graphs instructive: .
I'm sure it's been posted here or in one of the StingRay threads before. I can't imagine it hasn't.

The graphs:
View attachment 5316878 View attachment 5316879 View attachment 5316880

Quick summary:
  • 3-band and 2-band both are bass and treble boost and cut
  • 3-band has a 70Hz HPF; 2-band has no HPF
  • 3-band always has a spike at 4kHz; 2-band only has that spike with the treble boosted
  • 3-band rolls off ultra-highs sooner than 2-band
Not my video, not my findings, but this does mirror my experience with 2- and 3-band StingRays.
Click to expand...


Don't know if it is Modded Squire Bass but if this was the only demo I have heard of Stingray sounds I would never even have considered one both pres sounded awful

I can't get my Special to sound this Bad no matter how I insanely adjust controls:)

I have heard great tones from Pre-Special 3 bands including TB Member @FirewalZ using his '93 3 band

And yes of course great 2 band tones also with none of the nastiness from that Video

IMHO:)
 
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#1,204
If anyone has preamp dissatisfaction, remember the MM PUs sound smooth and clear direct out ie passive.

The sound is still MM but not exaggerated. Quieter.

Your head probably has a better preamp: add gain & EQ it, and you could get a better sound. The FOH or studio will appreciate the clarity. Listen to yourself on headphones and you'll probably like it. It might make you play more acurately.

Make sure your internal wiring is coaxial shielded, your string/PU heights set for an even output, and contemplate alternate wiring of the PU(s) eg series/parallel, coil taps.

Apologies to those who already know it & have said so.
 
#1,205
I've been searching around for an answer, but haven't quite found what I was looking for. So here goes:

Is it possible to add a passive tone control to a 2-band Stingray pre-amp? If so, how? What pot/cap values should I use and how would I wire it?

Thanks!
 
#1,206
I have recently read that 83' and earlier SR 4H pups were in the 1750-1850 ohms range and 1984 and later (non-special) pups were closer to 1950 ohms DC resistance.
Can anyone confirm this and is the difference that big a deal?

Thinking of converting my 07' 3-band to a 2-band, to be a lighter version of my 1983.
 
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#1,207
It can be done but you need to drill another hole for the tone pot. I would use a 500K with a .022uF cap. Then you'll have to drill another hole for the DPDT switch or replace one of the pots with a push pull pot

NeroJazz said:
I've been searching around for an answer, but haven't quite found what I was looking for. So here goes:

Is it possible to add a passive tone control to a 2-band Stingray pre-amp? If so, how? What pot/cap values should I use and how would I wire it?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
 
#1,213
ex-tension said:
Did you check the pickup, is the cover removable?
Click to expand...


I did and it isn't, but I planned on upgrading the pickup at some point, anD would've liked to just swap the cover onto that.

It looks like the old schools ears fit within the same route though, so I have an mm4.2 coming along with a cheap used pickguard from an SB4 that should work.
 
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#1,214
I tried posting this in the SBMM basses thread, but thought I'd post this here.

The new SB14 is listed as having an alnico pickup, but it seems like there's a big bar magnet under it. I was under the impression that that meant it was ceramic.

The ray34 alnico pickups I've seen don't have this bar, and almost every ceramic pickup seen has a magnet like this.

I did reach out to SBMM CS and they just repeated the ad copy to me.

Anyone here have any thoughts?
20240212_141903.jpg
 
#1,215
The large Music Man Stingray's humbucker are 2 coils wired in parallel and this is also a big reason in "it's sound". (Most humbuckers are wired in series.)

Now the USA Sterling has the 3 way switch which allows for, parallel and series (and single coil) but the Sterling's pickup is ceramic and not AlNiCo like the Stingray.

The Stingray's sound is the Stingray's sound!
 
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#1,217
primussucks9126 said:
I tried posting this in the SBMM basses thread, but thought I'd post this here.

The new SB14 is listed as having an alnico pickup, but it seems like there's a big bar magnet under it. I was under the impression that that meant it was ceramic.

The ray34 alnico pickups I've seen don't have this bar, and almost every ceramic pickup seen has a magnet like this.

I did reach out to SBMM CS and they just repeated the ad copy to me.

Anyone here have any thoughts?
View attachment 5352812
Click to expand...
It depends on the design. Ceramic magnets in pickups can be either rods (the polepieces), rails or bars. The same can be for humbuckers. The Gibson PAFs and P90s (both guitar pickups) use bar magnets on each side or in between the bottom of the steel polepieces and/or polepiece screws. Note: in these examples they say Alnico magnets, ceramics humbucker and P90 pickups are typically assembled the same way.

Humbucker:
iu


P90:
iu



My stock RAY4 pickup has a ceramic magnet on the bottom of the poles:

P1030738.JPG


Most ceramic single coil pickups are assembled this way, with the magnets across the bottom of the polepieces.

Bottom line, the magnet location doesn't mean it is a particular type of magnet.
 
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#1,218
MPU said:
Anyone know the height of the Stingray pickup coil? I'm planning to make an Alnico pickup for my Sterling SUB5.
Click to expand...
It really really really depends on which "StingRay" pickup you're talking about and if you're talking about the height of the overall pickup or just the coil part. 1976 Alnico pickup poles are about an inch tall (super long pole pieces). 1977 and beyond Alnico pickups have pole pieces that are 5/8" tall.

I don't have any numbers on the height of just the coils. You'd probably need to disassemble one of the ones you want to copy. Key thing when winding will be the resistance. 1976 pickups were about 1250 ohms. 1977 to 1983 pickups ranged from 1750 to 2000 ohms. 1984 and newer Alnico pickups are 1950 ohms. All are wired in parallel.

Nordstrand created a replica of a 1977 pickup based on one they examined. Those are about 1800 ohms. They sound really nice. Good luck.
 
#1,219
I need to know the height of the coil, distance between the coil bobbins. I've found out (from a pickup makers forum) that the coil height is 0,25" or 6mm, but that sounds and looks pretty narrow when comparing to pics of pickups. I've also found out that one coil has around 4200-4400 rounds of 42AWG wire.
 
#1,220
MPU said:
I need to know the height of the coil, distance between the coil bobbins. I've found out (from a pickup makers forum) that the coil height is 0,25" or 6mm, but that sounds and looks pretty narrow when comparing to pics of pickups. I've also found out that one coil has around 4200-4400 rounds of 42AWG wire.
Click to expand...
Again, make sure you know which pickup you're attempting to copy. There are at least three different EBMM StingRay Alnico pickups out there. Music Man Bass Global - Home. Musicmanbass Global has some information that might help.
 
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