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Music Theory under rated
- Thread starter longfinger
- Start date
- Oct 29, 2005
- 1,038
- 39
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Aguilar Amp Gruv Gear and Mono Cases
- Oct 29, 2005
- 1,038
- 39
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Aguilar Amp Gruv Gear and Mono Cases
- Oct 29, 2005
- 1,038
- 39
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Aguilar Amp Gruv Gear and Mono Cases
Not many times, but always. "Practice precedes theory" is a well-known saying.
Musical practices of a certain era are studied and codified by later practitioners and scholars.
Bach wrote his counterpoint the way he did without any text book to guide him. Same with Mozart's music, etc. etc.
i am so jealous of those who have a background of music theory,,having had guitars when i was in grade/junior high and now decades later i'get into it',,,when;i could have had that
but i won't cry over it i'll study every bass player i can week by week, keep focusing on ear training,being loose in a jam,'reading'and,keep having FUN with it,that is in fact why i wanted an instrument,that and to allow the evil spirits to escape from within' and a lot of times they do; thru my fingers
it's all good if you are having fun,i asked a singer who did the baselines on XXX tape?,,,he said the man's name and that he was retired and didn't play any more,but wow,that man flat layed down some moves on many songs on that tape they did back in 96,,and i'll always wonder why he quit playing,he had the 'theory' alright
but i won't cry over it i'll study every bass player i can week by week, keep focusing on ear training,being loose in a jam,'reading'and,keep having FUN with it,that is in fact why i wanted an instrument,that and to allow the evil spirits to escape from within' and a lot of times they do; thru my fingers
it's all good if you are having fun,i asked a singer who did the baselines on XXX tape?,,,he said the man's name and that he was retired and didn't play any more,but wow,that man flat layed down some moves on many songs on that tape they did back in 96,,and i'll always wonder why he quit playing,he had the 'theory' alright
Both Mozart and Bach had formal training in music theory and read plenty of text books.
Funny how this background didn't prevent them from being amongst the most innovative and influential figures in Western music history.
It can work either way. Music theory can be descriptive or prescriptive.
Chances are that the earliest music theory (e.g., Pythagoras) was based on developing an understanding of existing musical traditions.
On the other hand, musicians have also worked within systems of rules. Medieval church music was governed by harmonic laws that were believed to be sacred. Bach chose rule systems such as the fugue, yet achieved unprecedented creativity. Most classical concertos follow structural rules. Blues has rules. Showing how much fun you can have while obeying rigid rule systems is a game that creative people have always enjoyed.
Artists have invented their own rules in order to break through a creative block. Examples include modal jazz and 12-tone systems. In those cases, theory came before music.
Sometimes, people can come up with a theory and then make some music from that theory, but the music has to "stick" to be relevant to other people not directly involved in the initial experiments. A lot of experiments can be done, in the woodshed, on stage, in the studio, but only a few examples will be "winners". By that time, I'm more inclined to think that people are tinkering with the music directly, and not the theory directly.
And of course the "prescriptive theory" the composers/performers are using to create the music, will not necessarily be the same as the "descriptive theory" used to describe the realities of what they did many decades later by people they do not know.
ie. We study J.S. Bach and we study him using theories of tonal counterpoint in the high baroque style (or tonal counterpoint of J.S. Bach). But J.S. studied the modal counter point of the renaissance and the harmony and tonal counterpoint of the early-mid baroque. The 30 year old J.S. Bach did not have textbooks based on the writing of the 55 year old J.S. Bach to guide him. The theories he used to create his music, are not necessarily the theories we would commonly use to describe his music. (Unless you really wanted to go that way by choice.)
And of course the "prescriptive theory" the composers/performers are using to create the music, will not necessarily be the same as the "descriptive theory" used to describe the realities of what they did many decades later by people they do not know.
ie. We study J.S. Bach and we study him using theories of tonal counterpoint in the high baroque style (or tonal counterpoint of J.S. Bach). But J.S. studied the modal counter point of the renaissance and the harmony and tonal counterpoint of the early-mid baroque. The 30 year old J.S. Bach did not have textbooks based on the writing of the 55 year old J.S. Bach to guide him. The theories he used to create his music, are not necessarily the theories we would commonly use to describe his music. (Unless you really wanted to go that way by choice.)
Fun fact, Bach actually didn't have any "formal" training, the same way that we think of as formal. His training was as a performer, as an organist, and that's actually where he got his renound. He was famous in his lifetime not as a composer, but as an organist, and it wasn't until a lot later he got his compositional prowess recognized.
The way he trained himself in composition was by copying scores. A lot of scores. Thousands of them, and by doing that, and by seeing for himself how things were done, he was able to learn and teach himself how to be the greatest polyphonist ever to live. This was before Rameau developed the theory of functional harmony, mind you, so Bach essentially learned all of this counterpoint using the crude theoretical understanding of the time and his own understanding of what was happening in the music.
This lesson basically says, if you want to become a master and don't want to deal with formal training, be prepared to spend 10 years copying scores note for note.
I assume your music education may be limited so please don't take it personally if your question and explanations here were hypothetical.
As for middle C, it's usually the starting point in Piano lessons due to it's simplicity to understand and is in the middle of the keyboard. You are incorrect suggesting that it was made that way for ease and location.
The musical scale was discovered centuries ago by a Greek mathematician and the intervals of semi tones and whole tones have long been determined. So your hypothesis would suggest that a extra black key in every octave would have made middle C harder to find so pianos weren't built with it. That is incorrect.
As for sharps/flats, it is key dependent if a sharp or flat can be a black or white key. The F# Major scale has an E# in it, yet the key one would visualize if they didn't know better is the F key. That would be a enharmonic equivalent. This same scales enharmonic equivalent would be the Gb Major scale which has a Cb in it's key signature yet one would probably view that as a B.
All instruments of pitch follow the same rules yet obviously not all have white and black keys or frets to locate notes. This is where knowing and hearing the difference between whole tones and semi tones come into play.
Here is $20.00 worth of music lessons...
White keys and black keys can be both whole tones and half tones dependent to what key you are playing in. Take any key of the Major scale and the formula in order of whole tones and semi tones are the same, i.e.
Whole Tone - W.Tone - Semitone - W.Tone - W.Tone - W.Tone - Semitone- W.tone (octave)
So yes a C major scale, the most basic because there are no "black" keys is nothing more than C D E F G A B C and the 2 semi tones are between E-F and B-C .
But if you played an E major scale the notes would be E F# G# A B C# D# E and the semi tones would fall between G# and A and D# and E
So you can see the semi tones are always after the third note and the seventh note from the root in every key signature of the Major scale and could be a black key or white.
When you learn the basic building blocks of scales and chords and how they are constructed, the formulas are the same in every key signature.
Music theory isn't hard at all, in the beginning at least. A lot of it is based off formulas and methods to ease the learning process. It is in the grasps of everyone but I'm sorry to say that most people are too lazy and make up every kind of excuse to justify not learning it.
- Oct 29, 2005
- 1,038
- 39
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Aguilar Amp Gruv Gear and Mono Cases
- Oct 29, 2005
- 1,038
- 39
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Aguilar Amp Gruv Gear and Mono Cases
