Musical Memory: Born with, or learned?

[hrodbert696]

There was a big nature-vs-nurture thread a while back about "talent" that would be worth doing a search for. In this case, though, I like that the question isn't about "talent" in a vague sense but a specific capability, the ability to remember music.

I think the answer is that it isn't necessarily something people are born with, but that it's understandable it wouldn't come easily to you at an older age. This is the kind of thing that falls squarely in the realm of neuroplasticity - the way the brain develops over time as we grow and as it responds to stimulus by growing connections between neurons. Basically, when we do things with our brains, our neurons hardwire themselves into the patterns needed to do those things. The brain does this a LOT, and easily, when we're young (think the old saw about riding a bike); as we grow older, our ability to wire new connections slows down. But connections made young remain, imprinted deep - people with dementia who played piano in their youth will still be able to give a recital of their favorite songs even though they can't recognize their own spouse's face.

So I suspect what you're experiencing is that you're trying to train your neurons to a new task that's unfamiliar - remembering musical patterns - and they're slow to form the links or don't retain them very firmly. That doesn't mean you'll never be able to build that memory - you're not dead yet! - but it will just be a more gradual process. Time and repetition are the key.

 

[HardNHeavy]

i've learnt everything by ear..it stays with me, like riding a bike. i cant forget it. Will run thru a song a few times just to refresh at home..Then go to rehearsal and met with jealousy of guitar player for knowing the song so well

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

IME, I have found that a lot of 'readers' don't memorize music. Ear learners retain a whole lot more in the their memory. I was in a band of mostly music professionals (teachers, armed services musicians, etc) and after 3 years of playing the same material still had the music in front of them.

I started reading (clarinet/sax) in 3rd grade, so "assumed" playing music meant reading music.

In 7th grade, I started playing bass only by ear. Self-taught, and used volume to compensate for skill.

I do think a lot of it is "nature vs. nurture" as implied in a post above, but I also agree with comments above about internalizing the parts (for me, hearing the part before I play it), and dedicating parts to muscle memory. I am finding most of my muscle memory is major and minor pentatonic, but I am learning more: more scales and riffs. Digging dorian at the moment.

Suffice it to say I was not one of those 2-year-olds that just "magically" start playing piano...

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

There was a big nature-vs-nurture thread a while back about "talent" that would be worth doing a search for. In this case, though, I like that the question isn't about "talent" in a vague sense but a specific capability, the ability to remember music.

I think the answer is that it isn't necessarily something people are born with, but that it's understandable it wouldn't come easily to you at an older age. This is the kind of thing that falls squarely in the realm of neuroplasticity - the way the brain develops over time as we grow and as it responds to stimulus by growing connections between neurons. Basically, when we do things with our brains, our neurons hardwire themselves into the patterns needed to do those things. The brain does this a LOT, and easily, when we're young (think the old saw about riding a bike); as we grow older, our ability to wire new connections slows down. But connections made young remain, imprinted deep - people with dementia who played piano in their youth will still be able to give a recital of their favorite songs even though they can't recognize their own spouse's face.

So I suspect what you're experiencing is that you're trying to train your neurons to a new task that's unfamiliar - remembering musical patterns - and they're slow to form the links or don't retain them very firmly. That doesn't mean you'll never be able to build that memory - you're not dead yet! - but it will just be a more gradual process. Time and repetition are the key.

Good point. I have noticed over the years that new skills - if a major part of my life - do tend to "take over" my way of thinking.

 

[ThomasTronics]

I think changing your practice might help.
For me to learn some licks or passes that are "leading the song". I would set up a drum beat on my looper. Just straight 4/4 and practice the bass line and the lick. It's also great practice for time and groove to use a beat box or drum machine.

Some people are gifted and some people work hard on it but i think we can all learn to retain songs.

 

[LBS-bass]

The key is to just internalize the stuff as much as possible so that the music becomes part of you and comes from within, not from the iPad, or not from clues from another player.

This is really a good point. The music I grew up with from the classic rock era is easy for me to play; I am in a band that does that music right now and I never have to learn anything, because it is all inside me already. There are songs I've played for the first time with that band while we were on stage. The reason it's in there is because I heard it so much growing up that I couldn't help but commit it to memory. It happened on its own.

New stuff that I've never heard I have to get to that same place with, and there's nothing to be done other than to sit down with it and listen until it's in there in the same way. Once it's all been crammed into the memory banks, I won't need any charts or notes. The most important part of practice for me is listening.

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

I think changing your practice might help.
For me to learn some licks or passes that are "leading the song". I would set up a drum beat on my looper. Just straight 4/4 and practice the bass line and the lick. It's also great practice for time and groove to use a beat box or drum machine.

Some people are gifted and some people work hard on it but i think we can all learn to retain songs.

Yep, that is one of my "go-to" practice routines. Hoping to retain some memory from sheer repetition. Also want simultaneously work on my sense of time,

Short-term, it doesn't help that we are simultaneously short-staffed and increasing workload at work... never enough time.

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

This is really a good point. The music I grew up with from the classic rock era is easy for me to play; I am in a band that does that music right now and I never have to learn anything, because it is all inside me already. There are songs I've played for the first time with that band while we were on stage. The reason it's in there is because I heard it so much growing up that I couldn't help but commit it to memory. It happened on its own.

New stuff that I've never heard I have to get to that same place with, and there's nothing to be done other than to sit down with it and listen until it's in there in the same way. Once it's all been crammed into the memory banks, I won't need any charts or notes. The most important part of practice for me is listening.

Interesting point. As a teenager in the '70s, I had little more than top-40 (not much money for recorded music). Between top-40, and the songs we played at parties, I heard the same songs OVER AND OVER again. Now, I just practice alone, and have an unbelievable variety of songs via Apple Music.

Also, most of the R&R songs I played were pretty darn simple.

 

[SteveCS]

...
...
Hoping to retain some memory from sheer repetition.
...

For that to work you need to make sure that you are repeating the right thing. Un-learning and re-learning are much more difficult and less effective than just learning.

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

For that to work you need to make sure that you are repeating the right thing. Un-learning and re-learning are much more difficult and less effective than just learning.

Yep...
...I am finding not everything is a major or minor pentatonic, on-the-beat, with 8ths and 1/4 notes.

Sadly, much of my muscle memory begs to differ.

 

[Pdaddy1978]

My memory at 62 is just fine thank you...
Wait...
What was the question again?

 

[bassdude51]

I can't directly answer the question but for me, a lot of songs fall into chord progression patterns and that helps me remember bass lines.

My old bass teacher who had a masters degree in music told me that the 1-4-5 chord pattern makes up about 70% of all song ever written.

Make a Cd of many of your songs that you can play and at least 6 times a year go through the compilation of songs to keep your memory refreshed.

 

[Bassamatic]

Tonal Memory and Rhythm Memory are innate, measurable aptitudes. I did a lot of work in this area in my previous life as a psychologist. You are born with whatever level of it you now have. Please note that the replies you get here are skewed - if people didn't have it, they wouldn't be here to begin with!

We are all born with a set of aptitudes that cannot be changed any more than eye and hair color. Unfortunately, we have no real way to innately know what all of our aptitudes are, what aptitudes we are lacking, or how they compare to others. Fortunately, there is a way, if you are interested, to find out this extremely valuable information.

You can learn more about human aptitudes and how knowing them can make your life so much better here - www.jocrf.org They are a 100 year-old, non-profit research foundation. Knowing your aptitudes can help you make the right decisions about your life instead of just guessing.

"I know what I want to do" is NOT a good way to structure your life - it depends only on what you know or have experienced. There may be many things that you have never tried or considered that would be a much better fit to your set of aptitudes. www.jocrf.org

 

[jamro217]

Memory full, delete unwanted files to gain space. Your brain only can hold so much information. Useless data like the name of your third grade teacher takes up the same amount of space as the opening three measures of the next tune in the set list. I try to use memorization tricks (like remembering intervals from common examples)* but that only works if you have the time to think them through. When you're rushed or tired you might not remember them. Interval training can be a more useful tool than learning scales because it has multiple applications. It helps you can remember songs, allows you figure out songs without sheet music, gives you insight into where to go when soloing, and can even be used to analyze chords (valuable information when writing or arranging). Any form of mental stimulation can increase memory or brain function. Use it lose it. I believe we all have some level of inherent ability and are able to cultivate whatever amount we do have in order to reach our potential. However you decide to approach this, one thing is certain: you won't progress if you don't try. Hope this helps. Don't give up.

 

[GreyBeard]

Oldish guy here, early 60s. I am frustrated with my "musical memory". Wondering what sort of things can improve it. I am pretty good with theory and improvisation, but remembering musical phrases/riffs without written music is my weakest link.

Mind-you, I only practice 30-60 minutes a day, and only recently started playing again. Still, with covers, I used to wait until the guitar started playing, and then I would have an "oh that's right" moment, and the bass line would come back to me.

Similarly, I can't tell a joke or story to save me, so I know my memory for sequences is weak. I am pretty good explaining complex things (similar to improvisation), but my verbatim verbal memory stinks.

BTW, I know singing along with playing is best practice, but I had surgery, and my vocal range is only about a 4th.

I've seen what you describe a few times. Guys I played with in the past that had good memories, took several years off, and now can't remember much. I guess what you don't use you lose.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Back in the day, we took notes in class, wrote things down and maybe, just maybe, that wired our brains for note taking, physically writing things. I know I remember things better when I write them on paper even more so than taking a note on the iPad or even typing it on the laptop. My memory weirdness, besides names, is that I usually don't remember how movies end. I'll remember tons of details throughout, but the ending? Who knows.

 

[Element Zero]

You’ve got a ton of responses and my bet would be that you’ll never read this but…

Pick 20 songs that you really like. Cover songs. Play them over and over and over again. And I mean like within a weeks time, play each song at LEAST 30 times.

In my experience, repetition is the key to “memory”. Over the last decade, this is how I’ve learned and been able to remember and recall a few hundred songs at a moments whim.

 

[SteveCS]

...
...
I know I remember things better when I write them on paper even more so than taking a note on the iPad or even typing it on the laptop.
...

This ^^. It gives you a chance to review and validate before memorization, so you only have to learn once.

 

[doran.dragic]

IME, I have found that a lot of 'readers' don't memorize music. Ear learners retain a whole lot more in the their memory. I was in a band of mostly music professionals (teachers, armed services musicians, etc) and after 3 years of playing the same material still had the music in front of them.

I think you're right when you say that ear learners retain more. However, from my experience most of readers are able to memorise songs good enough but tend to do keep sheets because it's practical.

I memorise music mostly by ears but when I started playing with a lot of different bands and I'd play same song in different keys or arranged differently I realised sheets give me a sense of security. I'm still able to nail most of the songs without sheets good enough and transpose on the fly though and this happens now and then if I forget to bring sheets but it's not something that I'd want to happen on a good paying gig.

I've done gigs where I was asked not to use sheets and I'd always ask for more money since it requires more time.

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

Tonal Memory and Rhythm Memory are innate, measurable aptitudes. I did a lot of work in this area in my previous life as a psychologist. You are born with whatever level of it you now have. Please note that the replies you get here are skewed - if people didn't have it, they wouldn't be here to begin with!

We are all born with a set of aptitudes that cannot be changed any more than eye and hair color. Unfortunately, we have no real way to innately know what all of our aptitudes are, what aptitudes we are lacking, or how they compare to others. Fortunately, there is a way, if you are interested, to find out this extremely valuable information.

You can learn more about human aptitudes and how knowing them can make your life so much better here - www.jocrf.org They are a 100 year-old, non-profit research foundation. Knowing your aptitudes can help you make the right decisions about your life instead of just guessing.

"I know what I want to do" is NOT a good way to structure your life - it depends only on what you know or have experienced. There may be many things that you have never tried or considered that would be a much better fit to your set of aptitudes. www.jocrf.org

I think I have enough innate aptitude to join the "Mediocre Bass Player" club here. Mostly, I did not remain a musician. While I started music in third-grade, I would skip many years of not playing. Also, never gigged: always just played for fun.

Strictly speaking though, I would say I "don't got it" in anything more than a moderate measure, and quitting my "day job" would be ill-advised.