Narcissism? Because why, I don't lemming with everything you say and tell you you're right?
The only thing I've asserted is just because it's published and popular doesn't mean that it holds any water.
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must everything "pop"?
- Thread starter scorpionldr
- Start date
Narcissism? Because why, I don't lemming with everything you say and tell you you're right?
The only thing I've asserted is just because it's published and popular doesn't mean that it holds any water.
hey man, they were a controversial band. everybody hated them and they kept on releasing records.
thats a rather futile way of looking at something, isn't it? that because someone with an opinion doesn't rock out drag to broadcast it that nobody will care? Real nice there.
and yea, it may be someone's personal blog, but it's in the public domain for other people to read. It makes a good point: writing a song called "born this way" after getting your own face worked over by plastic surgeons is certainly fake.
Must everything pop? No. Do you want rockstar-esque success? Then you have to make it pop. Not a difficult concept really.
I could be wrong, but it doesn't appear he was criticizing you, but the deplorable aspects of much of pop music itself.
Right... That's all there is to it.
Scorpion, I get that you have a profound dislike for pop, that's clear. Every last "point" you have used to try to make you opinion of pop the opinion has failed. You consistenty address opposing opinions by first remixing them adding exaggerated hyperbole making the original statement disappear then commenting on your version and conveniently disregarding what others are saying.
This tactic may make you feel right, but it doesn't make you right. Fact is, your opinion is naive and cliche. Most of us have had similar gripes about genres of music that we don't personally dig, but most of us also understand that it's our opinion.
You seem quite uncomfortable with this idea. You are not right about most of what you have said about pop. You are entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is not substantial enough to effectively sub for reality. Believing it is is delusional.
Pop is a perfectly legitimate form of music and art. Pop artists cover the spectrum from mediocre to spectacular. The talent required to create great pop is equal to that required to make the type of music you enjoy and your condescending attitude and opinions are not going to change that.
If what you're trying to say is that the priorities of the people of the world are very backwards then I will have to agree with you. I think your argument about music is just a side effect of a greater problem that we all fail to recognize on a regular basis. This is the world we live in... I honestly don't know how I feel about Lady Gaga; she's just doing her thing. I do however, have a very special place in my heart for a girl who absolutely adores Lady Gaga. I feel your struggle man.. people tend not to look any farther than their local "pop hits" radio station and couldn't care less about any talented musicians who are working their a$$es off to make loving and sincere music. I play in a band that I love and put a lot of love and energy into and no member of my family has even listened to the album. We live in a world where people want to experience instant gratification and some of the artists you mention and a lot of what you hear on the radio offers that to them. What can we do but continue to pour our love and energy into the music that moves us while hoping it can move somebody else.
Discussions like thiis sometimes bother me. You're criticizing 5 chords for not being unique.
You're playing a bass guitar (one of the most ubiquitous instruments out there) using a 12 tone temperament system, probably tying it together with traditional western harmony and melody. You're also probably tuned to A440, and I'll even go so far as to guess that you're tuned to E, Eb, or D with potentially an A, Bb, or B string below it. Since you play metal, maybe lower, but probably 4ths or a dropped 5th.
You'll usually find me playing Protest the Hero, Avenged Sevenfold.Opeth, Tool, or Symphony X. They all have their chord progressions, scale patterns, and even vocal harmonies that they recycle from song to song, no matter how complicated they may be.
Lately I've been loving Adele, Lady Antebellum, Train, and Avril Lavigne.
I personally would like to see things a little less contrived, but music just is.
You're playing a bass guitar (one of the most ubiquitous instruments out there) using a 12 tone temperament system, probably tying it together with traditional western harmony and melody. You're also probably tuned to A440, and I'll even go so far as to guess that you're tuned to E, Eb, or D with potentially an A, Bb, or B string below it. Since you play metal, maybe lower, but probably 4ths or a dropped 5th.
You'll usually find me playing Protest the Hero, Avenged Sevenfold.Opeth, Tool, or Symphony X. They all have their chord progressions, scale patterns, and even vocal harmonies that they recycle from song to song, no matter how complicated they may be.
Lately I've been loving Adele, Lady Antebellum, Train, and Avril Lavigne.
I personally would like to see things a little less contrived, but music just is.
instant gratification is an absolute contributor to the issue. Most of us set our goals extremely low when our ability levels are extremely high. I might sound a little crazy but that's always made me ask, "so what am I doing __________ for?" Like why work on improving if your only expected to play at a certain level?
One that changes the topic when it knows it's losing
lol you think I'm suddenly going to wake up and go "oh, pop of course was the pinnacle of our society, we need not develop any further because music simply never gets more complex than this"?
I'm merely trying to put some direction to the main message of what I'm saying.
Is pop music considerable as art? I never said it wasn't, I just said it seemed like poor art.
You really want to know how I view pop as? Its like.........software. Windows 7 for instance. And someone makes a piece in paint, a couple pie charts in excel, and goes "look what Windows can do!". Meanwhile every other computer company looks disapprovingly and adds "yea, you and your horse, you're not the only one".
What I mean in that analogy is yea, pop is art. And it may be pretty good. But I see it as nothing more than a commercial demonstration of the possibilities of what can be made in a musical capacity. That's what the genre is for me. There are no deep emotions, no melodies you have to listen to several times to hear; all you are hearing is rudiments applied in a rather pleasant way that makes the average man say "hey! I like this!"
And that's OK. But I just hate when people look down on me smugly simply because I aspire to achieve something more.
hell, you've seen, I'm even liking of dubstep.
You know why people look down on you? It's because you think that it is everyone else who is being smug.
and judging from the responses to this thread I have no evidence suggesting otherwise.
In one sense I agree with you. Most popular music is simple and easily digestible (for lack of a better word). And a lot of music that is more difficult to understand isn't very popular.
However, I would encourage you to think about a few things:
1. There are other crafts involved in making a hit record besides "shredding". Listen to a Michael Jackson record. You won't hear dazzling speed, complex harmony, or changing time signatures. You will hear a lush, dense, multi-layered production that is very difficult to achieve. They'll use 32 tracks just for the vocals - try to do that at home and not have it sound like mud. You will also hear a catchy (if simple) melody and a groovy beat that makes people want to dance. Coming up with simple melodies and beats that people like isn't easy.
2. There are now, and have always been, people composing and performing difficult music in many different styles. Go to youtube and search for "Cherokee", you will find people playing this jazz standard at 300 bpm or more. These guys are doing at 360: Try to play a walking line on upright at that speed, let alone solo. Go back further and you can find recordings of jazz and ragtime piano players from the 1930s that will blow your mind. The speed, improvisation, and the deep understanding of harmony rival anything being done today. I'm sure there were virtuoso players long before that; we just don't have recordings of them because the technology didn't exist. Every new generation of young people seems to think they are the first to play really challenging music. They aren't.
3. By all means, be true to yourself and make the music that inspires you. You won't do the world any favors by dumbing down your art to make it popular. But realize that while a lot of great music hasn't been popular, simply being unpopular (and technically difficult) doesn't make it great.
Your argument seems to imply that pop is too easy and players who play it are not challenging themselves musically or artistically. I have played music from most popular genres (and don't fool yourself, metal is pop too) and I have found that there are easy and challenging songs in all genres.
I played with a drummer in the past who had a similar distaste for pop. We had a Jackson 5 song show up on our list and he said most of the same stuff you are saying about pop in general - that he had no respect for it or it's artists - right up until he had to learn it.
While it didn't give him the insane cardiovascular workout that he associated with "challenging" genres, he was shocked by the complexity and detail and he was indeed challenged by it in ways he'd never considered before.
Fact is that good pop is just as challenging (in different ways) as any other genre to play well. If it is not, you are probably playing it wrong.
IMO and IME writing off entire genres is a mistake for any musician. The only purpose that serves is to limit musical opportunities. No one is saying you have to like every song or every genre, but you should be able to appreciate all music without needing to dismiss the music you just don't get.
I would also argue that the most interesting songs from any genre demonstrate elements of other genres. The are always songs that stand out and cross genre boundaries. The don't do that by being musically intolerant. The best, broadest players and bands embrace music. They don't sit around on high horses stroking their own egos by snubbing so-called inferior music.
Do what you will. IMO you are voluntarily limiting yourself by choosing to dismiss pop.
I played with a drummer in the past who had a similar distaste for pop. We had a Jackson 5 song show up on our list and he said most of the same stuff you are saying about pop in general - that he had no respect for it or it's artists - right up until he had to learn it.
While it didn't give him the insane cardiovascular workout that he associated with "challenging" genres, he was shocked by the complexity and detail and he was indeed challenged by it in ways he'd never considered before.
Fact is that good pop is just as challenging (in different ways) as any other genre to play well. If it is not, you are probably playing it wrong.
IMO and IME writing off entire genres is a mistake for any musician. The only purpose that serves is to limit musical opportunities. No one is saying you have to like every song or every genre, but you should be able to appreciate all music without needing to dismiss the music you just don't get.
I would also argue that the most interesting songs from any genre demonstrate elements of other genres. The are always songs that stand out and cross genre boundaries. The don't do that by being musically intolerant. The best, broadest players and bands embrace music. They don't sit around on high horses stroking their own egos by snubbing so-called inferior music.
Do what you will. IMO you are voluntarily limiting yourself by choosing to dismiss pop.
- Apr 1, 2000
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To me, the very definition of a great melody is one that is immediately singable. While I enjoy more complex music, you cannot compare the greatness of say "Yesterday" to "Chromozome." They're both awesome, but only one of them has a *great* melody.
And trust me, if pop hits were easy, everyone would have one.
this is subjective, isn't it? i think that's the main point of many of the posts in this thread. so now that we can agree music is subjective, we can agree there is no such thing as truly good or truly bad music. there is just music. individuals can decide whether they consider it good or not. it just seems like a lot of wasted time and energy to be worrying about what other people are listening to. i can think of a better use for this time: play bass!
this is subjective, isn't it? i think that's the main point of many of the posts in this thread. so now that we can agree music is subjective, we can agree there is no such thing as truly good or truly bad music. there is just music. individuals can decide whether they consider it good or not. it just seems like a lot of wasted time and energy to be worrying about what other people are listening to. i can think of a better use for this time: play bass!
I can't agree there is no such thing as truly good or truly bad music. There is music that's exquisite, music that's horrible, and music in between.
