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My amp hates my new bass :(

Sorry in advance for the long post. I'm really hoping someone has some insight, other than "try some other amps" :)
I have a 3 week old Bee and I'm finding it very hard to get it to play nice with my amp. When I first picked it up it sounded outstanding plugged into my Hartke 7000 with basically the same settings I used to run with a passive P-Bass copy with Bartolini pickups. That is it sounded great at 'playing in the hotel room and at home with people there levels'. Then my first rehearsal 2 weeks ago with the new bass and I could barely play it. The strings were contacting the naked poles on the pickup (easily fixed since then) but even when they weren't making contact the amp was clipping like crazy and way too overdriven even if I turned down the inputs (the hartke has both a tube and solid state preamp section, and I used a blend, mostly tube).
I talked to Fred about it and tried some things we discussed. I moved the action up to get the strings away from the pickup, and then dropped the pickup to get them further away because it was still way overdriven even when the string was never contacting the poles of the pickup. I tried it into my mixer at home, and straight into my soundcard and it sounds better, but still pretty hot.
I turned the preamps way down (the solid state is off and the tube is at 2). I've been playing with the volume on the bass set to about 3/4 full. With things set like this (on board compression set to off, because it sounds like ass with it on-I've always played with it on (lowest setting) with the P bass, but the compressor doesn't seem to deal well with the signal from this bass) it sounds pretty good most of the time, but the open B string always sounds a bit overdriven, and if I really dig into either it or the E, it clearly distorts.
I feel like maybe the Hartke inputs are just too hot for the preamp on this bass (even with the passive P I always used the active input on the Hartke). I've tried every combination of settings I can think of, and if I get it to the point where it doesn't distort when I dig into the strings, then normal playing sounds flat and lifeless. I think this bass is producing a lot more low end info than my other one, and I want to be able to take advantage of that, so just turning all the on-board bass down isn't an option either.

Here are some options I'm considering:

1) get a good outboard compressor
2) have Fred rewire the pickup to parallel (instead of series)
3) drop the pickup even further away from the strings (I'll probably try this because it's the least work and no cost, but I'm afraid I'm going to end up with a very thin sound)
4) start looking for an amp that likes very hot inputs.

:confused:
 
Sometimes when you play an instrument with a hot output you have to make adjustments in your playing style. If the strings were not in contact with the poles at first then your truss rod has settled a bit. Drop the pickup height as much as you need, lower the volume on the bass further and play with a much lighter touch. Another option would be to pad the amps input ala "active" inputs a couple of resistors is all you need for this. Try bass to 33KΩ to 470K to ground, amp input to junction of the two resistors. If it's still too hot increase 33K to 47K then 68K until you get a satifactory level.

Paul
 
Hi.

Some combinations act like that.

I just recently bought a Washburn T-24, and the tone i get with my tube Fame is like an hair in Your ***, thin and unclean ;). NOTHING like the sound of the Epi Thunderbird I usually play.

With my SWR WM10 it sounds "normal". And the Epi sounds good through that amp too.

If the additional tweakin of the amp controls and setup doesn't make it any better and Pauls suggestion about a DIY pad doesn't work either, the only option IMHO is another set of pickups or another amp/pre/pedal/whatever, that is more compatible with Your current pickups.

Regards
Sam
 
I had the same problem with my Hartke kig and my newer G&L L2500. My final solution is that I'm buying a new L2500 friendly rig in addition to the Hartke. I've been wanting a new amp/cab(s), and this is as good an excuse as any.
 
Does the bass have an option to trim so you are not hitting the preamp as hard. My Roscoes and Rob Allen have this.

Assuming your P with Barts is passive I would think you are experiencing the difference between setting you need for passive vs. active. I've only ever used active basses but I've had an owner or a passive Rick play through my rig and we had to crank the input gain on the iAMP I had at the time to get anywhere near to lighting the LED level indicator to the same extent as I did my basses. Same experience with a Dingwall.

You'll have different input settings on a passive vs really hot preamp equipped bass. Had I tried to play my active basses with the same setting as the Rickie it would have been unbelievably loud.
 
Does the bass have an option to trim so you are not hitting the preamp as hard. My Roscoes and Rob Allen have this.

Assuming your P with Barts is passive I would think you are experiencing the difference between setting you need for passive vs. active. I've only ever used active basses but I've had an owner or a passive Rick play through my rig and we had to crank the input gain on the iAMP I had at the time to get anywhere near to lighting the LED level indicator to the same extent as I did my basses. Same experience with a Dingwall.

You'll have different input settings on a passive vs really hot preamp equipped bass. Had I tried to play my active basses with the same setting as the Rickie it would have been unbelievably loud.

maybe I didn't make it clear, but I've definitely tried different settings compared to those I ran with the P (passive) bass. The strange thing is that even with the P bass I only ran the preamps at like 4 on the tube and 1-2 on the SS side, and with that I got a very aggressive 'growly' sound. So maybe the Hartke just has very sensitive inputs, dunno.

I'm thinking I need to figure out how to try some other amps. The tough thing is finding a sympathetic shop that will let me drag my cabs in, and crank it up for a while with a couple of different amps. Or find somebody who will let me take their nice GenzBenz/Aguilar/Eden 700-800W head to rehearsal and give it a workout. :bassist:
 
Sometimes when you play an instrument with a hot output you have to make adjustments in your playing style. If the strings were not in contact with the poles at first then your truss rod has settled a bit. Drop the pickup height as much as you need, lower the volume on the bass further and play with a much lighter touch. Another option would be to pad the amps input ala "active" inputs a couple of resistors is all you need for this. Try bass to 33KΩ to 470K to ground, amp input to junction of the two resistors. If it's still too hot increase 33K to 47K then 68K until you get a satifactory level.

Paul

this is an interesting option, but I feel like there maybe a new amp in my future (although I was hoping it was not the near future, since I just bought a new custom bass :(), and I don't want to mod the amp and possibly hurt it's used resale value..
 
this is an interesting option, but I feel like there maybe a new amp in my future (although I was hoping it was not the near future, since I just bought a new custom bass :(), and I don't want to mod the amp and possibly hurt it's used resale value..

You don't have to mod the amp! Two resistors will fit inside the phone plug barrel of a cable at the amp end.

Paul
 
well, in an effort to further troubleshoot this issue, I took my bass down to Bass Northwest and played through a few different amps. The vedict is that (at least for the way I play/EQ) this bass has crazy hot output. It was basically overdriven with every amp I tried, and even was overloading the input on an EBS compressor pedal I tried out. Evan (one of the co-owners) said he'd never seen that before...
So I have a message in to Fred to see what we can do about it. I dropped the pickup further away from the strings and it's better, but it appears to have bottomed out in the body cavity, so I'm out of adjustment.

On a positive note, I ended up bringing home a shuttle 6.0 :) I'm not 100% sure it's going to work out for me but I'm getting pretty incredible tone out of it (with the volume on the bass down about 1/3 :hmm:) and the power seems great, although it's very hard to tell when playing at home. The nicest thing is that I can set it up so that when I really dig and it overloads, it's a pleasant tube distortion, rather than the terrible clipping that the Hartke had (even when using only the tube preamp section) The test will be at rehearsal this Wed with 2 guitars and a loud-ass drummer. Bass Northwest, as usual, has been very cool, and are allowing me an extended test drive. I hope it works out. The Shuttle has some really great things going for it, not the least of which is the 40 something pounds it saves over the Hartke...
 
Dude, I was going to suggest to you maybe you might want to look at another amp, but apparently you did ;) Hartke makes a good solid workingman's amp, but if you're playing a Bee, it's kind of like putting an engine from a VW Bug into a limo.

I wouldn't rule out making a pickup change, either. Some of these boutique builders use pickups and preamps that are crazy hot, and they're great for someone with a very light touch who needs some oomph to their tone, but for someone who likes to dig in a little, they can be too much. And since you should never let the bass dictate to you how to play, I'd consider getting a toned down set of electronics.
 
Dude, I was going to suggest to you maybe you might want to look at another amp, but apparently you did ;) Hartke makes a good solid workingman's amp, but if you're playing a Bee, it's kind of like putting an engine from a VW Bug into a limo.

I wouldn't rule out making a pickup change, either. Some of these boutique builders use pickups and preamps that are crazy hot, and they're great for someone with a very light touch who needs some oomph to their tone, but for someone who likes to dig in a little, they can be too much. And since you should never let the bass dictate to you how to play, I'd consider getting a toned down set of electronics.

Yeah that's exactly what I've been feeling. I think this set up is just way too hot for the way I play. I'm going to talk to Fred about perhaps another pickup option, or at least a different wiring option..
 
Sorry in advance for the long post. I'm really hoping someone has some insight, other than "try some other amps" :)
I have a 3 week old Bee and I'm finding it very hard to get it to play nice with my amp. When I first picked it up it sounded outstanding plugged into my Hartke 7000 with basically the same settings I used to run with a passive P-Bass copy with Bartolini pickups. That is it sounded great at 'playing in the hotel room and at home with people there levels'. Then my first rehearsal 2 weeks ago with the new bass and I could barely play it. The strings were contacting the naked poles on the pickup (easily fixed since then) but even when they weren't making contact the amp was clipping like crazy and way too overdriven even if I turned down the inputs (the hartke has both a tube and solid state preamp section, and I used a blend, mostly tube).
I talked to Fred about it and tried some things we discussed. I moved the action up to get the strings away from the pickup, and then dropped the pickup to get them further away because it was still way overdriven even when the string was never contacting the poles of the pickup. I tried it into my mixer at home, and straight into my soundcard and it sounds better, but still pretty hot.
I turned the preamps way down (the solid state is off and the tube is at 2). I've been playing with the volume on the bass set to about 3/4 full. With things set like this (on board compression set to off, because it sounds like ass with it on-I've always played with it on (lowest setting) with the P bass, but the compressor doesn't seem to deal well with the signal from this bass) it sounds pretty good most of the time, but the open B string always sounds a bit overdriven, and if I really dig into either it or the E, it clearly distorts.
I feel like maybe the Hartke inputs are just too hot for the preamp on this bass (even with the passive P I always used the active input on the Hartke). I've tried every combination of settings I can think of, and if I get it to the point where it doesn't distort when I dig into the strings, then normal playing sounds flat and lifeless. I think this bass is producing a lot more low end info than my other one, and I want to be able to take advantage of that, so just turning all the on-board bass down isn't an option either.

Here are some options I'm considering:

1) get a good outboard compressor
2) have Fred rewire the pickup to parallel (instead of series)
3) drop the pickup even further away from the strings (I'll probably try this because it's the least work and no cost, but I'm afraid I'm going to end up with a very thin sound)
4) start looking for an amp that likes very hot inputs.

:confused:

Sorry if I'm pointing out the obvious, but have you checked the battery(ies) in the bass? Distortion when you dig in and thin sound when you don't are the symptoms of a dying battery.
 
I appreciate the battery suggestions. It was one of the first things I tried (replaced both batteries with brand new ones, didn't change anything). The sound is actually excellent when I play soft, just goes crazy when I dig.

I spoke to Fred today and he's looking into alternate pickups, and is going to be coming up this way in the next few weeks with a spare preamp, new pickup and his soldering iron. We'll get to the bottom of this yet.
 
Cheap batteries can cause problems - even if they are fresh.

Sounds like an issue with the bass preamp or its power supply to me.

I have a spector with active EMGs and its really hot... but I can't get it to distort the input on my carvin B1500....even with full bass boost. A top notch preamp with tons of headroom should be able to handle the hottest pickups out there I think.

I appreciate the battery suggestions. It was one of the first things I tried (replaced both batteries with brand new ones, didn't change anything). The sound is actually excellent when I play soft, just goes crazy when I dig.

I spoke to Fred today and he's looking into alternate pickups, and is going to be coming up this way in the next few weeks with a spare preamp, new pickup and his soldering iron. We'll get to the bottom of this yet.