My Bass Is Stuck In Customs

[VoodooJazz]

I think the issue now is with UPS, not the US Government.

My experience after long affiliation with the US Gov’t is that the procedures are often arcane and outdated. But if one just suspends judgement about the process and just follows it, one eventually gets the desired outcome. If a vendor can’t fill out a form precisely, that’s not customs’ fault. When you start letting nonconforming things through, you risk being accused of fraud, and sloppy bookkeeping leads to the common disparaging phrase, “close enough for government work.”

We can’t have it both ways. If you want smaller government and lower taxes, then it won’t be fair to complain when some unlucky clerk in an underfunded and understaffed office can’t keep up with surge work during the holiday rush.

I sure hope the OP gets their bass soon. Hang in there!

 

[bassfuser]

I had an issue with a bass from Germany earlier this year. It was hung up for over 2 weeks and I had no idea why. I tried calling UPS but the people I talked to were impossible to understand. Finally I got through to a guy who referred me to a UPS broker that got the problem resolved.

I'm not sure what to tell you but maybe try to get your email to them so you can get in touch with an import broker.

 

[Nephilymbass]

They want to know where the wood was harvested?

There’s basically a CITES endangered species list for certain trees now. This is a big deal for some kinds of wood like rosewood, but not an issue for other like maple and alder. Although sometimes mistakes are even made in identifying the types of wood. This isn’t new by the way. It’s been a thing for years and why many guitar and bass manufacturers have moved away from using woods like rosewood for their mass produced stuff and are now using pau ferro for fretboards. For example you can still buy fenders with rosewood boards but their big sellers like the made in Mexico stuff has stopped using rosewood,

 

[bassfuser]

I'm not sure if it is appropriate for you to contact the broker without some kind of UPS referral but this is the email to the UPS guy that helped me. I hope this helps.

[email protected]

 

[fdeck]

We experience this more as buyers than as sellers unless we run a business. Customs and shipping hassles affect all countries.

 

[Beej]

So, your country has bureaucratic processes in place that have dragged this out, but The Bass Gallery is at fault? Just a gentle clarifying question as I try to comprehend the logic here.

 

[gln1955]

So, your country has bureaucratic processes in place that have dragged this out, but The Bass Gallery is at fault? Just a gentle clarifying question as I try to comprehend the logic here.

What's hard to understand? Seems pretty clear they started this mess from their incompetence in not submitting the right paperwork.

 

[bass12]

There’s basically a CITES endangered species list for certain trees now. This is a big deal for some kinds of wood like rosewood, but not an issue for other like maple and alder. Although sometimes mistakes are even made in identifying the types of wood. This isn’t new by the way. It’s been a thing for years and why many guitar and bass manufacturers have moved away from using woods like rosewood for their mass produced stuff and are now using pau ferro for fretboards. For example you can still buy fenders with rosewood boards but their big sellers like the made in Mexico stuff has stopped using rosewood,

I know that Brazilian rosewood specifically has been an issue, but I’d never heard anything about requiring information about where various woods were harvested. Sounds like a tall order - especially when we’re talking about guitars.

 

[AltecGreen]

I purchased a bass from The Bass Gallery in London on March 13th. They shipped the next day and by the 16th it was in Louisville, KY being held by customs. That same day, early in the morning, I was called by UPS and told that there was a missing document that was required to clear customs, the 'Plant and Plant Product Declaration Form'. It tells them what the product you're trying to import is made from, what types of woods, how much of each wood, where it was harvested...etc. It was still early on a Saturday, but knowing that The Bass Gallery is 5 hours ahead of me, I reached out via email letting them know they needed to fill out/submit the missing document. I received a response from them saying "Oh I'm sure everything will be fine. We'll reach out to UPS on Monday."

Monday comes and goes, still no progress, so I call UPS and they tell me the document they need is still missing. I reach out to The Bass Gallery early on Tuesday morning and they send me a copy of the form suggesting I submit it on my end and that they'll do the same on their side. I follow their directions. Still no progress, so I reach out to UPS again and they tell me that TBC didn't fill out the document correctly or that it was incomplete and that until it was filled out correctly my package would be held. I sent TBC another email and they respond that their guy at UPS is telling them everything is fine and that it's on me to work things out with customs. I reiterate that UPS has told me several times and I've been getting notifications that the document they need for my bass to clear customs is still missing. TBC submits the corrected document finally, sends me a copy to submit on my end and finally, that night I get a notification that the bass has cleared customs.

I thought my bass would be released and since it was only a few hours away it would arrive to me in a day or two. It's now been four days since being cleared by customs, and every night I get a notification of an 'Import Scan' in Louisville, KY but still no progress. I received an email this morning that it's still being held but they'll update me NEXT THURSDAY, March 28th if they hear anything. They have no idea when my bass will be released and even less idea of when I'll actually receive it.

I can't help but feel like if The Bass Gallery had included all of the required documents up front that I would likely have my bass by now. They took days to address the issue and when they did, they did it wrong, and took another couple days to fix it.

Am I simply being impatient or do you feel like you would also be upset? Have you experienced anything like this? How long did it take to get your instrument? It could be days or literally weeks according to UPS.

The Lacey Act form is generally best filled out by the buyer (aka the importer). It is the importer's responsibility.

The form seems scary at first but it is not a big deal. I have helped many people on thegearpage.net fill these out. I buy guitars from Japan all the time. I usually have the form ready in advance although it is hit or miss whether they ask for the form.

This is a customs issue and all carriers have to abide by the regulations. Sounds like customs has not yet received the Lacey act form and they will not release your package until the paperwork is in order. Every carrier will do the same if customs asks for the form.

The first time I bought a guitar from Japan, I was hit with the Lacey Act form, the TSCA form, and the Homeland Security form.

My advice it to fill out the form and then send it electronically to UPS. UPS should then submit it to customs and then they have to wait for customs to review and then release the package.

Here is an example of how the form is filled out. I can help you fill out the form but would need details on the bass and manufacturer (not the dealer).

 

[MingusBass]

So, your country has bureaucratic processes in place that have dragged this out, but The Bass Gallery is at fault? Just a gentle clarifying question as I try to comprehend the logic here.

Are you saying that The Bass Gallery waiting FOUR FREAKING DAYS to submit the appropriate document, filling it out incorrectly, and then waiting a couple more days to fix it wasn’t a huge factor? Yes, I’m blaming TBG.

 

[MingusBass]

The Lacey Act form is generally best filled out by the buyer (aka the importer). It is the importer's responsibility.

The form seems scary at first but it is not a big deal. I have helped many people on thegearpage.net fill these out. I buy guitars from Japan all the time. I usually have the form ready in advance although it is hit or miss whether they ask for the form.

This is a customs issue and all carriers have to abide by the regulations. Sounds like customs has not yet received the Lacey act form and they will not release your package until the paperwork is in order. Every carrier will do the same if customs asks for the form.

The first time I bought a guitar from Japan, I was hit with the Lacey Act form, the TSCA form, and the Homeland Security form.

My advice it to fill out the form and then send it electronically to UPS. UPS should then submit it to customs and then they have to wait for customs to review and then release the package.

Here is an example of how the form is filled out. I can help you fill out the form but would need details on the bass and manufacturer (not the dealer).

View attachment 5395052

It wasn’t my responsibility according to UPS and in fact they told me it was better that it came from the sender. Regardless, that is not the issue now.

 

[MingusBass]

At the very least TB requires pictures!

Sure!

 

[MingusBass]

It’s a medium scale Wilcock Mullarkey. Wilcock has no US dealer and there have been two or three medium scale made I believe. If it wasn’t so rare, I wouldn’t have bothered with it. It does have a rosewood fingerboard, not Brazilian but still.

 

[SoulReflection]

I purchased a bass from The Bass Gallery in London on March 13th. They shipped the next day and by the 16th it was in Louisville, KY being held by customs. That same day, early in the morning, I was called by UPS and told that there was a missing document that was required to clear customs, the 'Plant and Plant Product Declaration Form'. It tells them what the product you're trying to import is made from, what types of woods, how much of each wood, where it was harvested...etc. It was still early on a Saturday, but knowing that The Bass Gallery is 5 hours ahead of me, I reached out via email letting them know they needed to fill out/submit the missing document. I received a response from them saying "Oh I'm sure everything will be fine. We'll reach out to UPS on Monday."

Monday comes and goes, still no progress, so I call UPS and they tell me the document they need is still missing. I reach out to The Bass Gallery early on Tuesday morning and they send me a copy of the form suggesting I submit it on my end and that they'll do the same on their side. I follow their directions. Still no progress, so I reach out to UPS again and they tell me that TBC didn't fill out the document correctly or that it was incomplete and that until it was filled out correctly my package would be held. I sent TBC another email and they respond that their guy at UPS is telling them everything is fine and that it's on me to work things out with customs. I reiterate that UPS has told me several times and I've been getting notifications that the document they need for my bass to clear customs is still missing. TBC submits the corrected document finally, sends me a copy to submit on my end and finally, that night I get a notification that the bass has cleared customs.

I thought my bass would be released and since it was only a few hours away it would arrive to me in a day or two. It's now been four days since being cleared by customs, and every night I get a notification of an 'Import Scan' in Louisville, KY but still no progress. I received an email this morning that it's still being held but they'll update me NEXT THURSDAY, March 28th if they hear anything. They have no idea when my bass will be released and even less idea of when I'll actually receive it.

I can't help but feel like if The Bass Gallery had included all of the required documents up front that I would likely have my bass by now. They took days to address the issue and when they did, they did it wrong, and took another couple days to fix it.

Am I simply being impatient or do you feel like you would also be upset? Have you experienced anything like this? How long did it take to get your instrument? It could be days or literally weeks according to UPS.

There are enough "uncertain" factors involved with buying online. International with customs involved just adds more than I am willing to accept.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

I worked for a company for 27-years that annually sold hundreds of millions of dollars worth of product and shipped around the world. US was primary followed by UK and then probably Argentina. They even shipped to Africa. It's a complex business to do international shipping into and out of the US. So there is a department that specifically handles imports and exports and has import brokers set up to handle our exports in all the countries we shipped to. On top of that, sometimes it depends upon an official involved in the clearing of customs.

We had an arrangement with a fly-tying company in Kenya who tied almost all of the fishing flies we sold, which was a lot because we sold them by catalog, dealers, and our retail stores in the US and internationally. One of the requirements of importing into the US is that the item has to have country of origin on the product unless it is too small or has some other exemption. The customs guy who normally handled those fly shipments went on vacation when our order came into the US and suddenly none of our fly orders are making it through customs. The guy covering his position decided we had to have country of origin on each fly and we are notified we had to attach a tag with country of origin on each individual fly. So we had tags printed up and had employees attach them by hand to hundreds of thousands of fishing flies.

Fishing flies for trout are small. Anywhere from about 1/8 or 1/16th of an inch up to 2" long for a big one. To satisfy that requirement we had to print out a bunch of paper or plastic tags with "made in Kenya" on them and jab the hook through it around to the bend. In most cases this strip of paper or plastic was larger than the fly and the strips were less than 1/4" tall. So we waited for about 2-months for all the flies to have these tags attached by hand to them.

Meanwhile our catalog as well as all of our stores and dealers ran out of fishing flies. And we'd been selling flies since the 1850's. Then we finally got them in with their little tags and the stores put them in their bins. Because of those tags, it was hard to see 2 or 3-dozen flies in a compartment on the fly table. It looked like a table full of paper or plastic tags. We usually only get about 3 or 4 shipments a year because flies are all tied by hand and take a long time for large quantities. Our second order did come in about a month after the tagged flies finally arrived and we were back in the fly business within a week.

Sometimes the difference in things running smoothly as expected depends upon the judgement of one official and how they are feeling that day. That one official cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars because, despite the history of how customs handled fishing fly orders, he decided he wasn't going to release them until they were all individually marked with a tag.

There's all kinds of problems that can come up and if it's a small company, odds are they don't have an entire department set up to facilitate it. On the other hand, it could be somebody deciding that a particular bit of info not needed or irrelevant before, must be provided. I hope you get your bass soon.

 

[SoulReflection]

I worked for a company for 27-years that annually sold hundreds of millions of dollars worth of product and shipped around the world. US was primary followed by UK and then probably Argentina. They even shipped to Africa. It's a complex business to do international shipping into and out of the US. So there is a department that specifically handles imports and exports and has import brokers set up to handle our exports in all the countries we shipped to. On top of that, sometimes it depends upon an official involved in the clearing of customs.

We had an arrangement with a fly-tying company in Kenya who tied almost all of the fishing flies we sold, which was a lot because we sold them by catalog, dealers, and our retail stores in the US and internationally. One of the requirements of importing into the US is that the item has to have country of origin on the product unless it is too small or has some other exemption. The customs guy who normally handled those fly shipments went on vacation when our order came into the US and suddenly none of our fly orders are making it through customs. The guy covering his position decided we had to have country of origin on each fly and we are notified we had to attach a tag with country of origin on each individual fly. So we had tags printed up and had employees attach them by hand to hundreds of thousands of fishing flies.

Fishing flies for trout are small. Anywhere from about 1/8 or 1/16th of an inch up to 2" long for a big one. To satisfy that requirement we had to print out a bunch of paper or plastic tags with "made in Kenya" on them and jab the hook through it around to the bend. In most cases this strip of paper or plastic was larger than the fly and the strips were less than 1/4" tall. So we waited for about 2-months for all the flies to have these tags attached by hand to them.

Meanwhile our catalog as well as all of our stores and dealers ran out of fishing flies. And we'd been selling flies since the 1850's. Then we finally got them in with their little tags and the stores put them in their bins. Because of those tags, it was hard to see 2 or 3-dozen flies in a compartment on the fly table. It looked like a table full of paper or plastic tags. We usually only get about 3 or 4 shipments a year because flies are all tied by hand and take a long time for large quantities. Our second order did come in about a month after the tagged flies finally arrived and we were back in the fly business within a week.

Sometimes the difference in things running smoothly as expected depends upon the judgement of one official and how they are feeling that day. That one official cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars because, despite the history of how customs handled fishing fly orders, he decided he wasn't going to release them until they were all individually marked with a tag.

There's all kinds of problems that can come up and if it's a small company, odds are they don't have an entire department set up to facilitate it. On the other hand, it could be somebody deciding that a particular bit of info not needed or irrelevant before, must be provided. I hope you get your bass soon.

I had to like this post! As a fly fisherman for years, I started tying my own flies and avoided this crap. Otherwise, buy from local tiers who are in the know ...

 

[BassJuju]

It happens… yes they should have filed the paperwork more timely. When I had this issue with the other guys, they gave the # of the person handling the case. Took a few phone calls, but once I spoke to them, I had the bass the next day.

Best of luck. I’m betting it will be fine.

 

[BlueTalon]

I was called by UPS and told that there was a missing document that was required to clear customs, the 'Plant and Plant Product Declaration Form'. It tells them what the product you're trying to import is made from, what types of woods, how much of each wood, where it was harvested...etc.

They want to know where the wood was harvested?

There’s basically a CITES endangered species list for certain trees now. This is a big deal for some kinds of wood like rosewood, but not an issue for other like maple and alder. Although sometimes mistakes are even made in identifying the types of wood.

Sometimes the difference in things running smoothly as expected depends upon the judgement of one official and how they are feeling that day. That one official cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars because, despite the history of how customs handled fishing fly orders, he decided he wasn't going to release them until they were all individually marked with a tag.

THIS has always been my fear regarding the CITES bureaucracy.

 

[Kubicki Fan]

I worked for a company for 27-years that annually sold hundreds of millions of dollars worth of product and shipped around the world. US was primary followed by UK and then probably Argentina. They even shipped to Africa. It's a complex business to do international shipping into and out of the US. So there is a department that specifically handles imports and exports and has import brokers set up to handle our exports in all the countries we shipped to. On top of that, sometimes it depends upon an official involved in the clearing of customs.

We had an arrangement with a fly-tying company in Kenya who tied almost all of the fishing flies we sold, which was a lot because we sold them by catalog, dealers, and our retail stores in the US and internationally. One of the requirements of importing into the US is that the item has to have country of origin on the product unless it is too small or has some other exemption. The customs guy who normally handled those fly shipments went on vacation when our order came into the US and suddenly none of our fly orders are making it through customs. The guy covering his position decided we had to have country of origin on each fly and we are notified we had to attach a tag with country of origin on each individual fly. So we had tags printed up and had employees attach them by hand to hundreds of thousands of fishing flies.

Fishing flies for trout are small. Anywhere from about 1/8 or 1/16th of an inch up to 2" long for a big one. To satisfy that requirement we had to print out a bunch of paper or plastic tags with "made in Kenya" on them and jab the hook through it around to the bend. In most cases this strip of paper or plastic was larger than the fly and the strips were less than 1/4" tall. So we waited for about 2-months for all the flies to have these tags attached by hand to them.

Meanwhile our catalog as well as all of our stores and dealers ran out of fishing flies. And we'd been selling flies since the 1850's. Then we finally got them in with their little tags and the stores put them in their bins. Because of those tags, it was hard to see 2 or 3-dozen flies in a compartment on the fly table. It looked like a table full of paper or plastic tags. We usually only get about 3 or 4 shipments a year because flies are all tied by hand and take a long time for large quantities. Our second order did come in about a month after the tagged flies finally arrived and we were back in the fly business within a week.

Sometimes the difference in things running smoothly as expected depends upon the judgement of one official and how they are feeling that day. That one official cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars because, despite the history of how customs handled fishing fly orders, he decided he wasn't going to release them until they were all individually marked with a tag.

There's all kinds of problems that can come up and if it's a small company, odds are they don't have an entire department set up to facilitate it. On the other hand, it could be somebody deciding that a particular bit of info not needed or irrelevant before, must be provided. I hope you get your bass soon.

Poignant and sad story.
I hope OP gets a quick delivery. NICE bass that!

 

[Nephilymbass]

I know that Brazilian rosewood specifically has been an issue, but I’d never heard anything about requiring information about where various woods were harvested. Sounds like a tall order - especially when we’re talking about guitars.

It’s an odd situation for sure I mean Fender wasn’t endangering rosewood making fretboards with it. The real cause of CITES are industries that use a LOT more wood. Like the furniture industry or wood flooring industry. Those industries going to South America and Africa and other places and decimating the land for more exotic wood. Somehow the guitar industry just ended up getting caught up in it also. Personally if I worked in a business that policed that stuff I’d just look the other way when it came to basses and guitars.