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My big rig blown away by lil combo?!
- Thread starter MusicMan810
- Start date
A 15 watts can be very loud. For most club situations a guitarist doesn't need more that 20 watts. If the cone size is the same, there isn't much difference between a 15 watts and 50 or 100 watt guitar amp. Either way, your rig should hang with this amp... listen to the mix a 100 ft away and then decide.
The frequency range of a guitar is totaly different and has much less demand on an amp to reproduce. Speaker movement is much, much less at those frequencies. Try pluggin your bass into that amp and cranking it up. You will no longer hear the room filling volume you heard from your guitarist. It will be a sound of the most unpleasant kind and most likey wipe out his speaker.
+1 I've experienced 15 watts of Fuchs or Bogner. Equalled easily an SWR Bass 750 with 6x10s. Subsequently a 1500w Berg IP has killed these folks, outside. My tone was pristine and clear. My drummer actually was looking worried and I turned down for seismic health reasons.
Oh, and Sandy over at Country Weave says, "Hi".
Or, for a small fee, a fellow TBer could arrange for the offending amp to have an unfortunate "accident" such as is described above.
PM me.I kid! I kid.
--Bomb
And now, a different perspective. I play both guitar and bass. My priority is certainly bass, but playing both has helped me incredibly.
My guitar amp is good for about 7 Watts of class A tubey goodness. It sounds just right against an un-mic'd drummer. I get a really nice blues tone running a Strat into it and letting the natural distortion rip. I need ear plugs at this volume level. I share the earlier posters opinion that 20 Watts is a lot of power for a guitar amp. I'd need a hot plate to get my tone at 15 Watts.
FWIW, I find 300 - 400 Watts into a pair of 15's on bass hits the same "happy zone."
My guitar amp is good for about 7 Watts of class A tubey goodness. It sounds just right against an un-mic'd drummer. I get a really nice blues tone running a Strat into it and letting the natural distortion rip. I need ear plugs at this volume level. I share the earlier posters opinion that 20 Watts is a lot of power for a guitar amp. I'd need a hot plate to get my tone at 15 Watts.
FWIW, I find 300 - 400 Watts into a pair of 15's on bass hits the same "happy zone."
At the end of the day, all power amp Watts and speaker sensitivities have to convert to Sound Pressure Levels at various frequencies that are received at the ear canal.
For your different instruments operating how they do at their respective frequency spectra, this is how it all behaves. Higher frequencies need less power to reach the same SPL. If you have a powered 2 way monitor you'll find that the woofer amp is typically a higher wattage than the tweeter amp. Sometimes considerably more, e.g. a factor of 4 times is not uncommon. You'll see that the GK biamp system is similar, the tweeter section is 50W compared to the woofer section which can be 800W. It is not uncommon to see guitarists use 20 - 40W combos being much louder than a bassist using a 400W 4 X 10 on the same stage.
And to put all into perspective, a loud piercing acoustic trumpet requires no wattage; your typical electric bassist may need 400W in typically available commercial bass guitar amplification just to support let alone compete at appropriate SPLs.
For your different instruments operating how they do at their respective frequency spectra, this is how it all behaves. Higher frequencies need less power to reach the same SPL. If you have a powered 2 way monitor you'll find that the woofer amp is typically a higher wattage than the tweeter amp. Sometimes considerably more, e.g. a factor of 4 times is not uncommon. You'll see that the GK biamp system is similar, the tweeter section is 50W compared to the woofer section which can be 800W. It is not uncommon to see guitarists use 20 - 40W combos being much louder than a bassist using a 400W 4 X 10 on the same stage.
And to put all into perspective, a loud piercing acoustic trumpet requires no wattage; your typical electric bassist may need 400W in typically available commercial bass guitar amplification just to support let alone compete at appropriate SPLs.
Just a heads up here with something I've been dealing with my GK 2001 RBP --
Most bass preamps seem to put out a 0 dBu signal rather than the 4dBu that most line level inputs expect (e.g. power amps).
I was running my GK 2001 RBP's XLR out to the XLR in on my Yamaha p5000S, and /cranked/ (gain max on the GK, volume pegged on the p5000s from one side (750w) into my 4 ohm cab) I was short of volume. Could not hang with a guitar halfstack.
Now, with my old 1001 RB I could level this guitarist in volume.
Anyway, I started running an Art Studio V3 mic preamp in between the 2001 RBP and the power amp and now I have my old volume back and then some to spare.
From the looks of things this is not an issue with the Crest sadly so this might not help you. Looks like the Crest's input sensitivity is 1.0V (as opposed to my Yammy which runs 1.6V or some odd).
Sounds to me like you might be having a case of the 'old ass inefficient cab'itis. I bury halfstacks with just my 3x12 rig now.
Most bass preamps seem to put out a 0 dBu signal rather than the 4dBu that most line level inputs expect (e.g. power amps).
I was running my GK 2001 RBP's XLR out to the XLR in on my Yamaha p5000S, and /cranked/ (gain max on the GK, volume pegged on the p5000s from one side (750w) into my 4 ohm cab) I was short of volume. Could not hang with a guitar halfstack.
Now, with my old 1001 RB I could level this guitarist in volume.
Anyway, I started running an Art Studio V3 mic preamp in between the 2001 RBP and the power amp and now I have my old volume back and then some to spare.
From the looks of things this is not an issue with the Crest sadly so this might not help you. Looks like the Crest's input sensitivity is 1.0V (as opposed to my Yammy which runs 1.6V or some odd).
Sounds to me like you might be having a case of the 'old ass inefficient cab'itis. I bury halfstacks with just my 3x12 rig now.
I've always been underwhelmed by Ampeg SVT volume capability. It looks like it should be delivering a lot more.
Davo
Davo
it can also simply be a matter of eq... if you don't have any mids in your tone then you will be losing a fair deal of your watts/power trying to push the volume of a tone that is naturally quieter to the human ear
Also, if you dirty your sound somewhat, it'll "obscure" you from the mix. Distorsion + scooped mids = no bass. Bass usually sounds the clearest to the ear when it is, well, clear.
But stage volume is actually a poor indicator of audience volume. I once played a show where I thought I was burying everyone (due to my amp being at ear level) but a friend in the audience said that he couldn't hear me. Another gig, I coudln't hear myself for crap due to being right next to a very active drummer on the cymbals and my amp being on the other side of the stage.
I think that everyone though that I played three sets of bass solos that night since a lot of people said that I was very loud (but they all enjoyed it, so go figure...).
But stage volume is actually a poor indicator of audience volume. I once played a show where I thought I was burying everyone (due to my amp being at ear level) but a friend in the audience said that he couldn't hear me. Another gig, I coudln't hear myself for crap due to being right next to a very active drummer on the cymbals and my amp being on the other side of the stage.
I think that everyone though that I played three sets of bass solos that night since a lot of people said that I was very loud (but they all enjoyed it, so go figure...).
I had a 'little marshall combo' that was 1x12 and 100 watts. It was loud to say the least and if you were in line of fire it would take your head off. Are you sure it was 15 or 20 watts?
A watt is not a watt is not a watt. I imagine it's class A 15w, which is definitely head-shredding territory.
I'd definitely work on EQ'ing it out first, learn to love the mids.
I'd definitely work on EQ'ing it out first, learn to love the mids.
Having a Crest Vs900 and 1100, I know that the inputs on those amps are rated for +4db input. I just called Tech 21 and asked about the output of the RBI. The tech I spoke with said that the 1/4" output is rated -10db, intended to run into an amp head, etc. The XLR output has a switch to change it from mic level (he did not specify to db level for that setting) or line level, nominally at 0db. He claimed that the line level could be boosted up to +4db by cranking everything.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.
