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My boss doesn't understand neck relief.

#24
curbowkid said:
I prefer perfectly level frets, straight neck. I think it gived the best playability and tone. But setup is subjective. I've seen people who prefer their strings a half inch off the fretboard. The setup is meant to maximize the players preformance as well as the basses. Someone who plays hard, needs a slightly higher action, someone who plays light requires a lower action.

If people keep going to him for his set ups, let him do them his way, its obviously working. Don't go behind his back and change his work. You still have a bit to learn.
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Here is the kicker, people come to ME for MY setups. They will come back with their instrument that he adjusted complaining about it. When I do the work, all I ever hear is how great it plays. I am good at this, and I do know more about it than he does. I will admit that I do not know everything, but I know enough to please my customers.

The only folks that are happy with his work are beginners that don't know any better because they don't really play yet. NONE of our top local musicians will trust him with their stuff.
 
#25
curbowkid said:
I prefer perfectly level frets, straight neck. I think it gived the best playability and tone. But setup is subjective...
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how low can you get the strings over FB before you get any buzz on a particular instrument is a rather objective thing. measurable even. you'll consistently find that with a proper relief you can set the strings lower that with a dead straight neck.
 
#26
If your boss has failing eyes and his brain is mush then when he tells you to do it a certain way just nod and say yes then do it as per your best professional judgment and he will never know the difference.

The difference between a flat neck and slight relief is so small that many cannot tell the difference anyway.

I find some basses play well with flat neck and some don't because no 2 pieces of wood are identical and no 2 fret jobs are identical. Also no 2 neck pockets are perfectly identical .. etc ...
 
#28
curbowkid said:
Well that changes the game! Id show him what is happening with his customers. Maybe that will knock some sense into him
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Been there, done that. He is dense, and takes it really personally, but rather than change he just makes excuses.

A lot of people ask me when I'm going to open my own shop, because there are sooooo many other things wrong with how he operates.... too many to get into right now.
 
#30
Lucky Strike said:
Maybe you can get some of your happy customers to write in emails expressing their satisfaction with your work. Being specific to show how they have liked your unique way of setting up the neck and such.
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Well...

He doesn't do email, we don't have a computer in the shop, the message machine has been full for years and he won't clear it out or respond to calls. There are so many things about how he operates that should mean instant death in todays economy, but he makes it work by teaching english at the local community college and paying the shops bills with it. Honestly I feel like this place is a sinking ship, but I have stuck around because I truly feel that I have found my calling in life.
 
#31
TheMightyWoot1 said:
...open my own shop...
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There's your answer right there.

There is usually more than one way to do things. And even if modern techniques are demonstrably and measurably better than old methods, the human nature is cranky and not always logical. Wish the old guy the best, and set up your own biz.
 
#32
ctmullins said:
There's your answer right there.

There is usually more than one way to do things. And even if modern techniques are demonstrably and measurably better than old methods, the human nature is cranky and not always logical. Wish the old guy the best, and set up your own biz.
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I really want to, but like you said human nature is cranky. If I set up a shop here in town he will become a flaming ball of madness. I don't want to move.... I love this town. I think I will go work for someone else until he goes under, which shouldn't take long at this rate.
 
#35
This is such a simple issue to deal with. Ask the customer if they have a preference - problem solved.

If you are changing work which he is billing as work he has done, you need to stop right now. Doesn't matter if his work sucks, it is his name and reputation you are messing with. If he did it, hands off unless the customer asks you do alter it.
 
#36
TheMightyWoot1 said:
I really want to, but like you said human nature is cranky. If I set up a shop here in town he will become a flaming ball of madness. I don't want to move.... I love this town. I think I will go work for someone else until he goes under, which shouldn't take long at this rate.
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You've already said his setups are sub-par, and customers don't like him. If you leave and set up shop, your customers (and his lack of customers) will prove the "right and wrong" of it. I know you said he was your mentor, but a mentor does not have the right to sit on their apprentice forever. If fact the very purpose of apprenticeship is to eventually be good enough to perform your particular craft on your own. If he can't realize that, and chooses to be angry, that's his problem not yours. IMO, unless there's some other outstanding factors (i.e. finances) your ability to stand on your own, coupled with his lack of concern for shop safety, should equal a no-brainer: move on.
 
#37
carl h. said:
This is such a simple issue to deal with. Ask the customer if they have a preference - problem solved.

If you are changing work which he is billing as work he has done, you need to stop right now. Doesn't matter if his work sucks, it is his name and reputation you are messing with. If he did it, hands off unless the customer asks you do alter it.
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There you go. Do what the customer wants. If the customers like your setup then great, do it. If the customers likes his setup, then do that. If a customer complains about his setup and comes back for it to be fixed, give the customer's instrument to your boss so he can listen to the customer himself and he can fix it to the way the customer likes it himself.

Your real boss is the paying customer.
 
#38
I'd quit... sounds like a lot of hate in your post.

If you're so excellent you can start a shop

-----

OPINION...
Cheap instruments and bad strings work well for relief.

None of my $$$$$$ instruments came with relief. ... does take a better knowledge of gemoetry to use an arrow straight neck.

Both of you are right... he owns the shop
 
#39
I started setting my instruments up with dead straight relief, and adjusting high in the saddles. It worked okay.. but after I realized I prefer a little relief. The neck seemed far easier to play everywhere, not just up to the 7th fret areas.

Who knows. I think that shu ha ri comment sorta describes what is the best situation. No point in firing yourself. Keep doing what you're dong. If the kids come back for your setup.. you know you're doing something right. But I must say, I do prefer straight, if I play only in hte open to 7th fret area. Otherwise... nope!
 
#40
longfinger said:
There you go. Do what the customer wants. If the customers like your setup then great, do it. If the customers likes his setup, then do that. If a customer complains about his setup and comes back for it to be fixed, give the customer's instrument to your boss so he can listen to the customer himself and he can fix it to the way the customer likes it himself.

Your real boss is the paying customer.
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Before I do any work on someones instrument, I ask them to demonstrate for me their playing style and what exactly they are having troubles with. The customer and their satisfaction is my highest priority.

The times that I go behind him and change his work is when something is obviously wrong. He will cut nut slots way too wide, and the strings will buzz around in the slots, so I fix it. He sets up instruments to be super low on the nut side, but excessively high nearer to the bridge. Its all wonky, and I have explained to him ad nauseum why it doesn't work right. So I take it upon myself to correct it. No one asks for his setup specifically, and when they ask for mine specifically, he tells them that that is not how we operate, that he won't promise that I will be the one to do the work. This ends up causing customers to just leave with their stuff.
 

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