• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

My boss doesn't understand neck relief.

TheMightyWoot1

TheMightyWoot1

Jan 31, 2012
319
19
Corvallis, OR
www.symbioticquintet.com
#1
I have been working at a local guitar shop for the last five years now, and I love my work. At first, I was an apprentice, but it didn't take long before I realized that I actually know more than my mentor, especially about electric instruments.

I have been trying to get him to understand why neck relief is absolutely critical to the setup of a stringed instrument, showing him diagrams, explaining the science, etc., but he just doesn't get it. He thinks that the neck needs to be dead straight, then he raises saddles to get rid of buzz. Everytime I tell him why that is wrong, he just says that he disagrees and that people always differ on this. But the reality is that no professional tech that I know of would EVER adjust a fretted neck to be dead straight. I'm frustrated to say the least, and I am even more upset to think of how many instruments he has done this to over the years.

I am at a loss as to what to do. He won't listen or learn, and is convinced that his setups are top notch, which they are not. Usually I go behind him and correct his mistakes without him knowing.

What should I do? He is 68 years old and can barely remember what day of the week it is, and his eyes are failing pretty bad. To top all of that off, in the 40 years that he has been working on instruments, he has never once worn a respirator when using solvents or finishing products, and when he is done with said solvents, he tosses the paper towel in to a OPEN UNSEALED CARDBOARD BOX, poisoning the air. It took me a while to get him to throw solvent soaked paper towels outside in the dumpster. So his brain is mush. :atoz:


Ugh.

What do you guys think I should do? Quit and try to find a different shop? Call OSHA? Show up to work in a bubble suit?

Thanks for reading.
 
#2
Lol, I wish I knew more about setting up instruments. I would love to be able to do professional setups on my own instruments. Sounds like he isn't willing to change his ways or adopt new ideas. If you really can't stand it, then find somewhere else to work. You should try explaining to him that you're thinking about leaving and tell him the reasons why. With that said, I vote for the bubble suit.
 
#6
I very wise Japanese luthier told me this: Shu ha Ri the philosophy of mastery

... taken from wiki.

Shuhari roughly translates to "first learn, then detach, and finally transcend."

shu (守?) "protect", "obey" — traditional wisdom — learning fundamentals, techniques, heuristics, proverbs
ha (破?) "detach", "digress" — breaking with tradition — detachment from the illusions of self
ri (離?) "leave", "separate" — transcendence — there are no techniques or proverbs, all moves are natural, becoming one with spirit alone without clinging to forms; transcending the physical

Don't piss off the hand that feeds you. If you had any idea of how things used to be in wood shops complaining about a rag is kinda wimpy. Sure, get a oil/solvent rag box - usually metal to contain potential fires from evaporative combustion. or buy a fan.

You should know more history about guitar building. Dead straight necks are very difficult to make play right but it also gives a lot of feedback to how well the FB leveling is, how well the frets were installed, final fret leveling and crowning. If all those factors are truly perfect then one can achieve a dead straight neck given temperature and humidity remain consistent. Now in reality those factors are almost never perfect especially on older instruments, even more with neck that have had work.
 
#9
There are a few things you can do!!!<br />
<br />
1.- Make Dr. Sheldon Cooper explain the damn thing to the old fart<br />
2.- Make another old fart explain the damn thing<br />
3.- Make an American Standard Precision Bass accidentally fall over the old fart's forehead<br />
4.- With an American Standard Precision Bass hit the old fart's neck, and make it looks like an accident<br />
<br />
Bazinga
Click to expand...

Whoa... I am not going to injure the guy over this...
 
#10
I should also add that his setup technique is not wrong, its quite old school, and has its merits. increasing the break angle at the bridge adds focus to the attack and to many is liked a lot. it also allows for a larger dynamic range on the right hand with the break angle of the fretted note to higher bridge. It is a setup meant to not play high up the neck, giving maximum tone and playability to the money zone of the neck with the ability to play hard with the right hand.

Now in the new school way of thinking, we think that we need to have more consistent setup across the neck. lower action at the bridge and nut, straight as possible neck, perfect frets, etc.

Have you heard of compensated string tension fb leveling/ fret leveling?
 
#12
Phone lost my response to you Hapa, so let me try this again...

The solvent soaked rag thing is important, because we have safety laws in place that should prevent this from happening. Also, I like my brain cells and he has no right to kill my brain with his irresponsible behavior.

I will get a neck straight when doing fret leveling and crowning, but once strings are on, I give it the relief that it needs to play consistently.

I think that bringing up old techniques is irrelevant, because instruments have evolved, and music as well. Modern musicians want consistency in how their gear plays. The old style works for those "G,C,D" types who play too hard and never move up the neck. But when you want your instrument to play like the wind, the neck needs relief. I'm talking about modern setups, not adjusting a 1910 parlour guitar.
 
#13
I set my necks dead straight except for my motown tapewound p,its a good way to do it for metal. even geddy lee says he has his techs set his necks as straight as humanly possible. it facilitates lowest possible action and a lot of people really like it that way. on the other hand the solvents w/o respirator and improper disposal worries me.
 
#17
the wako kid said:
I set my necks dead straight except for my motown tapewound p,its a good way to do it for metal. even geddy lee says he has his techs set his necks as straight as humanly possible. it facilitates lowest possible action and a lot of people really like it that way. on the other hand the solvents w/o respirator and improper disposal worries me.
Click to expand...

I disagree. A dead straight neck will get low action, but it will buzz all over the place. I'm talking about very slight relief, not making the neck look like a crescent or anything. IME, IMO anyway
 
#20
I prefer perfectly level frets, straight neck. I think it gived the best playability and tone. But setup is subjective. I've seen people who prefer their strings a half inch off the fretboard. The setup is meant to maximize the players preformance as well as the basses. Someone who plays hard, needs a slightly higher action, someone who plays light requires a lower action.

If people keep going to him for his set ups, let him do them his way, its obviously working. Don't go behind his back and change his work. You still have a bit to learn.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back