My Dirt Bender - Another Jounal

[el murdoque]

Boosting low-end comes from the depths knob, which has a corner frequency of 700hz, and boosts everything below, but only on the dirty side.

Another thing,
Yes, it's a dirt.
But, it does excel at low gain, and after I showed my buddy how I run it, discovered it can be an always on clean enhancer.

Are you sure about the depth knob? I had the feeling that it decides how much low end is fed into the clippers, but not really something that actually boosts in the way that you get more low end out of the device, only how hard it works on the lower frequencies. I could be mistaken, though.

 

[gillento]

....I had the feeling that it decides how much low end is fed into the clippers, but not really something that actually boosts in the way that you get more low end out of the device, only how hard it works on the lower frequencies. .....

You've been writing about this several times. This is something I find really interesting. It clicked for me the first time I read about the CMC Audio Proto. How do you "know" if it's a low end boost or low end fed into (or cut from) the drive circuit? Is there a specific way of testing this?

 

[Ritter667]

You've been writing about this several times. This is something I find really interesting. It clicked for me the first time I read about the CMC Audio Proto. How do you "know" if it's a low end boost or low end fed into (or cut from) the drive circuit? Is there a specific way of testing this?

Yes, one way you simply get more low end output, the other way the low end clips and the character of the actual clipping/drive changes.

 

[sunbeast]

You've been writing about this several times. This is something I find really interesting. It clicked for me the first time I read about the CMC Audio Proto. How do you "know" if it's a low end boost or low end fed into (or cut from) the drive circuit? Is there a specific way of testing this?

If boosting it also increases the amount of gain/fuzziness then you know it comes before a clipping section. In most cases I see it used, a “depth” control is some sort of pre-clipping bass control (or specifically a high-pass filter even more often)

 

[dedpool1052]

Are you sure about the depth knob? I had the feeling that it decides how much low end is fed into the clippers, but not really something that actually boosts in the way that you get more low end out of the device, only how hard it works on the lower frequencies. I could be mistaken, though.

Yup, positive.
However your ears aren't lying to you, as I believe the depth is pre-gain in the circuit, so it's going to affect the feel and compression of the gain.

 

[dedpool1052]

I know I've mentioned before, back when you initially had the MBD2.
I approach the MBD circuit, first by starting everything full CCW, then bringing up the clean until it's about unity gain, then use the dirt side for my highs.
That way I have a thick, clean low-end and mid-range, then a crunchy top-end.

 

[el murdoque]

You've been writing about this several times. This is something I find really interesting. It clicked for me the first time I read about the CMC Audio Proto. How do you "know" if it's a low end boost or low end fed into (or cut from) the drive circuit? Is there a specific way of testing this?

I use my ears and a good pair of headphones.
With the pedal at unity (which is not as easily set as one assumes), will raising the knob that does the bass thing result in more low end leaving the pedal than entering it? In case of the MDB, I can confirm it now, that I gave it another go. Running depth past noon raises the low end, but as mentioned already, it happens pre gain, so it results in more low end breakup - but ultimately, also in more low end.
The tilt EQ is not as powerful as on some other pedals. You get tinny when you dime it, and you get muddy when you dial back all the way, but it's quite robust and not at all finicky. Like, if it gets bumped an increment or two, there's no sudden and vast change.

I want to say it again: This is not an intuitive pedal. When you have a specific setting and want to alter the tone, there often is more than one way to do that and you gotta figure out which way floats your boat best.

 

[sunbeast]

Yup, positive.
However your ears aren't lying to you, as I believe the depth is pre-gain in the circuit, so it's going to affect the feel and compression of the gain.

I’m pretty sure the “Depth” on the MBD is a high-pass filter into the clipping section with a knee at 700hZ, based on this post from @father of fires :
Post in thread 'New Damnation Audio MBD-1... The Bass Distortion Ive been waiting for!!'
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/ne...been-waiting-for.1247402/page-5#post-19298341

So from my understanding it doesn’t actually boost bass, when you set it at full depth it is just sending your full input signal (not high-passed) into the clipping section. Almost all dirt pedals have some amount of high-pass filtering into the clipping section that stops the clipping from getting too fuzzy or compressed, the Depth control here just allows you to set how strong that filtering is. Often in bass drives the high-passing is countered by some midrange contouring and/or a clean blend to then fill out the sound of the final product again.

 

[dedpool1052]

I’m pretty sure the “Depth” on the MBD is a high-pass filter into the clipping section with a knee at 700hZ, based on this post from @father of fires :
Post in thread 'New Damnation Audio MBD-1... The Bass Distortion Ive been waiting for!!'
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/ne...been-waiting-for.1247402/page-5#post-19298341

So from my understanding it doesn’t actually boost bass, when you set it at full depth it is just sending your full input signal (not high-passed) into the clipping section. Almost all dirt pedals have some amount of high-pass filtering into the clipping section that stops the clipping from getting too fuzzy or compressed, the Depth control here just allows you to set how strong that filtering is. Often in bass drives the high-passing is countered by some midrange contouring and/or a clean blend to then fill out the sound of the final product again.

So, in essence, it's not actually boosting lows, just lessening the amount that are being filtered off at the input.

 

[sunbeast]

So, in essence, it's not actually boosting lows, just lessening the amount that are being filtered off at the input.

Yes. The "Grunt" switch on Darkglass pedals is the same concept (except using a switch with 3 fixed values in place of a potentiometer), but "Depth" is a more common way to label it on other pedals and amps it seems like.

 

[dedpool1052]

Yes. The "Grunt" switch on Darkglass pedals is the same concept (except using a switch with 3 fixed values in place of a potentiometer), but "Depth" is a more common way to label it on other pedals and amps it seems like.

Dude, thanks for the education lesson.
The more I know about certain features allows me to approach a given pedal more fully informed.

 

[el murdoque]

This is, indeed a tricky one. I do think that the MBD-1 depth knob either boosts the low end when you go past noon on it, or it tricks you into believing you do.
Since it does not have a flat setting, it's really hard to confirm how it works exactly.
The EQ and shape of the sound might let you set level higher than actual unity if you do it by ear. When you do that, and bring up the depth knob, you feel like you're boosting bass, but it might actually be that you're only raising it from minus X to zero, but zero is actually plus 6 because you turned the level knob higher than actual unity.

 

[el murdoque]

There are not many family friendly places where you can say "I busted my nut on the g-string" and everyone will understand it as the innocent, family friendly thing it is.

But yeah, I did. I busted my nut on the g-string. The last bit of it popped off and fell to the ground.
Makes me re-think my three bass policy. I might want to consider buying a fourth, so I have backup when these things happen.

 

[Ritter667]

There are not many family friendly places where you can say "I busted my nut on the g-string" and everyone will understand it as the innocent, family friendly thing it is.

But yeah, I did. I busted my nut on the g-string. The last bit of it popped off and fell to the ground.
Makes me re-think my three bass policy. I might want to consider buying a fourth, so I have backup when these things happen.

As long as it was not a stainless steel G-string.

 

[sloppy_phil]

There are not many family friendly places where you can say "I busted my nut on the g-string" and everyone will understand it as the innocent, family friendly thing it is.

But yeah, I did. I busted my nut on the g-string. The last bit of it popped off and fell to the ground.
Makes me re-think my three bass policy. I might want to consider buying a fourth, so I have backup when these things happen.

As long as no teeth, or eyes, were harmed in the occurring of this incident, I think we can all just have a nice laugh about it

 

[dedpool1052]

This is, indeed a tricky one. I do think that the MBD-1 depth knob either boosts the low end when you go past noon on it, or it tricks you into believing you do.
Since it does not have a flat setting, it's really hard to confirm how it works exactly.
The EQ and shape of the sound might let you set level higher than actual unity if you do it by ear. When you do that, and bring up the depth knob, you feel like you're boosting bass, but it might actually be that you're only raising it from minus X to zero, but zero is actually plus 6 because you turned the level knob higher than actual unity.

If the shift switch is in the up position, the depth can be very subtle below noon.
If the shift switch is in the down position, the effect of the depth becomes more apparent.

 

[sunbeast]

This is, indeed a tricky one. I do think that the MBD-1 depth knob either boosts the low end when you go past noon on it, or it tricks you into believing you do.
Since it does not have a flat setting, it's really hard to confirm how it works exactly.
The EQ and shape of the sound might let you set level higher than actual unity if you do it by ear. When you do that, and bring up the depth knob, you feel like you're boosting bass, but it might actually be that you're only raising it from minus X to zero, but zero is actually plus 6 because you turned the level knob higher than actual unity.

Well its all relative really: there is the way the specific control works in the circuit (likely a pre-drive high-pass filter) and then the way all the different filtering in the circuit adds up to shape the sound that can interact in unexpected ways- for example, I suspect as with most bass drives that there is some built-in contouring of the midrange which is more or less vital to make something capable of heavy distortion without sounding buzzy, harsh, or thin, and a wide mid scoop paired with a more minor bass cut could come out the other side favoring the bass in a way that it sounds like a bass boost is possible. This is really the same concept as the Fender-type EQ, which inherently is capable only of losses (no boosts), but because it also inherently creates a mid scoop at nearly all settings while allowing more bass and treble through it sounds capable of boosting treble and bass significantly- all relative! Drive pedals with actual active EQ (capable of boost) are relatively rare unless that EQ is post-drive (like all the Darkglass deluxe pedals for example)

I always find it funny when people describe most any drive pedal as "transparent" (not that the MBD gets this particular reputation per se), because in most cases there is a ton of EQ sculpting in any good sounding drive circuit to make it sound the way it does. Usually I suspect "transparent" just means that the drive sound sounds subjectively good to whoever uses that word, even if the circuit objectively isn't particularly transparent.

 

[el murdoque]

Well its all relative really: there is the way the specific control works in the circuit (likely a pre-drive high-pass filter) and then the way all the different filtering in the circuit adds up to shape the sound that can interact in unexpected ways- for example, I suspect as with most bass drives that there is some built-in contouring of the midrange which is more or less vital to make something capable of heavy distortion without sounding buzzy, harsh, or thin, and a wide mid scoop paired with a more minor bass cut could come out the other side favoring the bass in a way that it sounds like a bass boost is possible. This is really the same concept as the Fender-type EQ, which inherently is capable only of losses (no boosts), but because it also inherently creates a mid scoop at nearly all settings while allowing more bass and treble through it sounds capable of boosting treble and bass significantly- all relative! Drive pedals with actual active EQ (capable of boost) are relatively rare unless that EQ is post-drive (like all the Darkglass deluxe pedals for example)

Yes. But as it is with the Fender tone stack, at the end of the day, all that counts is what exits the pedal and how we perceive it.
Does it really matter if the MBD-1 has an active bass boost or if it's a passive high pass that sounds like a bass boost - as long as the master volume has enough dB to raise the output signal above unity. . .

I always find it funny when people describe most any drive pedal as "transparent" (not that the MBD gets this particular reputation per se), because in most cases there is a ton of EQ sculpting in any good sounding drive circuit to make it sound the way it does. Usually I suspect "transparent" just means that the drive sound sounds subjectively good to whoever uses that word, even if the circuit objectively isn't particularly transparent.

Well. Look at headphones and the Harman curve. A flat sounding pair is anything but flat.

Most boost circuits that get praised for their transparent nature are anything but.

It's about what our ears tell us, and what feels 'right'. Once again, if a pedal gets you the impression of "bringing out the nature and timbre of your instrument" in a transparent way, even though it is heavily colored to achieve that - it's all good in my book.

 

[el murdoque]

As long as it was not a stainless steel G-string.

What if it was?

Because it was.

 

[el murdoque]

On one hand, I'm a bit disappointed that the Italian pedals have not arrived yet. Both have been posted on April, 30th.
On the other hand, I imagine it's a tough ride crossing the Alps in one of these.