I have no particular knowledge on this issue, but to my ears, the depth control does not sound as a high pass filter. It sounds as a shelving filter...
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My Dirt Bender - Another Jounal
- Thread starter el murdoque
- Start date
Back in the post No. 129 of this thread, one of the designers from Damnation Audio mentioned a high pass filter. My understanding of that sentence is that he referred to Tone control, not to Depth control, when mentioning high pass filter...
Check the post I linked to a couple posts back from an MBD thread. The Tone control is a tilt control that is indeed a post-gain blend between a low-pass and high-pass filter, but I’m pretty sure the Depth is also a pre-gain high-pass filter. I can say from experience that using active bass boost into a drive usually doesn’t work that well. @father of fires @whoismarykelly do I have this correct?Back in the post No. 129 of this thread, one of the designers from Damnation Audio mentioned a high pass filter. My understanding of that sentence is that he referred to Tone control, not to Depth control, when mentioning high pass filter...
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AND the mean green overdrive machine!
Fair question. I wonder the same thing, but I have a short XLR to TRS cable for that.
I will have to try the FOH option, certainly.
I'm gonna start with the Blackbird.
The very first thing I noticed was that the clean channel does not have a gain knob.
I've read the manual multiple times in the past. I've looked at pictures of the thing. Yet, I never noticed that the clean channel has no gain knob. I would have sworn it has two identical rows of knobs this morning. Now I know better.
Well, that is unfortunate for me, because I thought I'd try it in the place of the Meatsmoke, with one channel slightly dirty and the other melting your face off.
Okay, I gave it a twirl then, to see what it can do.
Here's my first thought on it: This is what the Origin Bassrig '64 should have been, or wanted to be. You get one channel, tube driven, with a Fender Blackface EQ and it runs clear as crystal, then you get a slightly different version of that channel, with gain.
I said the Bassrig '64 does white collar dirt, and I think the Blackbird does the same.
This is not Lemmy Kilmister drunk and in a mood, but much rather James Jamerson.
I did try to find the one thing that makes the Measmoke sound like Harley exhaust fumes and leather pants while the Blackbird sounds like a pristine white shirt with the tie loosened and the top button undone, but I can't.
Both units use very similar means of getting their sounds. More or less the same simple tone stack, two tubes to get the drive done - but the texture of the Blackbird stays sorta coherent while the Meatsmoke tears it up.
But let's not talk about the Meatsmoke.
The clean channel is a tube driven Fender tone stack. I've had the blue AMT pedal, several Sushi Box Particle Accelerators and Underground Accelerators, that EBS tube thing, the Spaceman Redstone and other pedals that do the same thing.
However, the Blackbird does it Effectrode style. It's noiseless. It's really dead quiet. The sound is rich of the right things and lacks all the wrong stuff.
Tube magic, the third dimension, that airy sparkle up top that never gets shrill, the warm and round bottom that is tight and articulated even though it's fat, too. The absolute inability to influence the midspectrum aside from scooping out frequencies I desperately need. As with all these devices, I set the mids knob to fully CW and will never touch it again, except for checking if it's still fully CW and did not get bumped down by accident.
The other circuit, the one with the gain knob actually has two drive engines, where you can select between classic and creamy. One setting has less gain and feels like there are less harmonics coming from the drive. It's amp like dirt, pushing back hard when you push it. Very dynamic, both in range and in feeling.
The other setting is much more forward. It does not really push you on, but it's not pushing back either. Like a Tube Screamer, it hangs there, reacting to what you do without imparting a momentum in either direction. Luckily, it does not sound like a Tube Screamer. It sounds like a screaming tube. Because it is. The manual states that the less gainy setting produces asymmetrical clipping, while the gainier setting clips symmetrical.
When you go through the gain knob's travel, you can hear how the cascading happens and one by one, the gain stages in the tubes start saturating. This all happens in a very cultivated manner, until it gets a bit chaotic towards the end - it works in both creamy and classic mode.
Right now I think that this is a fantastic pedal when you're looking for a clean preamp that can add a little grit when you want it.
The very first thing I noticed was that the clean channel does not have a gain knob.
I've read the manual multiple times in the past. I've looked at pictures of the thing. Yet, I never noticed that the clean channel has no gain knob. I would have sworn it has two identical rows of knobs this morning. Now I know better.
Well, that is unfortunate for me, because I thought I'd try it in the place of the Meatsmoke, with one channel slightly dirty and the other melting your face off.
Okay, I gave it a twirl then, to see what it can do.
Here's my first thought on it: This is what the Origin Bassrig '64 should have been, or wanted to be. You get one channel, tube driven, with a Fender Blackface EQ and it runs clear as crystal, then you get a slightly different version of that channel, with gain.
I said the Bassrig '64 does white collar dirt, and I think the Blackbird does the same.
This is not Lemmy Kilmister drunk and in a mood, but much rather James Jamerson.
I did try to find the one thing that makes the Measmoke sound like Harley exhaust fumes and leather pants while the Blackbird sounds like a pristine white shirt with the tie loosened and the top button undone, but I can't.
Both units use very similar means of getting their sounds. More or less the same simple tone stack, two tubes to get the drive done - but the texture of the Blackbird stays sorta coherent while the Meatsmoke tears it up.
But let's not talk about the Meatsmoke.
The clean channel is a tube driven Fender tone stack. I've had the blue AMT pedal, several Sushi Box Particle Accelerators and Underground Accelerators, that EBS tube thing, the Spaceman Redstone and other pedals that do the same thing.
However, the Blackbird does it Effectrode style. It's noiseless. It's really dead quiet. The sound is rich of the right things and lacks all the wrong stuff.
Tube magic, the third dimension, that airy sparkle up top that never gets shrill, the warm and round bottom that is tight and articulated even though it's fat, too. The absolute inability to influence the midspectrum aside from scooping out frequencies I desperately need. As with all these devices, I set the mids knob to fully CW and will never touch it again, except for checking if it's still fully CW and did not get bumped down by accident.
The other circuit, the one with the gain knob actually has two drive engines, where you can select between classic and creamy. One setting has less gain and feels like there are less harmonics coming from the drive. It's amp like dirt, pushing back hard when you push it. Very dynamic, both in range and in feeling.
The other setting is much more forward. It does not really push you on, but it's not pushing back either. Like a Tube Screamer, it hangs there, reacting to what you do without imparting a momentum in either direction. Luckily, it does not sound like a Tube Screamer. It sounds like a screaming tube. Because it is. The manual states that the less gainy setting produces asymmetrical clipping, while the gainier setting clips symmetrical.
When you go through the gain knob's travel, you can hear how the cascading happens and one by one, the gain stages in the tubes start saturating. This all happens in a very cultivated manner, until it gets a bit chaotic towards the end - it works in both creamy and classic mode.
Right now I think that this is a fantastic pedal when you're looking for a clean preamp that can add a little grit when you want it.
I've always had a soft spot for tube devices with a Fender tone stack.
...but these cannot stand on their own two feet and you need to help them along a little with the mids.
As weird as it may be, the closest thing to the Effectrode Blackbird I have in my home is the Noble.
I do think a perfect pedal to pair the Blackbird with is the Noble's best friend: The Broughton RFE. Not only does it let you go bonkers on the bass and treble because you can limit the effect with the HPF and LPF, no - the filters are actually resonant. And you get a mids knob with selectable frequency and very well chosen Q.
...but these cannot stand on their own two feet and you need to help them along a little with the mids.
As weird as it may be, the closest thing to the Effectrode Blackbird I have in my home is the Noble.
I do think a perfect pedal to pair the Blackbird with is the Noble's best friend: The Broughton RFE. Not only does it let you go bonkers on the bass and treble because you can limit the effect with the HPF and LPF, no - the filters are actually resonant. And you get a mids knob with selectable frequency and very well chosen Q.
So let's move on to the Tube Drive for a second.
Can't have that one sitting around idle, of course.
When I contacted Phil from Effectrode and asked about that pedal, he more or less told me not to get it and go for the Blackbird instead.
I asked if it cut bass, and he told me that it does not, but the way the gain works might very well be too much for bassists. I accepted that challenge - a device that works on paper but might be "too much" ? I survived the Bliss Factory and the Metal Zone. I'm not scared of gain.
The Meatsmoke in the Boost channel does exactly the same thing, cascading the four gain stages in two 12AX7 tubes to get obscene amounts of gain and grit.
So here's how that experience felt: The bass boost switch, I decided after two seconds of trying it, goes in the 'On' position and stays there.
The "Bright / Mellow" switch is a lot harder. It does certain things to the sound, but I must admit that I could not easily detect which is which.
My guess is that since this is essentially a pre-gain treble boost, the thing that happens here does not really impact the signal I send with my flats, so it feels differently for me than for someone playing guitar or fresh roundwound strings.
Here's my biggest problem with the Tube Drive.
While it is yet again an Effectrode pedal and I cannot praise their attention to detail and workmanship high enough (really, this is top shelf stuff!), the tone knob is quite complicated and I'll simply butcher Phil's detailed and exhausting description by saying that it is a Baxandall tone stack with some extra Mojo in the mids. It's driven by the third tube, the 12AT7, and it is injected without signal loss. This all sounds awesome. And it totally is. But, what is or can be a godsend for a geetar player might be something of a problem for a bass player: It's a tilt EQ. You buy a large low end by paying with treble and vice versa. You want the boosted lows while pushing the treble a bit? Nope. Ain't happening. I love that for guitars, because the pushed treble and cut lows make the guitar shine in the mix while not stepping on the bassist's toes at the same time. But bass has a larger frequency content and dynamic spectrum, and for those I'd like my knobs to do one thing without messing up the other, especially when shaping a drive tone.
This is essentially a red flag for me, large enough to fly above the Kremlin.
It's a bit weird. I seem to have turned into an Effectrode fan boy at some point without realizing it.
Instead of ranting around and flinging mud, I try to explain the design of the pedal and why it's great, but not for me.
I think I have to get riled up some more and then I'll try that again.
Can't have that one sitting around idle, of course.
When I contacted Phil from Effectrode and asked about that pedal, he more or less told me not to get it and go for the Blackbird instead.
I asked if it cut bass, and he told me that it does not, but the way the gain works might very well be too much for bassists. I accepted that challenge - a device that works on paper but might be "too much" ? I survived the Bliss Factory and the Metal Zone. I'm not scared of gain.
The Meatsmoke in the Boost channel does exactly the same thing, cascading the four gain stages in two 12AX7 tubes to get obscene amounts of gain and grit.
So here's how that experience felt: The bass boost switch, I decided after two seconds of trying it, goes in the 'On' position and stays there.
The "Bright / Mellow" switch is a lot harder. It does certain things to the sound, but I must admit that I could not easily detect which is which.
My guess is that since this is essentially a pre-gain treble boost, the thing that happens here does not really impact the signal I send with my flats, so it feels differently for me than for someone playing guitar or fresh roundwound strings.
Here's my biggest problem with the Tube Drive.
While it is yet again an Effectrode pedal and I cannot praise their attention to detail and workmanship high enough (really, this is top shelf stuff!), the tone knob is quite complicated and I'll simply butcher Phil's detailed and exhausting description by saying that it is a Baxandall tone stack with some extra Mojo in the mids. It's driven by the third tube, the 12AT7, and it is injected without signal loss. This all sounds awesome. And it totally is. But, what is or can be a godsend for a geetar player might be something of a problem for a bass player: It's a tilt EQ. You buy a large low end by paying with treble and vice versa. You want the boosted lows while pushing the treble a bit? Nope. Ain't happening. I love that for guitars, because the pushed treble and cut lows make the guitar shine in the mix while not stepping on the bassist's toes at the same time. But bass has a larger frequency content and dynamic spectrum, and for those I'd like my knobs to do one thing without messing up the other, especially when shaping a drive tone.
This is essentially a red flag for me, large enough to fly above the Kremlin.
It's a bit weird. I seem to have turned into an Effectrode fan boy at some point without realizing it.
Instead of ranting around and flinging mud, I try to explain the design of the pedal and why it's great, but not for me.
I think I have to get riled up some more and then I'll try that again.
...but before I rant about the stupid Tube Drive's inability to accommodate down tuned flatwound string bassists in the way they want,
I'd like to ask your help in brainstorming a solution.
This is the current version of my board for the metal band:
Some little explanation: The signal goes tuner - FPT - Meatsmoke - Cali76 - Julia - Bassrig - LPF
Tuner, Meatsmoke channel selector and Chorus are the only foot switches I really use, the upper row is always on.
I'm not really happy with the chorus. When we brought in a second guitar, I find myself not really hearing much of a difference except for one or two seconds in one or two songs.
It is impossible for me to take it off and leave a blank spot, though.
I don't need more gain. I have compression, preamping, EQing and filtering taken care of.
This last spot could be taken by literally anything.
My first impulse was to toss off the Julia and get a Dunlop Mini Bass Wah.
This might be fun, but I'm not entirely convinced about the use of a bass wah in an 80's metal band.
Yes, I know who Cliff Burton is and yes, I know N.I.B.
But there might be something else I'm not thinking about. A Moog MF-103 as a phaser would look nice along with the Meatsmoke, even though I might have to get a bigger board for that.
I could also toss off the Julia, move the Bassrig down and the FPT into the corner so I have a large space up top for a disco ball. Or the Dr. Scientist Spectrum Analyzer. Or an Ape Light.
Any ideas?
Nothing cheap and pedestrian, please.
I'd like to ask your help in brainstorming a solution.
This is the current version of my board for the metal band:
Some little explanation: The signal goes tuner - FPT - Meatsmoke - Cali76 - Julia - Bassrig - LPF
Tuner, Meatsmoke channel selector and Chorus are the only foot switches I really use, the upper row is always on.
I'm not really happy with the chorus. When we brought in a second guitar, I find myself not really hearing much of a difference except for one or two seconds in one or two songs.
It is impossible for me to take it off and leave a blank spot, though.
I don't need more gain. I have compression, preamping, EQing and filtering taken care of.
This last spot could be taken by literally anything.
My first impulse was to toss off the Julia and get a Dunlop Mini Bass Wah.
This might be fun, but I'm not entirely convinced about the use of a bass wah in an 80's metal band.
Yes, I know who Cliff Burton is and yes, I know N.I.B.
But there might be something else I'm not thinking about. A Moog MF-103 as a phaser would look nice along with the Meatsmoke, even though I might have to get a bigger board for that.
I could also toss off the Julia, move the Bassrig down and the FPT into the corner so I have a large space up top for a disco ball. Or the Dr. Scientist Spectrum Analyzer. Or an Ape Light.
Any ideas?
Nothing cheap and pedestrian, please.
Pedal board adjustment:
Unless you're playing dark wave gothic post rock, lose the chorus. It just gets swallowed by the guitars. Flanger can cut through a little better for that.
80s metal bass tone is all about compression of the dirt from my perspective. I'd throw another compressor on, something to give upper mid honk to help cut through. Set obnoxiously.
Or an eq pedal for the same purpose.
Alternatively, make space on the top row and install a digital clock. Sound guys are really impressed with me when they see that on my pedal board.
Unless you're playing dark wave gothic post rock, lose the chorus. It just gets swallowed by the guitars. Flanger can cut through a little better for that.
80s metal bass tone is all about compression of the dirt from my perspective. I'd throw another compressor on, something to give upper mid honk to help cut through. Set obnoxiously.
Or an eq pedal for the same purpose.
Alternatively, make space on the top row and install a digital clock. Sound guys are really impressed with me when they see that on my pedal board.
I've done the compression and EQ with the FPT-Meatsmoke-Cali-Bassrig setup. The bass is exactly where it is supposed to be in the mix.
I actually wasted a few thoughts in that direction. It's a valuable addition to the pedalboard of my other band, that plays long gigs with breaks. This band does short, intense gigs, and therefore, there's no real need for the clock.
My first thought would be phaser.
Not sure if it would work with down tuned flats, but an octave could also be fun. If even just to use on the last note of a phrase or song.
Not sure if it would work with down tuned flats, but an octave could also be fun. If even just to use on the last note of a phrase or song.
While you have overdrive and distortion covered in spades, via the Meatsmoke and DCX (I'm sure the Bass Rig adds a little something as well), how about a nasty, spiteful, biting fuzz? I think metal music and bass fuzz seem to often go hand-in-hand, and it is, generally, a pretty different flavour of dirt than OD or distortion.
I mean, this is the Dirt Bender, after all, no?
Other thoughts could be something like the Foxrox Octron 3, which is analogue octave down, and up. The up is more of an Octavia-style dirty, harmonic overtone thing, rather than a true octave up (which analogue circuits can't really do). This could get into 8-string territory, or super subby and doom-o-licious.
I mean, this is the Dirt Bender, after all, no?
Other thoughts could be something like the Foxrox Octron 3, which is analogue octave down, and up. The up is more of an Octavia-style dirty, harmonic overtone thing, rather than a true octave up (which analogue circuits can't really do). This could get into 8-string territory, or super subby and doom-o-licious.
Here are additional rules for the "Fill the blank spot on my pedalboard" game:
1. No drive pedals. That includes Overdrive, Distortion and Fuzz.
2. No octave pedals. It's me, not them. I don't get along with octavers.
3. No compressors or preamps, either, because there's enough going on in that regard.
4. If possible, let's keep it analog.
1. No drive pedals. That includes Overdrive, Distortion and Fuzz.
2. No octave pedals. It's me, not them. I don't get along with octavers.
3. No compressors or preamps, either, because there's enough going on in that regard.
4. If possible, let's keep it analog.
ADA PBF Flanger
EQD Grand Orbiter Phaser / Aguilar Grape Phaser
Envelope Filter - Take your pick, Broughton Josh Wah is great
@el murdoque You are making this difficult!
The only other thing I can think of that makes sense in a "metal" context might be some super slow phaser; if there are bits in songs where you are riding/pedalling some quick 8ths or 16th notes for a while, letting a slow phaser sweep through that tends to sound pretty cool. It's still on the subtle side of things, but should be more pronounced an effect than the chorus you've been using.
The only other thing I can think of that makes sense in a "metal" context might be some super slow phaser; if there are bits in songs where you are riding/pedalling some quick 8ths or 16th notes for a while, letting a slow phaser sweep through that tends to sound pretty cool. It's still on the subtle side of things, but should be more pronounced an effect than the chorus you've been using.
