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My friend is on dirt
- Thread starter jmattbassplaya
- Start date
I didn't read through all the posts here after the first page, so I don't know if anyone has brought up Suboxone yet.
It's great to hear that your friend is a handle on things.
I didn't see this thread the first time around but my thoughts are with anyone who is hooked on **** they can't quit. That includes all the brave souls in the Effects forum who I thought this thread was about when I saw the title.
I didn't see this thread the first time around but my thoughts are with anyone who is hooked on **** they can't quit. That includes all the brave souls in the Effects forum who I thought this thread was about when I saw the title.
Yes you did, & you explained it all very well too. As far as I'm concerned the stuff is a modern miracle. Problems like his/ours don't go away just by stopping using. STAYING clean is harder than GETTING clean. Here's a few links to forums similar to this one:
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Good Luck!
DiabolusInMusic
Functionless Art is Merely Tolerated Vandalism
Actually heroin is less addictive than caffeine or nicotine, don't let the legalization of things fool you.
I wish you the best for your own health, your friend has enough people wasting sleep over him. The sad thing is that you cannot stop him, you have to let him hit rock bottom and clean up himself. Interventions are for the people that hold them, addicts never clean up because of interventions, they clean up because of their own free will and volition.
I have never had an issue with junk, where we are it is extremely uncommon, but I have spent more on a weekend "party" than plenty of people make in a year, left with nothing to show for it. I have seen plenty of dead friends and serious problems, the only ones that clean up do it on their own powers. I was sent o a couple drug counselors/rehabs and none of it worked.
Methadone is a legal drug, it is like e-cigarettes, probably the absolute worst way to quit. Suboxone is also fairly expensive to my knowledge. There is also another drug/medical procedure where they can flush the junk out of your system in a matter of hours so you don't have to be dopesick for 3-4 days, which can be a major deterrent in people getting clean. There is nothing worse than being cold and sweaty for days, especially when you cannot poo but you feel like taking a 10 lb load off.
I also do not recommend al-anon, alcoholics anonymous, or NA these groups are only useful for providing other recovering support friends, other than that they push a religious agenda on already weak minded people, you become addicted to god instead of drugs. It does nothing to cure their inherent addictive personality.
It is a terrible thing to get caught up in, all you can do is stand your ground and not enable him worse. I am glad to hear your friend is doing better but at this point he is far from clean, he has a long way to go and many decisions to make. You just have to support him and let him know your there to listen.
The thing is, most addicts never do beat their addiction, they merely become very good at avoiding it, which is fine for some people. I still occasionally indulge in my old drug of choice, and I know many recovering alcoholics who still occasionally go out and drink, the thing is all about moderation and learning when to stop and go back to your life, you cannot let your addiction control your life even after you've stopped using. That is truly beating your addiction in my opinion.
The top two statements are both extremely true. Though Bupenorphine (suboxone or subutex) is quite often covered by most insurance plans. With insurance an average Dr visit & script will run you about a $100 A MONTH for both - you can easily spend more than that PER DAY on H if you're in deep, so I don't think it's expensive at all compared to using.
And although I no longer go to meetings, & definitely don't agree with everything that 'they' claim, I do think that in the very early stages of recovery the support from former & like minded people is critical. There's a difference between God & a Higher Power of some sort, it's just that a lot of people there tend to call their higher power god. Your higher power could be just a collective room full of people, which technically is a power greater than myself. You take what you need from the experience & discard what you don't on your way out. Best of luck to your friend whatever road he chooses.
Suboxone is getting MUCH cheaper as we go.
Right now were still paying for the R&D stages of the medicine. Like with any medication.
More and more insurances are starting to pick it up as a legitimate step in recovery and it's getting pretty manageable to do on your own as opposed to the way it was 2 years ago.
The cost per pill is down to below $8 a piece right now. 2 years ago they were closer to $12 a piece.
Soon once they've made their cash back they'll sell the proprietary blend/rights to it and well finally get a generic form of it and then it'll be dirt cheap.
If anyone remember 15 years ago a script of Percocet was several hundred dollars w/o insurance. Now 90 will set you back right around $100-$150 at the pharmacy even for name brand.
It's only going to get easier from here.
I've helped about 13 VERY VERY heavily opioid addicts get better thanks to the help of Suboxone.
I have 2 others I'll be taking next month with me that want to stop. And there are many more to go behind them. My hope is to help all that I know.
Most of these people failed for quite a while before I turned them onto this stuff. Every one of them are now in a better place and finding great success.
Right now were still paying for the R&D stages of the medicine. Like with any medication.
More and more insurances are starting to pick it up as a legitimate step in recovery and it's getting pretty manageable to do on your own as opposed to the way it was 2 years ago.
The cost per pill is down to below $8 a piece right now. 2 years ago they were closer to $12 a piece.
Soon once they've made their cash back they'll sell the proprietary blend/rights to it and well finally get a generic form of it and then it'll be dirt cheap.
If anyone remember 15 years ago a script of Percocet was several hundred dollars w/o insurance. Now 90 will set you back right around $100-$150 at the pharmacy even for name brand.
It's only going to get easier from here.
I've helped about 13 VERY VERY heavily opioid addicts get better thanks to the help of Suboxone.
I have 2 others I'll be taking next month with me that want to stop. And there are many more to go behind them. My hope is to help all that I know.
Most of these people failed for quite a while before I turned them onto this stuff. Every one of them are now in a better place and finding great success.
I brought up Suboxone to my friend and he told me that he has gotten a prescription either for that or something similar to help him out. Apparently it's been working really well for him.
jmattbassplaya said:
Then he may very well be onto a good start,
Most Dr's will start the patient out the first 2 weeks on Subutex which is very similar to Suboxone but has other ingredients to further assist in those first two weeks of the body detoxing.
Suboxone's actual name is Buepenepherine.
There is nothing else "like" it, which is why it's so ridiculously expensive. The company has a miracle drug and a firm death grip on the market right now. That will change but I assume if he's got a script it's for Suboxone or well methadone. (Hopefully not methadone)
jmattbassplaya said:Geez, it's just danger at every corner with this kind of stuff isn't it
It's a medication, care should be taken just as you would with any other medication.
That's what instructions are for, and Dr's and such.
I mean it's definitely possible to OD on it but I've never seen or heard of ANYONE ever OD'n on it.
I'm around and in contact w/ huge amount of people taking it.
My father is a behavioral science therapist (drug counselor basically.
I also have two very very non professional under the table type relationships with Suboxone prescribers and the questions come up numerous times.
I've not once heard it answered with a "yes such n such OD'd the other day or last week"
Not saying it hasn't happened, or couldn't happen.
But in my opinion I choose to view it as a VERY safe medication. More so when compared with what your taking it for.
Maybe others are exposed to circumstances where they see it's effects more than me but I've just NEVER heard of a single case of it.
slobake
resident ... something
A lot of good stuff hear and some that is not so good advise IMHOP. If you are struggling with addiction or know someone that is there are a couple of things you should consider. It is okay to have debates and opinions about different things but addiction is literally a matter of life and death for some people. It is not like having a debate over flatwounds vs roundwounds. Ask yourself "is what I am reading based on experience and fact or is it an opinion?" I am not asking you to believe anything I say based on my word. With something a serious as this check out your options. How many people have recovered using the things or techniques being talked about? How many people have stayed lost in their addiction trying to do some of these things? What is the percentage of success verses failure? This is not about being right or wrong but for some it is about living or dying. Your life depends on the decisions you make.
My apologies to JMatt for going off on a tangent. This is a huge issue in our world and I am glad you are real and honest enough to bring it up.
My apologies to JMatt for going off on a tangent. This is a huge issue in our world and I am glad you are real and honest enough to bring it up.
It's usually a case of a the patent expiring. The patent protection gives you a monopoly for 20 years, but, you need to start patent protection before testing. It isn't uncommon for it to take 15-18 years for a product to go through testing, leaving only a few years in which to make back the R&D money for the drug (and the failed ones).
FYI:
http://www.heroin-detox.org/buprenorphine-suboxone-vs.htm
If Suboxone or Subutex is taken as prescribed, someone with Heroin habit will not overdose! There is significant risk however if someone drinks or uses benzos with it.
http://www.heroin-detox.org/buprenorphine-suboxone-vs.htm
If Suboxone or Subutex is taken as prescribed, someone with Heroin habit will not overdose! There is significant risk however if someone drinks or uses benzos with it.
Well, most things taken as prescribed aren't fatal, but I get what you mean.
I've only known one person to go through rapid detox, but that's something to think about. Since that's one of the biggest barriers to quitting, if you have the insurance and/or cash to have that done, it'd be worth considering. Unfortunately, the guy I knew went back on the bad stuff, but that had nothing to do with rapid detox. It was just him and how he managed sobriety.
If he tries to cold turkey it, valium is the way to go (as said: no drinking). It's just going to be impossible to get a script for those reasons. He would have to do an in-patient thing, and those can be either nice places, or dirty, sketchy places.
How have things gone? Is it over? How is his state of mind? Does he want to get off of it? Has he gotten blood work to check for chronic blood-borne pathogens? If you don't mind, it'd be great to get an update.
Best of luck. I feel for the both of you, and everyone else involved.
I've only known one person to go through rapid detox, but that's something to think about. Since that's one of the biggest barriers to quitting, if you have the insurance and/or cash to have that done, it'd be worth considering. Unfortunately, the guy I knew went back on the bad stuff, but that had nothing to do with rapid detox. It was just him and how he managed sobriety.
If he tries to cold turkey it, valium is the way to go (as said: no drinking). It's just going to be impossible to get a script for those reasons. He would have to do an in-patient thing, and those can be either nice places, or dirty, sketchy places.
How have things gone? Is it over? How is his state of mind? Does he want to get off of it? Has he gotten blood work to check for chronic blood-borne pathogens? If you don't mind, it'd be great to get an update.
Best of luck. I feel for the both of you, and everyone else involved.
Today I was physically attacked (on the job) by a heroin user. We were called to a possible OD. Arrived and he immediately got aggressive and then violent. He apparently was dopesick all night last night and today when he still couldnt get any he took a bunch of triple bar xanax. PD was there and he was subdued and taken into custody and he agreed to go to the hospital and check himself in.
We have had over 30 fatalities from heroin OD's so far this year in the county I live in. I have ran at least 25 OD's myself so far this year. Thank God for Narcan (naloxone). A buddy of mine had a user tell him after an OD that he wasnt scared of dying cuz as long as the Paramedics got there soon enough and "gave him that narcam stuff" then he didnt have to worry about dying.
Last year one of my closest friends growing up OD'ed and was found dead in his room by his mom. He had been living with her for the last year or so after losing most everything. At 25 y/o the guy was making well over six figures. At 44 he died penniless and virtually homeless.
Absolutely horrible stuff and I wish you and your friend success in his recovery. The only thing I know is that unless he really wants to get better he won't.
We have had over 30 fatalities from heroin OD's so far this year in the county I live in. I have ran at least 25 OD's myself so far this year. Thank God for Narcan (naloxone). A buddy of mine had a user tell him after an OD that he wasnt scared of dying cuz as long as the Paramedics got there soon enough and "gave him that narcam stuff" then he didnt have to worry about dying.
Last year one of my closest friends growing up OD'ed and was found dead in his room by his mom. He had been living with her for the last year or so after losing most everything. At 25 y/o the guy was making well over six figures. At 44 he died penniless and virtually homeless.
Absolutely horrible stuff and I wish you and your friend success in his recovery. The only thing I know is that unless he really wants to get better he won't.
