My guitarist keeps down tuning

[obimark]

Well let's see here- if the guitarist and the bassist are both playing in the same octave, how are you to tell the difference between either instrument, how is this "defined". Unless they both have radically different tones?

Like I said, some of you just want to be different for difference sake, which is fine.

But Black Sabbath, Led Zep and even Deep Purple, early Iron Maiden will be HEAVIER than any of these Djent bands, with mostly standard tuning other than when Black Sabbath went to C# downtuning.

For fun, bring a cheap guitar to your next practice and say, well since you are playing the bass (essentially) one of us has to cover the high end guitar parts!

 

[I am Soma]

Well let's see here- if the guitarist and the bassist are both playing in the same octave, how are you to tell the difference between either instrument, how is this "defined". Unless they both have radically different tones?

Like I said, some of you just want to be different for difference sake, which is fine.

But Black Sabbath, Led Zep and even Deep Purple, early Iron Maiden will be HEAVIER than any of these Djent bands, with mostly standard tuning other than when Black Sabbath went to C# downtuning.

For fun, bring a cheap guitar to your next practice and say, well since you are playing the bass (essentially) one of us has to cover the high end guitar parts!

personaly couldn't find any of the bands youve listed farther from "heavy". yes having different tones helps but i guess ive never been in a band where the guitarist and bassist have the same tone....heck i dont even know how thats possible without sitting down and trying to dial in together which would be odd....

it can be done. it is done. it sounds awesome. you dont dig it and judging by the bands you are listening that makes sense but not everyone is living in that era. progress is great

 

[steelbed45]

Lots of people confusing their opinion for fact. Down tuning can/does work if done properly and sounds amazing IMHO. I haven't been in a standard tuning in ten years and have my E string in A at the moment. Nothing muddy about the guitarist or my tone at all and it sounds massive. Being open minded is the kittens mittens.

As a casual observer, if you use alternate tunings exclusively...wouldn't that make you close-minded to standard tuning? You are simply on the opposite side of the fence here.
While I agree with your sentiment, I'm not seeing that.

 

[I am Soma]

As a casual observer, if you use alternate tunings exclusively...wouldn't that make you close-minded to standard tuning? You are simply on the opposite side of the fence here.
While I agree with your sentiment, I'm not seeing that.

if i was sayiing its the only way to tune and that standard tuning doesnt work than i would say i was being closed minded. standard tuning works beautifully and the majority of music i listen to is in standard

they both work great!

 

[MarkMgibson]

Lots of people confusing their opinion for fact. Down tuning can/does work if done properly and sounds amazing IMHO. I haven't been in a standard tuning in ten years and have my E string in A at the moment. Nothing muddy about the guitarist or my tone at all and it sounds massive. Being open minded is the kittens mittens.

Sure, it's always opinion, but I've been playing guitar professionally all my life, and it doesn't sounds "amazing" to me. Sure, half a step to accommodate piano players, but beyond that, I reckon it sounds bloody awful. Whenever I hear bands (usually metal bands) playing is some crazy low tuning, it's just embarrassing how bad it sounds. I reckon it's one of those things people do because they think it sounds cool or "massive", but it always sound dull and weak IMHO.

 

[I am Soma]

Sure, it's always opinion, but I've been playing guitar professionally all my life, and it doesn't sounds "amazing" to me. Sure, half a step to accommodate piano players, but beyond that, I reckon it sounds bloody awful. Whenever I hear bands (usually metal bands) playing is some crazy low tuning, it's just embarrassing how bad it sounds. I reckon it's one of those things people do because they think it sounds cool or "massive", but it always sound dull and weak IMHO.

and thats whats great about music. something that sounds bad to you sounds great to me and vice versa. its a good thing and thats why there is so much variation in music and variations in how we as artists approach music. yes i do think it sounds cool/good - why else would i play it?

i just dont think anyone needs to dog someone elses opinion/preference. be happy we dont all like the same thing and that we can all find creative ways to make music

 

[MarkMgibson]

and thats whats great about music. something that sounds bad to you sounds great to me and vice versa. its a good thing and thats why there is so much variation in music and variations in how we as artists approach music. yes i do think it sounds cool/good - why else would i play it?

i just dont think anyone needs to dog someone elses opinion/preference. be happy we dont all like the same thing and that we can all find creative ways to make music

True enough. I'm just giving an opinion; not slagging anyone off for their's. That's what forums are for, otherwise they're rather dull.

Have a good one, Soma.
Mark

 

[I am Soma]

True enough. I'm just giving an opinion; not slagging anyone off for their's. That's what forums are for, otherwise they're rather dull.

Have a good one, Soma.
Mark

very good point - if the forums were boring what would i do all day at work

 

[45acp]

I like dropped tunings but it's not for everyone and there are a lot of bands that cant get it to sound right live.

For the record, I am in a typical generic rock bar band and we only play half step down or dropped D (Db).

More often than not ive seen guitarists using the meshuggah type super low tunings that run too much distortion and the old smiley faced EQ setting and this screws it all up. Light string gauge also makes it worse.

If the guitarist can setup his rig and make it sound good with the band (NOT home alone in a basement) then you guys will sound fine and the guitar will not be walking over the bass. A good tone on a 7 string guitar is not about the fundamental on the B string (or A... however you're tuning). If he has proper string tension, is not using super mega digitech crap distortion cranked to 11, and has an understanding of how gain shapes tone on dropped tunings then you guys should be able to pull it off nicely all while cleanly hearing the bass.

 

[IPYF]

Sure, it's always opinion, but I've been playing guitar professionally all my life, and it doesn't sounds "amazing" to me. Sure, half a step to accommodate piano players, but beyond that, I reckon it sounds bloody awful. Whenever I hear bands (usually metal bands) playing is some crazy low tuning, it's just embarrassing how bad it sounds. I reckon it's one of those things people do because they think it sounds cool or "massive", but it always sound dull and weak IMHO.

The first thing that people think of when they think Down Tuning" or "8 String Guitar" is of some kid in a music store going 0-1, 0 -0 - 0 -1 on that low string over and over again. Most folks don't think past that which is pretty disappointing because it negates a lot of awesome possibilities. People have this attitude that low tuning is for noobs who can't play, or for kids who want to sound 'hard'. Just remember that there are plenty of scrubs who play in standard tuning.

7 string guitars are awesome. 8 strings are even cooler. The reason? Well you've now got 9 brand new notes at the bottom of your register that you can use in songs. You could run a drone string or two, maybe even change genre in the middle of the song. The possibilities are endless.

Have a listen to this. Even if it's not your thing you have to admit these guys use the potential of those extra notes to excellent effect:

 

[I am Soma]

The first thing that people think of when they think Down Tuning" or "8 String Guitar" is of some kid in a music store going 0-1, 0 -0 - 0 -1 on that low string over and over again. Most folks don't think past that which is pretty disappointing because it negates a lot of awesome possibilities. People have this attitude that low tuning is for noobs who can't play, or for kids who want to sound 'hard'. Just remember that there are plenty of scrubs who play in standard tuning.

7 string guitars are awesome. 8 strings are even cooler. The reason? Well you've now got 9 brand new notes at the bottom of your register that you can use in songs. You could run a drone string or two, maybe even change genre in the middle of the song. The possibilities are endless.

Have a listen to this. Even if it's not your thing you have to admit these guys use the potential of those extra notes to excellent effect:

 

[bassboysam]

Why hasn't anyone asked if it serves the song or band? That's all that matters. If it does and the OP doesn't want to play that type of music, then find another band. If you do, man up and get some .250 gauge Circle Ks and tune down or play in the same octave.

If it doesn't serve the song then you have a guitarist who isn't a very good songwriter, in which case voice your opinion and if you can't come to an agreement leave the band.

 

[bassboysam]

Well let's see here- if the guitarist and the bassist are both playing in the same octave, how are you to tell the difference between either instrument, how is this "defined". Unless they both have radically different tones?

Like I said, some of you just want to be different for difference sake, which is fine.

But Black Sabbath, Led Zep and even Deep Purple, early Iron Maiden will be HEAVIER than any of these Djent bands, with mostly standard tuning other than when Black Sabbath went to C# downtuning.

For fun, bring a cheap guitar to your next practice and say, well since you are playing the bass (essentially) one of us has to cover the high end guitar parts!

Why do you need to distinguish the bass and guitar? sometimes it sounds really good to have them in the same octace and sound like one big machine. I do it all the time in my band where the guitarist sometimes drops to Ab but I stay in Eb standard.

I guess we should all give up because we'll never be as good, innovative or heavy as those guys...

all those bands did not tune down, but they turned up and distorted their guitars and basses to find a new refreshing "heavy" sound. But heaven forbid we try something to different to sound heavy/heavier.

 

[Epitaph04]

Check this guy out. Tosin Abasi. He plays an 8 string guitar...lowest string is tuned to E1 (oh noes!)

He's not your typical chug chug metal guitarist. I'd rather listen to him play than many other bass players out there.

 

[Mushroo]

Unbelievable! It took until page 4 of the thread for someone to use the word "song."

If the guitarist is the principal songwriter of the band, and the songs he is writing sound good downtuned, then let him downtune. As the bass player, you can choose to downtune or not downtune, as you wish. There is no rule that says the strings of the bass must be tuned to the same pitches as the strings of the guitar! (Unless the guitarist is paying you $$ in which case do what he tells you to do).

If you are the principal songwriter of the band, and the guitarist's downtuning is interfering with the songs you wrote, then tell him so in a mature fashion.

If you're playing cover songs, then try to stick close to the original (maybe up or down a half step or two to accommodate your singer's vocal range).

If you're not playing songs then... I don't even know what to say.

 

[curbowkid]

Check this guy out. Tosin Abasi. He plays an 8 string guitar...lowest string is tuned to E1 (oh noes!)

He's not your typical chug chug metal guitarist. I'd rather listen to him play than many other bass players out there.

I saw them (Animals As Leaders) play live and it was un-*******-believable. It was flawless and godly.

 

[dcarwin]

I've been playing guitar professionally all my life...Whenever I hear bands playing is some crazy low tuning, it's just embarrassing how bad it sounds. ... it always sound dull and weak IMHO.

This is some funny stuff here. ^^^


On the other hand, I ask my guitar player to try a lower tuning and he won't. Too much trouble to get them floating floyd whammy bars right. Everybody's got problems.

 

[wobble man]

To the OP: if you like the music it and it sounds good, I wouldn't worry about your guitarists foray into the "bass" register. You can still put down good bass lines on your 5er regardless of his tuning. If his tone is getting all farty and undefined because of his tuning, and you don't like that, that's a different matter.

To people hating on detuned and extended-range instruments: It's not your thing. So what. Country music is not my thing, but I don't say country music sucks. And how dare a guitarist enter my "territory"? If I really wanted to own the bass register, I would play a synth lol. Then I could go sub-audible and shake the room at the same time.

 

[obimark]

Saw a great interview with Neil Schon, he said he deliberately stayed out of Ross Vallory's bass range and the keyboard range. Why? So the whole sound of the song sounded better.

Downtuned songs are also a real PIA for gigs.

Yeah the audience really wants to sit around while you switch guitars between every other song, NOT.) Unless you do everything in the same downtuning, but hey I can see why some of these heavier than thou folks do it, because they don't have an "actual Singer" they have a guy who grunts and issues guttural sounds at low octaves. Their voice actually is competing with bass guitar notes as much as anything else.

 

[bassboysam]

Saw a great interview with Neil Schon, he said he deliberately stayed out of Ross Vallory's bass range and the keyboard range. Why? So the whole sound of the song sounded better.

Downtuned songs are also a real PIA for gigs.

Yeah the audience really wants to sit around while you switch guitars between every other song, NOT.) Unless you do everything in the same downtuning, but hey I can see why some of these heavier than thou folks do it, because they don't have an "actual Singer" they have a guy who grunts and issues guttural sounds at low octaves. Their voice actually is competing with bass guitar notes as much as anything else.

"better" is subjective. and if anything, you are the one coming off with an attitude.

Also no one in our audience ever complained when we switch guitars. I don't know who you audience is but you can't assume that everyone on here is playing to the same audience. There is probably very little crossover between Neil Schon's audience and something like this.