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My guitarist keeps down tuning

#81
Just my opinion, but there is nothing more amateur-hour than a band playing a live-gig (whether originals or covers) that has long stops between almost every song where- they mess with there tuning, effects, switching instruments, etc... as I said to each there own, but please don't kid yourselves, thinking any of your favortie Djent bands are heavier than Zep or Sabbath... because they tuned their bass down to F# Low...sorry if that hurts but it is the truth.
 
#82
obimark said:
Just my opinion, but there is nothing more amateur-hour than a band playing a live-gig (whether originals or covers) that has long stops between almost every song where- they mess with there tuning, effects, switching instruments, etc... as I said to each there own, but please don't kid yourselves, thinking any of your favortie Djent bands are heavier than Zep or Sabbath... because they tuned their bass down to F# Low...sorry if that hurts but it is the truth.
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I never said tuning down instantly makes it heavier, which is also a subjective term. You still need to be a good musician regardless what you tune to. There are just as many ***** bands tuned to E as there are F#. Personally I think early Funkadelic is heavier than all the bands you listed...but that doesn't prove anything either.
 
#85
obimark said:
Just my opinion, but there is nothing more amateur-hour than a band playing a live-gig (whether originals or covers) that has long stops between almost every song where- they mess with there tuning, effects, switching instruments, etc... as I said to each there own, but please don't kid yourselves, thinking any of your favortie Djent bands are heavier than Zep or Sabbath... because they tuned their bass down to F# Low...sorry if that hurts but it is the truth.
Click to expand...

I think you are confusing your opinion with fact again. Heaviness is all relative.
 
#86
My suggestion is abandon the concept of bass and guitar and start thinking as a string ensemble. What I mean is: if both of you are in the same frequency range then you could play very complex chords because you can think as if you had a 13string instrument and 4 hands. Go take a look at some recent Deftones interviews were they explain the writing process to use an 8 string guitar with a standard (or drop D not sure now) 4 string bass.

As side notes, just because he has 8 strings doesn't mean he has to use the low string as pedal note for everything. Also, a good 5 string with good strings can be tuned to F# or even G and still sound good, it's a matter of EQ and how you play.

P.S. - even tuned to the same octave bass and guitar sound completely different so use that.
 
#91
MarkMgibson said:
As a guitarist, I completely agree. What the hell is the point? All this tuning down lower and lower to sound "heavy" is utter nonsense. Tell your guitarist to listen to the first 2 Zeppelin albums. Now that's "heavy" - the tuning has stuff all to do with it.

As for 7 and 8 strings guitars - they're purely a sad excuse for people who can't play a proper guitar with a proper tuning. Those low notes are supposed to be played by the bass guitarist - otherwise what's the point of having one?

"Muddy" is right. Anything below drop D tuning sounds like crap on a guitar, assuming you value tone.
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So, you're not a fan of Black Sabbath, I guess?
 
#94
Sartori said:
It's not Drop D Flat. It's Db/C# Standard.

Still, that's lower than Drop D. So by MarkMgibson's standard, everything Tony Iommi played on Master of Reality sounds like crap.
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That guy was just being passionately inflammatory. It was just a thinly veiled jab at people who play metal in a style that he dislikes. I don't think there's any logic to his argument or most of the anti-metal sentiment pervading through this thread completely unnecessarily.

Additionally this conversation isn't about changing tunings mid gig. That wasn't part of the OP's problem so I don't see any reason to be discussing issues surrounding tuning on stage or changing instruments.

If we want to have an argument about the validity of drop tuning it should be taken elsewhere. I think it's a stupid argument and I'm ultra confused as to why it's being played out in a forum mostly populated by moderately intelligent people but I'm happy to join in elsewhere.

lets help the OP by staying on topic. If I were in his position I'd do one of two things:
1: Get some heavy strings, get down low and see how it feels.
or
2. Talk to your guitarist about shaping the tones of both instruments so the parts work. Then tuning shouldn't be a factor.

I personally play my 4 string in straight C tuning. That's for all the bands I play with, regardless of what they tune to. It doesn't matter if I'm playing with a blues act or with a death metal group, I like to have those extra low notes on tap on my instrument. I get asked why I don't play a 5 string if I like those notes so much. Well the simple answer is that I don't like to play 5 string basses. Maybe the OP's guitarist doesn't favour a 7 string or can't afford one. This could be a big factor in why he's tuning so low. It's also a lot of fun to get down there and grunt along in the low register. I get really sick of all this droll "Drop tuning is for faux kool kids" sh*t that flies around every time one of these topics come up. Especially since in most conversations it's completely accepted that the 5 string bass is designed to go down to B, but woe betide any guitarist who would want to run an extra string on the bottom. Better get that guy back in line before people get bent out of shape. Damn punk probably thinks he's playing heavier than Jimmy Page and everything.
 
#97
Wow people want to jump down all sorts of tangents. I do find it amusing that rock and roll got heavy in the 70's, a mere 20 years after birth, but couldn't possibly get heavier today..

Anyways, if you're not happy with the downtuning and its not jiving with your playing you might want to move on. I feel you, I played in a prog metal band that tuned down to A... Sorry but detuning my B string didn't sound good to me, nor did I have much control due to the floppiness of it. I ended up just keeping it at B and playing the A stuff the same octave as the guitar. I tried to argue that it would be heavier if they just tuned to B so I could play the full octave below, but they didn't bite. Whatever.

With that said, I applaud pioneers pushing the limits of guitar, bass, you name it. Saw this guy TEAR it up opening for Meshuggah last month, fantastic show, pretty much 8 string guitars everywhere that night. And it was bloody heavy too, for the record..

 
#98
remainthesame said:
I just dont see the point in having a bass player if youre going to be able to reproduce the lowest note on a four string.
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This. Tell him if he wants to play bass, put down the freaking guitar. but, then again, he'll probably blow the crap out of his speakers any day now. That should bring him back up a few notes.
 
#99
IPYF said:
That guy was just being passionately inflammatory. It was just a thinly veiled jab at people who play metal in a style that he dislikes. I don't think there's any logic to his argument or most of the anti-metal sentiment pervading through this thread completely unnecessarily.

Additionally this conversation isn't about changing tunings mid gig. That wasn't part of the OP's problem so I don't see any reason to be discussing issues surrounding tuning on stage or changing instruments.

If we want to have an argument about the validity of drop tuning it should be taken elsewhere. I think it's a stupid argument and I'm ultra confused as to why it's being played out in a forum mostly populated by moderately intelligent people but I'm happy to join in elsewhere.

lets help the OP by staying on topic. If I were in his position I'd do one of two things:
1: Get some heavy strings, get down low and see how it feels.
or
2. Talk to your guitarist about shaping the tones of both instruments so the parts work. Then tuning shouldn't be a factor.

I personally play my 4 string in straight C tuning. That's for all the bands I play with, regardless of what they tune to. It doesn't matter if I'm playing with a blues act or with a death metal group, I like to have those extra low notes on tap on my instrument. I get asked why I don't play a 5 string if I like those notes so much. Well the simple answer is that I don't like to play 5 string basses. Maybe the OP's guitarist doesn't favour a 7 string or can't afford one. This could be a big factor in why he's tuning so low. It's also a lot of fun to get down there and grunt along in the low register. I get really sick of all this droll "Drop tuning is for faux kool kids" sh*t that flies around every time one of these topics come up. Especially since in most conversations it's completely accepted that the 5 string bass is designed to go down to B, but woe betide any guitarist who would want to run an extra string on the bottom. Better get that guy back in line before people get bent out of shape. Damn punk probably thinks he's playing heavier than Jimmy Page and everything.
Click to expand...

When did I say I was "anti-metal"? I wasn't "jabbing" at anyone. I just said all the bands I've heard play in these tunings are metal bands. The ones I've seen live who play in ultra-low tunings sounded awful. Sure, you can make it sound good in a studio, but live - not so easy.

I saw Sabbath with their original line up in the late 70's (damn, they played loud), and they played half a step lower than standard. Tony Iommi might have played with drop tuning on some songs (too long ago to remember), but that isn't nearly as low as some of the tunings you're talking about here.

"Passionately inflammatory"? I just gave an opinion, and I certainly didn't slag off any type of music. Metal just happens to be the style of music that most commonly uses these tunings.

Regards,
MarkM

P.S. If I jab at you, I certainly won't veil it. ;)
 

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