The installers/suppliers may have other cost effective options. I'm sure you've already thought of that.
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My New Studio Build (perhaps overly detailed)
- Thread starter silky smoove
- Start date
No it would not. Overly can legally only sell through their licensed distributors. The folks at Overly confirmed this with me over the phone. The ONLY two distributors in the area have been contacted. One is getting me a quote, the other already has it (see above). If an installer got one it would have to be through the same distributors as me. I have the detailed invoice on the first one, and all of the costs minus the distributor’s markup come directly from Overly. Going with an installer would be the same cost but with an additional markup.
Full stop. Overly doesn’t sell doors. They manufacture them and a distributor sells them. They told me flat out that they are not legally allowed to sell to end users or a non-licensed distributor. I don’t know the legalities of it, but the terms were absolute.
The installer won’t get a discount since they’d have to get it from the distributor. The distributor’s costs are largely fixed based on the invoice that I was given. The only cost savings would be if the distributor elected to not charge a markup which would never happen. The installer might know of a used one somewhere, but since these doors are custom manufacturered to fit the specific rough opening dimensions the likelihood of finding one that fits is incredibly slim. The rough opening height and width might be fine, but the 9” leaf depth due to the wall assembly is a unicorn to say the least.
Believe me when I say that I’ve exhausted every option on this, and it boils down to the following:
- Purchase a manufactured sound isolation door from Overly and get good results, but be out a ton of money. More than I want the project to bear quite frankly.
- Purchase a manufactured sound isolation door from IsoDoor or Wenger, both of which have excellent product data that equals Overly, but don’t come with the pedigree or volumes of good reviews. In fact, the only data I can find on IsoDoor is on the AVS (i.e. home theater) forums, and Wenger is a mystery. Wenger offers a full lite model, IsoDoor does not.
- Build a “super door” at a considerable savings, but deal with the complexities, extreme difficulty and potentially expensive DIY related mistakes.
though I doubtless have less experience in general relative to most of the others in this thread, I have found the hard way maaaaany times in the audio world: you get what you pay for. Initially going the budget option has always bitten me in the ass, from basses to amps to interfaces to mics to guitars, violins, and everything in between. I've easily wasted thousands in my musical career trying to save a buck, only to find that my budget gear sucks and paying for the more expensive option later anyway.
I just found a batch of independent tests done by an accredited sound laboratory on the IsoDoor and IsoDoor HD. They coincide with the claims made on the IsoDoor website so closely that I suspect IsoDoor shipped them a couple doors and simply printed the test results. Fortunately the test results are good and compare very closely to Overly’s products at a much lower cost. No full lite option, but... I guess I can’t be picky at this point. I’m going to call them tomorrow. I really don’t want to build my own door so this is feeling like the direction I’ll be headed.
Shoot, I forgot who made my door but I’m very pleased. It is solid with no window but quality all around
Have you considered IAC? Not sure how affordable they are. They list an installer located in Bellevue.
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Diabolical!
I've not seen their stuff mentioned anywhere, but definitely worth a look. From their marketing they remind me of Wenger's products.
Hey, you've already got a prospect for your first install!
I just got off a chat window with Eric at IsoDoor. I'm very impressed with their customer service and technical knowledge. I'm going to roll the dice and order one of their doors. Transcript of our conversation is below for anyone with too much time on their hands. I'm in italics, Eric from IsoDoor is in bold.
I'm interested in an IsoDoor HD LF. Would it be possible to fit one into an existing rough opening with dimensions as follows: Top Width: 38 1/4" Bottom Width: 38" Left Height: 81 1/8" Right Height: 81 3/8" Wall Depth: 9" Wall depth is measured from face of drywall to face of drywall. The entire assembly is: single sheet of drywall 2x6 framing Whisper Clip hat channel single sheet of drywall Green Glue second sheet of drywall I have pictures with dimensions available.
Yes, it's basically cut down in height by an inch. The width is standard.
Is this a measured thickness of wall then and not estimated?
Yes, it was measured by me.
Sounds good. All standard then except a slightly shorter door, which is no problem.
Those images should clarify what I've got to work with. [attached images removed]
With 5/8" drywall, the 9" makes sense.
Yep, all 5/8" type X drywall.
For the width and height of the door, we would only look at the smallest dimensions
So basically 38" x 81-1/8".
Is there any performance loss with doors utilizing a glass kit?
Only in the lowest of frequencies. We use small glass kits though that maintain the STC rating and most of the low frequency ratings. The glass kits are small and quite heavy duty.
I should clarify too that there is a testable difference between a door with or without a glass kit, but not an audible one.
That's fine. I expected some loss, but visibility is a big deal for the function of this space. It's a small home studio built into an accessory structure, and without a window there's no way to see if someone is in the middle of tracking a part should a third person decide to walk in. Take ruined! haha
Yeah, for sure
I would recommend glass kit 2, the 6" x 28", so people of varying heights can see through the glass.
Good call. I was waffling between the 6x28 and the 12x12.
I think the 6x28 looks more stylish too.
What's the best way to place an order for a door with my specific dimensions?
You can order online from isostore.com. It will be a standard door. Then just email in with your order number and request the height to be cut down by 1".
Perfect
With the glass kit, is the glazing shipped already installed in the door or is it a separate installation that I'd need a window contractor to do?
It's shipped fully installed. It's an insulated glass unit that is installed, sealed, and trimmed out. So there's nothing your installer needs to do and you only need to clean the glass from the outside.
Most glass kits for doors have individual panes that you actually have to remove and clean inside and out.
Wonderful!
Is there anything else that you would recommend ordering with the door? I have a lot of Green Glue sealant (not to mention damping compound leftover) from the rest of the construction, so I'm good there. I saw a reference to putty pads. Are the seals included? Basically I want to get everything needed in one shipment if possible.
With the door, all you need to provide is a door handle and then something to seal around the perimeter between the door jamb and the framing.
The Sealant will work great for the sides. Putty works great for larger gaps like above the door or you can fill in that space with drywall or wood scrap.
The header jamb won't have any screws through it so you can slide materials into that space.
From there, just caulk whatever gaps remain. That's the easiest and cheapest.
The door itself will include the slab, hinges, jamb, and all the isolation seals required to seal the door.
Are the seals magnetic or compression? (just out of curiosity)
Compression
Low compression seals at that. Magnetic seals and the high compression seals (most common) are difficult to use.
Difficult to use in terms of installing them correctly, or difficult to use in terms of day-to-day opening and closing of the installed door?
A little of both. Impossible to create a quality seal in the top corners. And if it were to create the same quality of seal for isolating sound, the rubber would have to compress 50%. To do so, it would require a good 1,000 pounds of pressure.
So generally people install the high compression seals so they come in contact with the door and assume that is a seal. But for sound, it is not. They're really intended more for keeping bugs and pests out of commercial pantries. Someone re-purposed them for isolating sound, a bunch of steel door manufacturers tested their doors using the seals, and now they're common place. Although for the intent of isolating sound, they do a very poor job. Manufacturers can't change their seals though or they would have to redo their testing. If they redo their testing, their doors will rate lower with the new standards.
Thus, the big bulky seals remain.
The more things change, the more they stay the same huh? haha
Thanks for the explanation. Very helpful.
Yes, it's all very funny for us as our testing was much more recent and with new door seal 'technology'. So that's one of our big benefits. It makes our doors appear that they have lower STC ratings of course, but that's all worked out as the specs on our doors are much better and simpler for most projects.
I was much more interested in the TL numbers than the STC rating. TL I can understand since we're simply talking frequencies and decibels. STC always feels sort of vague to me.
Is any sort of automatic door closer needed with your doors? I've read reports of heavy doors slamming when installed without a closer and causing repeated stress/trauma issues to both the hinges and in some cases the wall assembly. One nasty report was of a fellow getting his fingers stuck in a super heavy sound door as it was closing.
STC is very misleading and generally irrelevant anymore. Good for an office space or similar.
No automatic door closer needed. They're not the easiest doors to slam, but certainly if someone does, then you will lose whatever is caught between the slab and the jamb when it closes. I can't imagine a finger would hold up to a slammed isolation door.
An auto closer would have more of a risk of getting fingers stuck, in my opinion. Otherwise only close the door when it's clear to close. Auto closers, some of them at least, will keep trying to close regardless of push back.
Kind of like an old school garage door that will trap you under a door.
How about a threshold? Is one required for your door to operate correctly? I'll be installing some type of hard engineered flooring above my plywood sub-floor. Likely an engineered hardwood or luxury vinyl plank type flooring. Will that provide a sufficient seal on the bottom or will a threshold still be required?
We ship an acoustic threshold with each door since we used it in testing, but that's up to you on whether you want to use it. It's installed after the fact, so you can install it later if you feel you need it. It's valuable for redundancy.
The automatic door bottom installed in the slab will seal against your flooring with no problem. The acoustic threshold provides a second seal to the side of the slab, which also creates an air space between the seal of the automatic door bottom and the acoustic threshold.
Wonderful. That makes it easy.
Regarding the floor and sub-floor. The dimensions I gave previously were to the sub-floor. Does the thickness of the finish floor need to be factored into the door dimensions?
Only if you have an unusually thick floor. Our 80" door is 81-1/4" with jamb, seals, and space beneath for everything to function. Yours would ultimately be 80-1/4". So you will have 3/4" for your finish floor and an extra 1/8" on top.
We would recommend you install the door after the flooring is installed or use a spacer equal to the thickness of your flooring when installing the jambs.
This way the space from the bottom of the jamb to the bottom of the slab remains the same.
Thanks for all your help Eric. I'm going to chat with my wife (she's providing all of the aesthetic expertise on this project, haha) and make a call regarding paint grade versus stain grade. I'm going to place an order today. Thanks again!
Sounds good. When in doubt, just order the stain grade. The door itself won't really be any different, you'll just end up with a slab that has less wood variation in it.
All of our doors are solid wood, whether paint or stain grade.
Oh... Good point! I'd only paint the door if the wood clashed with the flooring (wood appearance) or the wood veneer on my acoustic treatments.
Thanks Eric!
You are welcome. Let us know if you have any more questions at all. We are happy to help.
I'm interested in an IsoDoor HD LF. Would it be possible to fit one into an existing rough opening with dimensions as follows: Top Width: 38 1/4" Bottom Width: 38" Left Height: 81 1/8" Right Height: 81 3/8" Wall Depth: 9" Wall depth is measured from face of drywall to face of drywall. The entire assembly is: single sheet of drywall 2x6 framing Whisper Clip hat channel single sheet of drywall Green Glue second sheet of drywall I have pictures with dimensions available.
Yes, it's basically cut down in height by an inch. The width is standard.
Is this a measured thickness of wall then and not estimated?
Yes, it was measured by me.
Sounds good. All standard then except a slightly shorter door, which is no problem.
Those images should clarify what I've got to work with. [attached images removed]
With 5/8" drywall, the 9" makes sense.
Yep, all 5/8" type X drywall.
For the width and height of the door, we would only look at the smallest dimensions
So basically 38" x 81-1/8".
Is there any performance loss with doors utilizing a glass kit?
Only in the lowest of frequencies. We use small glass kits though that maintain the STC rating and most of the low frequency ratings. The glass kits are small and quite heavy duty.
I should clarify too that there is a testable difference between a door with or without a glass kit, but not an audible one.
That's fine. I expected some loss, but visibility is a big deal for the function of this space. It's a small home studio built into an accessory structure, and without a window there's no way to see if someone is in the middle of tracking a part should a third person decide to walk in. Take ruined! haha
Yeah, for sure
I would recommend glass kit 2, the 6" x 28", so people of varying heights can see through the glass.
Good call. I was waffling between the 6x28 and the 12x12.
I think the 6x28 looks more stylish too.
What's the best way to place an order for a door with my specific dimensions?
You can order online from isostore.com. It will be a standard door. Then just email in with your order number and request the height to be cut down by 1".
Perfect
With the glass kit, is the glazing shipped already installed in the door or is it a separate installation that I'd need a window contractor to do?
It's shipped fully installed. It's an insulated glass unit that is installed, sealed, and trimmed out. So there's nothing your installer needs to do and you only need to clean the glass from the outside.
Most glass kits for doors have individual panes that you actually have to remove and clean inside and out.
Wonderful!
Is there anything else that you would recommend ordering with the door? I have a lot of Green Glue sealant (not to mention damping compound leftover) from the rest of the construction, so I'm good there. I saw a reference to putty pads. Are the seals included? Basically I want to get everything needed in one shipment if possible.
With the door, all you need to provide is a door handle and then something to seal around the perimeter between the door jamb and the framing.
The Sealant will work great for the sides. Putty works great for larger gaps like above the door or you can fill in that space with drywall or wood scrap.
The header jamb won't have any screws through it so you can slide materials into that space.
From there, just caulk whatever gaps remain. That's the easiest and cheapest.
The door itself will include the slab, hinges, jamb, and all the isolation seals required to seal the door.
Are the seals magnetic or compression? (just out of curiosity)
Compression
Low compression seals at that. Magnetic seals and the high compression seals (most common) are difficult to use.
Difficult to use in terms of installing them correctly, or difficult to use in terms of day-to-day opening and closing of the installed door?
A little of both. Impossible to create a quality seal in the top corners. And if it were to create the same quality of seal for isolating sound, the rubber would have to compress 50%. To do so, it would require a good 1,000 pounds of pressure.
So generally people install the high compression seals so they come in contact with the door and assume that is a seal. But for sound, it is not. They're really intended more for keeping bugs and pests out of commercial pantries. Someone re-purposed them for isolating sound, a bunch of steel door manufacturers tested their doors using the seals, and now they're common place. Although for the intent of isolating sound, they do a very poor job. Manufacturers can't change their seals though or they would have to redo their testing. If they redo their testing, their doors will rate lower with the new standards.
Thus, the big bulky seals remain.
The more things change, the more they stay the same huh? haha
Thanks for the explanation. Very helpful.
Yes, it's all very funny for us as our testing was much more recent and with new door seal 'technology'. So that's one of our big benefits. It makes our doors appear that they have lower STC ratings of course, but that's all worked out as the specs on our doors are much better and simpler for most projects.
I was much more interested in the TL numbers than the STC rating. TL I can understand since we're simply talking frequencies and decibels. STC always feels sort of vague to me.
Is any sort of automatic door closer needed with your doors? I've read reports of heavy doors slamming when installed without a closer and causing repeated stress/trauma issues to both the hinges and in some cases the wall assembly. One nasty report was of a fellow getting his fingers stuck in a super heavy sound door as it was closing.
STC is very misleading and generally irrelevant anymore. Good for an office space or similar.
No automatic door closer needed. They're not the easiest doors to slam, but certainly if someone does, then you will lose whatever is caught between the slab and the jamb when it closes. I can't imagine a finger would hold up to a slammed isolation door.
An auto closer would have more of a risk of getting fingers stuck, in my opinion. Otherwise only close the door when it's clear to close. Auto closers, some of them at least, will keep trying to close regardless of push back.
Kind of like an old school garage door that will trap you under a door.
How about a threshold? Is one required for your door to operate correctly? I'll be installing some type of hard engineered flooring above my plywood sub-floor. Likely an engineered hardwood or luxury vinyl plank type flooring. Will that provide a sufficient seal on the bottom or will a threshold still be required?
We ship an acoustic threshold with each door since we used it in testing, but that's up to you on whether you want to use it. It's installed after the fact, so you can install it later if you feel you need it. It's valuable for redundancy.
The automatic door bottom installed in the slab will seal against your flooring with no problem. The acoustic threshold provides a second seal to the side of the slab, which also creates an air space between the seal of the automatic door bottom and the acoustic threshold.
Wonderful. That makes it easy.
Regarding the floor and sub-floor. The dimensions I gave previously were to the sub-floor. Does the thickness of the finish floor need to be factored into the door dimensions?
Only if you have an unusually thick floor. Our 80" door is 81-1/4" with jamb, seals, and space beneath for everything to function. Yours would ultimately be 80-1/4". So you will have 3/4" for your finish floor and an extra 1/8" on top.
We would recommend you install the door after the flooring is installed or use a spacer equal to the thickness of your flooring when installing the jambs.
This way the space from the bottom of the jamb to the bottom of the slab remains the same.
Thanks for all your help Eric. I'm going to chat with my wife (she's providing all of the aesthetic expertise on this project, haha) and make a call regarding paint grade versus stain grade. I'm going to place an order today. Thanks again!
Sounds good. When in doubt, just order the stain grade. The door itself won't really be any different, you'll just end up with a slab that has less wood variation in it.
All of our doors are solid wood, whether paint or stain grade.
Oh... Good point! I'd only paint the door if the wood clashed with the flooring (wood appearance) or the wood veneer on my acoustic treatments.
Thanks Eric!
You are welcome. Let us know if you have any more questions at all. We are happy to help.
I just went through my old thread, what a trip. I ordered an Isodoor and had a very similar experience on the phone with them as you.
Glad to hear of them out in the wild. You’re satisfied with the performance of the door and its seals then?
@beans-on-toast
I just re-read my posts from the last day and thought I came off a little combative towards you in one response. Not my intent. Sorry if it came across that way.
I just re-read my posts from the last day and thought I came off a little combative towards you in one response. Not my intent. Sorry if it came across that way.
Thanks for being so considerate, no offence was taken.
Spending money is always stressful.
For a tall guy, shortening the door by an inch isn’t ideal. By now, i’m sure that you’ve mastered the art of ducking.
It’s not short at all is the funny thing. I cruise through the rough opening without thinking about it. Not sure how the height came down. Lots of building guides online suggested using nominal 12” lumber held against the double top plates for door headers. In retrospect I should have used 10” instead. Oh well. Better isolation this way
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