My reliable source confirmed something....

[mystic38]

IMO..

If one report of my aunts sons gardeners wifes mechanic son in law heard it from the hairdresser of the daughter of the accountants part time cleaner gets posted on TB it becomes an internet fact and gets a life of its own... Then, if two thousand people read it, its still bogus, no matter how many times it gets repeated.

I would personally not believe a single thing a rep told me... and, having been on both sides of restructuring programs over the years I will state flat out that the reps are NOT in the loop of management decisions at any company. They get informed after the fact and typically are as ill informed as the general public...

 

[ctrotier]

just ask George Zip...

Yeah, I know I'm late to the game, but that was well played.

 

[wvbass]

Has anyone been on SWR's website lately? Most of the products aren't on their anymore. A couple golight cabs, headlights, a couple combos.

Interesting. The Headlite is still on their homepage, but the link is broken.

 

[soitainly]

I just noticed that a lot of these "rumors" are coming from reps. From what I know about the product rep business, it can be a pretty cutthroat and often shady affair. If a rep firm is dropping a line and taking up a new one, they will talk down the old one. If an individual rep is changing firms, they will talk down the old products and start 'pre-selling" the new companies lines.

There are all kinds of non disclosure/non competitive contracts both between manufacturers and rep firms, and between the firms and their individual reps. But, it's only human nature to be thinking ahead if you are changing product lines. From what Iv'e seen, the unscrupulous reps will say anything to make a sale. Even someone you know and trust is easily tempted to say whatever is necessary to promote their newest line.

I don't want to badmouth anyone's friends here, but I just take any thing a rep says with a very skeptical ear.

 

[alaskaleftybass]

Possible if you look at FMIC/Fender's past history with brands they aquire.

The Fender/SUNN connection. 1985 Bill Schultz gets Fender but no factories. Fender Japan makes product till the Corona, CA factory is completed. Fender still has no major manufacturing facility for it's amp line. Enter SUNN which FMIC purchased. Fender gets a facility already in place to build amps under the Fender name. No one will know if FMIC ever seriously planned to give SUNN new blood but Fender amps lived on through the old SUNN factory.

The Guild / Tacoma connection. FMIC gets Guild in 1995 and limps along with the line which was really suffering from poor sales when they were bought. Basically Guild is used to "teach" Fender Corona how to build acoustic guitars. In 2001 all Guild production moves to Corona. 2004 FMIC buys Tacoma. A company with wood sources and a manufacturing facility in place. Tacoma goes bye bye but Guild lives on. Guild being a more recognized brand. FMIC buys KMC and moves Guild there to focus on quality US made acoustics and Fender has learned how to make acoustic guitars.

The Fender/SWR connection. Who knows why they bought SWR? IMO SWR was dead the day Steve Rabe left. Maybe FMIC realized that and decided to put them on hold rather them continue with new designs. I still love the SWR sound but only the early stuff. Sad to see them go though.

The Fender/Genz Benz connection. This is just my .02 as all we know is Jeff is now doing R&D for Fender and Fender is handling GB customer service. I can confirm from a very reliable source that GB no longer operates their independent facility in Scottsdale, AZ. Make of that what you will.

OK Fender has tube bass amps covered totally with the new 100T and 300T. Those who want "big iron" with the Fender name on it are covered. Entry level stuff is covered by the Rumble line which IMO is decent but not what I'd call "pro" level stuff.

What Fender does not have and has no experience in, is a line of modern pro level micro class D amps. Fender has to see that class D isn't going away and they have no current line to offer. To me it makes more sense from a cost standpoint to look within your current list of companies and see who has experience in pro class D and has a manufacturing facility in place to produce them. Genz Benz fits the bill and I think it would be cheaper than Fender starting from scratch. I would not be surprised to see the GB line and name fade away only to be replaced with Fender class D branded amps. Or Fender "learns" from GB and then GB goes the way of other companies that FMIC has swallowed up.

Look at the history. Fender has ALWAYS done what's best for Fender. That will never change. Any companies that FMIC buys will be part of a plan that makes sure that the Fender brand is the one that benefits in the end.

Keep Low

AMEN brother. I really despise Fender now because I loved Sunn amps, Fender in all their wisdom absorbed them then buried them. Fender is riding off the laurels of their basses and guitars. Their Rumble line is a joke and if you read reviews on their tube bass amps, there are hardly any reviews and usually from people who are raving over their first "pro" amp.

I hope GB and SWR can continue on. I grieve the loss of Sunn and hope one day it will resurrect like Acoustic Control Corp did.

 

[low2groove]

I could ramble on for several pages about the low points now and then with the Fender people.

It's late, I'm tired and I'll leave it to say that anything they make someone else can do it better.
It's proven all the time, and that's not even including all the people that change out so much of a fender Bass that it's not even a fender anymore.
Thanks to all the companies that make better gear to fit in the old tired fender stuff.
I was never a fan of Sunn amps, or especially speakers, lifeless sound to me.

Now SWR I always loved for 20 years, though I play other gear these days.
I'm sure fender will destroy that awesome brand too.

 

[Korladis]

I'm the opposite. I love Sunns, but have never liked any SWR product I've played through.

 

[1n3]

You're assuming Fender uses independent reps?

I just noticed that a lot of these "rumors" are coming from reps. From what I know about the product rep business, it can be a pretty cutthroat and often shady affair. If a rep firm is dropping a line and taking up a new one, they will talk down the old one. If an individual rep is changing firms, they will talk down the old products and start 'pre-selling" the new companies lines.

There are all kinds of non disclosure/non competitive contracts both between manufacturers and rep firms, and between the firms and their individual reps. But, it's only human nature to be thinking ahead if you are changing product lines. From what Iv'e seen, the unscrupulous reps will say anything to make a sale. Even someone you know and trust is easily tempted to say whatever is necessary to promote their newest line.

I don't want to badmouth anyone's friends here, but I just take any thing a rep says with a very skeptical ear.

 

[sprag]

If Fender feels like buying up the competition to put them out of business, then oh well that is how it works.

Great. So in the future when shopping for an amp we'll only need to decide between sml med and lge

 

[One Drop]

Great. So in the future when shopping for an amp we'll only need to decide between sml med and lge

No, current general marketing practice will make sure you can buy twenty varieties of each size that are for all practical use identical in all but name.

 

[Korladis]

That is especially true with Fender, at least for their instruments.

 

[One Drop]

That is especially true with Fender, at least for their instruments.

It's what we want from Fender, so they deliver.

 

[One Drop]

AMEN brother. I really despise Fender now because I loved Sunn amps, Fender in all their wisdom absorbed them then buried them. Fender is riding off the laurels of their basses and guitars. Their Rumble line is a joke and if you read reviews on their tube bass amps, there are hardly any reviews and usually from people who are raving over their first "pro" amp.

I hope GB and SWR can continue on. I grieve the loss of Sunn and hope one day it will resurrect like Acoustic Control Corp did.

I think you are out of line regarding the new tube amps. They are one of the best designed and practical great sounding all tube heads to come down the pipeline from any manufacturer in years, and lots of pros are using them. <no idea how many are endorsers but they seem to finding favour at various levels in the industry.

My personal opinion is that they sound incredible and have a superb feature set. If I didn't own and love my SVT and had to shop for a new tube head I'd be hard pressed to make a decision.

Bash Fender for some things, the surely deserve it, but give credit where it is due.

 

[Landy67]

Him: Yeah, as far as i know the remaining Genz stock is on Amazon with some good discounts.

I'm not seeing any good discounts on Amazon. Can you find me a deal on a Focus 115 and a streamliner carry bag? All I can find is the same price as my local dealer.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

It's what we want from Fender, so they deliver.

They've missed the boat on providing some slightly diverse but fairly obvious products like a no frills, regular production model American Standard A-neck P Bass.

 

[Troph]

It looks as if in some years, all good musical instruments will come from one or two major companies. Capitalism works for america, but corporatocracy doesn't. Eventually all manufacturing money will end in fewer pockets leaving the little and middle guys out of the market. Goverment should prevent that from happenning, but at this point, goverment and corporations are almost the same thing in the U.S.

Any competent economist will tell you that companies failing and getting swallowed by other companies is part of the "creative destruction" force in capitalism, which is critical to its basic function. Any attempt to block this process just blocks the basic engine of change.

There is no question that when a company fails it is sad. But that's not even what happened here. One company bought another company, and possibly might discontinue its product line in order to incorporate its assets into the main product lines. There is no question that whenever there is change like this there can be local inefficiencies (buildings vacated, jobs temporarily lost, brands disappearing, etc) which seem deplorable. Our gut reaction is to stop it. But our gut reaction is wrong. What's harder to see is that, over time, such changes on average produce improvement, measurable by higher overall output and productivity, as the changed landscape adapts and becomes more efficient than before, with better products at more competitive prices. Without these changes, we get stagnation.

As for the claim that "soon there will only be a few companies left", can you seriously sit there and say that there is not enough competition in the bass amplification marketplace? I would submit that we have never lived in a time of more choices!

Might this be a bad move by FMIC? Possibly, sure. But did they make this purchase in a cynical attempt to quash the competition so that they could take all of the profits away from those poor, struggling smaller manufacturers? Of course not! The bass amplification marketplace is highly competitive, and FMIC is not exactly the market leader there. A much more likely scenario here is that FMIC simply saw this acquisition as something that would help them offer better products and gain market share and profits. Whether they succeed or not is a different question.

In any case, we're a long, long way from having to invoke the Sherman Antitrust Act. It's kind of sad that anyone would think we're getting close...

 

[JTE]

AMEN brother. I really despise Fender now because I loved Sunn amps, Fender in all their wisdom absorbed them then buried them.

Except that Sunn was essentially gone already when FMIC bought them. They just weren't there, and hadn't been for a long time. Fender Musical Instruments bought the rights to the name, and the real estate. That allowed them to make amps because FMIC got no real estate when they bought Fender from CBS.

So, they didn't just absorb them and bury them, they bought a corpse and buried it after settling the estate.

John

 

[svtb15]

I like Fender products.. I like "some" of their basses...
I like their flatwound strings...
I do not like that they consumed and seemed to have cut off Genz Benz from the world..or the way they have handled it since NAMM. Its as if Genz vaporized... Even though they have not....

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

The hi-tech industry is full of companies swallowing each other. One company buys another for its technology and/or technical expertise. Then two months later the buyer renames the acquired company's product line and acts as if the acquired products were always part of its own. As they say, history is always rewritten by the victorious.

 

[JimmyM]

Great. So in the future when shopping for an amp we'll only need to decide between sml med and lge

Yes, it is a big monopoly with Fender being the only company in the world selling basses and amps.