1. Please take 30 seconds to register your free account to remove most ads, post topics, make friends, earn reward points at our store, and more!  

My vocals through my bass rig???

Discussion in 'Live Sound [BG]' started by Adam Bomb, Dec 13, 2011.


  1. Adam Bomb

    Adam Bomb

    Mar 26, 2008
    Bezerkely, CA
    Hi:

    I'm in a 4-piece: two guitars and the rhythm section. All of us have mics but the drummer. One of the guitarists does most of the heavy lifting vocally, with me a close second. The other guitarist does background only.

    The p.a. is supposed to be one of those Bose towers. I say "supposed to be" because it does not seem to be up to the job.

    The Bose has two inputs: one mic, one instrument. Lead vocalist goes into the Mic In and sounds fine. Other guitarist and I go into a small Mackie - kind of like this one's grandfather. (I've had it for maybe 20 years.) Then from the mixer into the Instrument In on the Bose. OK.

    We get signal and some volume. But not nearly enough. Not without distortion and/or feedback. Recently I read the manual for the Mackie cover to cover (still had it - packrat ftw) and I have looked at the specs of the Bose online. After tweaking and tweaking, it is looking like what we are expecting of a single tower is unrealistic. This is consistent with what I've read about this system here on TB. For a single singer-songwriter in a coffee shop, this would be an ideal solution. For a 4-piece rock band (think Dead meet Stones) not so much.

    Let's assume for now that playing softly enough so that the vocals sit well in the mix is not an option.

    My rehearsal space bass rig is kind of janky: P-bass into my pedal board into a GK MB200 micro head, which I use as a pre only. I run the GK's Line Out into a QSC GX3 power amp, and from there into my mismatched cabs: an Acoustic 115 and an Avatar B210 on top. It sounds great, probably because I biamp. (Lows to the 115; *not* because I think that 15s go lower but because it is the one with the least sentimental value.)

    All of that background to say this: After last night's rehearsal I am ready to try something else. And what I think I want to try is from my mic into a small mixer into the Aux In of my GK head.

    The reason I think this might work is the biamping. Only the Avatar will have to deal with my vox, and that is not the cab that is doing the heavy-duty bass work.

    Is anybody else doing this?

    I am wanting the smallest, least expensive mixer that has an XLR mic in. Like maybe this one. I realize that Behringer has a very bad rep in the bass amp realm but: (1) it seems to have a better rep in other areas, and (2) I'm not trying to accomplish much more than be audible at rehearsals. We do usually provide the p.a. at our gigs, but us buying a second tower is not a conversation I am ready to start.

    Probably there's nothing to do but try it. But has anybody tried this before? Is this a "thing"?

    --Bomb :bassist:
     
  2. Hi.

    I did try something like that when I was young. Try it, You'll soon find out why it isn't a popular approach ;).

    I have also ran vocals through tube combo amps intended for guitar, and that works a lot better. Plus it looks cool as hell :).

    Regards
    Sam
     
  3. Passinwind

    Passinwind I know nothing. Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    Hey Adam,

    Yep, I've done something like that for rehearsal with stellar results. Mic-->Ashly channel strip-->Lexicon 'verb-->Aux in (post-bass EQ)-->Power Amp--> Thunderchild cab. I could get by using this for FOH on some of my duo gigs, no problem. ;)

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Xierion

    Xierion

    Mar 31, 2009
    I've done it before in a few of my bands practice sessions. not the best sounding, but good enough for vocals to be heard when the bands in full swing:bassist:.

    What we have is:

    SM58 -> MAudio FastTrack (for preamp) -> Aux in on Shuttle 9 -> Ashdown Mag 410.

    Only thing to be careful of is feedback because we don't have a 31 bander to ring out, but our vocalist knows to yank the mic cable if the squealing starts:D.
     
  5. fokof

    fokof One day ,I'll be in the future

    Mar 16, 2007
    Here
    I do it all the time.

    I use a RCF ART310a/902a as a bass monitor.
     
  6. Adam Bomb

    Adam Bomb

    Mar 26, 2008
    Bezerkely, CA
    Thanks all! This is very encouraging.

    Early results on this end are positive as well. Today I went out and got me the second-smallest mixer GC carries. They were out of the Behringer.

    My gig rig is a pair of GK MB210 combos. Came home and tried it through one of them. So it was Beta 58 mic => tiny mixer => Aux In of the GK combo. I also plugged in a bass and played a little to check out the relative levels.

    It sounded great. :bassist:

    Still some questions: How will it sound at gig volumes, through my rehearsal space rig, etc. And, absolutely, feedback will be an issue. But if I found a $50 improvement to the current situation it is worth it to me.

    Monday I get to test it out at full volume through my biamping rehearsal rig. I am now grateful that almost all of my cabs have tweeters. If I had that new Avatar 3-way cab instead of the 210, it would be even better. But, as my drummer loves to say, Good enough for rock and roll. :bassist:

    Thanks again guys.

    --Bomb :bassist:
     
  7. Hi.

    LOL guys :D.

    So You would describe those rigs to be the eqvivalent of the OP's rig in terms of bass + vocal performance?

    Or even the price?

    With that line of thinking, I do sing through my larger bass rig on every rehearsal and on every gig.

    True, I don't use the SVTDI on vocals, but the rest of the signal chain is pretty much identical ;).

    Regards
    Sam
     
  8. fokof

    fokof One day ,I'll be in the future

    Mar 16, 2007
    Here
    The guy is asking if anybody passes his vocals through his bass monitor.

    Yes I do.

    My bass monitor happens to be a small PA. ;)
     
  9. walterw

    walterw Supportive Fender Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 20, 2009
    alpha-music.com
    there you go.

    you can run vocals through your bass rig; you can also drive a car with your knees.
     
  10. Xierion

    Xierion

    Mar 31, 2009
    OP is asking if you can, not if you should.

    I only do it for practice/rehearsals. I would never do it for a gig.
     
  11. Foamy

    Foamy

    Jun 26, 2006
    Sac Area
    I think "should" is implied.
    As in, 'Can I play my bass though my guitar amplifier?'

    If you just answered "yes", that would be a total Microsoft answer - technically correct, but completely useless.
     
  12. Passinwind

    Passinwind I know nothing. Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    Hey Sam,

    If you're gonna put words in my mouth, it'll probably sound better on ProSoundWeb than on a bass forum! :p
     
  13. Adam Bomb

    Adam Bomb

    Mar 26, 2008
    Bezerkely, CA
    Tried it out at rehearsal tonight. Sounded great, by all accounts. Two or three moments of feedback as I find the sweet spot on the limited EQ of my tiny mixer. But unanimous view was that my vox sounded better going into a tiny mixer and coming out of my bass rig than they sounded going into a larger mixer and coming out of the Bose tower.

    Can't explain it any more than I can deny the results.

    --Bomb :bassist:
     
  14. Stumbo

    Stumbo Wherever you go, there you are. Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 11, 2008
    Song Surgeon slow downer. https://tinyurl.com/y5dcuqjg
    Use to be in a band where the lead singer sang through an Acoustic 150 and a 6x10 guitar cab. He played a bit of rhythm guitar through it and it was plenty loud for the his vocals(we weren't a loud band by any means) and in the gyms and such we played in (natural echo) it filled the venue fine and sounded good enough.

    I just wish we had the sense enough to by the guy a second cab.:atoz:

    Oh.. the other guys sang through their own amps as well.
     
  15. Hey if you like it, go for it. I would use a dedicated PA with proper Eq for voices but in the music world anything goes.
     
  16. walterw

    walterw Supportive Fender Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 20, 2009
    alpha-music.com
    that's more an indictment of that bose stuff than anything else.
     
  17. Hi.

    I wouldn't dream of rying to put words in Your mouth sir, regardless of the forum, I was just pointing out the huge difference between our bass/vocal rigs against what the OP has.

    On the ProSoundWeb the OP's question might have been worded a bit differently, I'd guess. Perhaps something along these lines...

    There's this bassplayer who hangs out at chatbass or something like that when he should be practising, and he's been convinced that the pro players who also hang out at chatbass prefer PA support.

    He has demanded to be able to use our Fender Passport PA in order to "cut through the mix", whatever that may mean.

    Would it be all right to let him use our PA for gigs?


    :bag:


    OP, good for You if it works, but coaxing generally passable vocals out of heavily pre-voiced cabs is a PITA in the long run.

    Regards
    Sam
     
  18. Passinwind

    Passinwind I know nothing. Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    Yeah, I know. Just fooling around here, not feeling any animosity. ;)
     
  19. Adam Bomb

    Adam Bomb

    Mar 26, 2008
    Bezerkely, CA
    LOOL!

    --Bomb :bassist:
     
  20. Adam Bomb

    Adam Bomb

    Mar 26, 2008
    Bezerkely, CA
    In the interest of full disclosure, I need to say that I am putting together a small PA for my vox. My bass rig exceeded all expectations but still could have been better (i.e., louder more easily), and I was concerned about hurting it. Still nice to know though that if, say, my PA dies at a gig, I can MacGuyver together a bass rig PA.

    --Bomb :bassist:
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.