myth-busting: Resonance is not synonymous with Vibration

[chadds]

The article quoted states that an acoustic instrument is designed to be excited by the string vibration to make sound and the electric body is to support the vibration for the pickups to get the most of the vibration. The less interaction the better he states. He has a bias there. While that is a logical observation and if that's what you wanted as the primary effect than he's correct. However these are musical instruments used in many different environments and not lab instruments.

One motive was to eliminate feedback since amplification introduced the possibility of feedback. The musicians among us early humans began to discover that these electric guitars and basses responded to touch like other acoustic instruments. Musicians found that the variances in materials and design could give a more or less pleasing effect that responded favorably to their touch. These folks began to seek out certain builds or ages of builds and spread the lore about them.

So we like the differences in physical characteristics that we define to name a few as "resonance", rigidity, brightness, darkness. These we've attributed to body materials, neck materials, species of woods, dryness, oiliness, how they are cut, laminated or not, added reinforcement within necks, methods of neck/body joining, finishes, and how the connecting points of the string, enhance or detract from the overall effect.

Now later humans who design and build these instruments work around recipes of these qualities to get the musicians the instruments they want. We like these variances.

 

[James Collins]

Killed_by_Death stated numerous times he's NOT talking about acoustical instruments. Hollow and semi hollow bodies are considered acoustic in nature. Only solid bodies would be source material for this thread. Headless basses and the original Les Paul log (although not a bass) would qualify. Hope this helps.

I don't think either of you know what resonance is.

 

[Dave Hill]

I know some builders use chambered bodies to “increase resonance”. Whether this practice and/or the semantics are incorrect, I dunno. If we are relating resonance to dead spots, ALL the basses I’ve played have them; both boat anchors and featherweights.

 

[rzero]

I know some builders use chambered bodies to “increase resonance”. Whether this practice and/or the semantics are incorrect, I dunno. If we are relating resonance to dead spots, ALL the basses I’ve played have them; both boat anchors and featherweights.

Do these builders also use high mass bridges?

 

[Honkey tonk]

Behind the bridge is where all the magic happens , strum an acoustic getar then lay your hand behind the bridge
Literally Not much going on behind most basses behind the bridge

 

[-Asdfgh-]

The article quoted states that an acoustic instrument is designed to be excited by the string vibration to make sound and the electric body is to support the vibration for the pickups to get the most of the vibration. The less interaction the better he states. He has a bias there. While that is a logical observation and if that's what you wanted as the primary effect than he's correct. However these are musical instruments used in many different environments and not lab instruments.

One motive was to eliminate feedback since amplification introduced the possibility of feedback. The musicians among us early humans began to discover that these electric guitars and basses responded to touch like other acoustic instruments. Musicians found that the variances in materials and design could give a more or less pleasing effect that responded favorably to their touch. These folks began to seek out certain builds or ages of builds and spread the lore about them.

So we like the differences in physical characteristics that we define to name a few as "resonance", rigidity, brightness, darkness. These we've attributed to body materials, neck materials, species of woods, dryness, oiliness, how they are cut, laminated or not, added reinforcement within necks, methods of neck/body joining, finishes, and how the connecting points of the string, enhance or detract from the overall effect.

Now later humans who design and build these instruments work around recipes of these qualities to get the musicians the instruments they want. We like these variances.

For most truly solid-body electric instruments using magnetic pickups those variances in the body are pretty much inaudible except where there is a strong resonance (dead spot). You can make a guitar from concrete, wood, perspex, or a lattice of carboard impregnated with resin and in general people can't tell the difference.

One of the thing that amuses me are those that say the body of an electric has great 'resonance' because you can hear it well acoustically. If you actually try to excite a solid body instrument without strings on with the fraction of a Watt that enters the body you won't be able to hear anything! In fact that 'great acoustic sounding solid body instrument' is more likely to simply be sufficiently stiff that there is less interaction between the strings and body, and that's not likely down to the wood. What you actually hear are the strings vibrating. It's easily demonstrable (with the right kit), and has been done so many times (see YouTube).

 

[-Asdfgh-]

a Pbass sounds like a p bass because of the subtle ways sustain is diminished through body/neck resonance. that is timbre. an electric instrument is an acoustic instrument no matter how you slice it.

Many bases use the same body shape and neck joint yet different pickups and sound different. I had a Telecaster Bass (P Bass shape) with an MM in it, and that pickup sounded like an MM and it didn't sound like a P Bass in particular. In the neck was a humbucker. That didn't sound like a P Bass either.

There are experiments out there where people take a through neck, check sustain, cut it in half and reglue it, and also screw part of it to a 'body'. It doesn't seem to make any difference to sustain or sound provided it isn't loose.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Behind the bridge is where all the magic happens , strum an acoustic getar then lay your hand behind the bridge
Literally Not much going on behind most basses behind the bridge

 

[-Asdfgh-]

For most truly solid-body electric instruments using magnetic pickups those variances in the body are pretty much inaudible except where there is a strong resonance (dead spot). You can make a guitar from concrete, wood, perspex, or a lattice of carboard impregnated with resin and in general people can't tell the difference.

One of the thing that amuses me are those that say the body of an electric has great 'resonance' because you can hear it well acoustically. If you actually try to excite a solid body instrument without strings on with the fraction of a Watt that enters the body you won't be able to hear anything! In fact that 'great acoustic sounding solid body instrument' is more likely to simply be sufficiently stiff that there is less interaction between the strings and body, and that's not likely down to the wood. What you actually hear are the strings vibrating. It's easily demonstrable (with the right kit), and has been done so many times (see YouTube).

When I say 'not likely down to the wood' I mean that most woods used for guitars are already pretty stiff as balsa isn't much used. If you want a guitar with a solid body guitar with a lively acoustic sound you might be best off with one that is the stiffest you can get, which would probably make plywood the best tonewood.

 

[chadds]

For most truly solid-body electric instruments using magnetic pickups those variances in the body are pretty much inaudible except where there is a strong resonance (dead spot). You can make a guitar from concrete, wood, perspex, or a lattice of carboard impregnated with resin and in general people can't tell the difference.

One of the thing that amuses me are those that say the body of an electric has great 'resonance' because you can hear it well acoustically. If you actually try to excite a solid body instrument without strings on with the fraction of a Watt that enters the body you won't be able to hear anything! In fact that 'great acoustic sounding solid body instrument' is more likely to simply be sufficiently stiff that there is less interaction between the strings and body, and that's not likely down to the wood. What you actually hear are the strings vibrating. It's easily demonstrable (with the right kit), and has been done so many times (see YouTube).

I was hoping not to bring up a dead horse to beat.

I was describing the difference between the science of electric instruments and the coexisting experience of the pleasing note producing effects of the different aspects of construction.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

I was hoping not to bring up a dead horse to beat.

I was describing the difference between the science of electric instruments and the coexisting experience of the pleasing note producing effects of the different aspects of construction.

It pretty much comes down to pickups and choice of hardware and whether it looks pretty or not!

 

[bobdabilder]

Ibtl

 

[Turnaround]

The less the instrument resonates, the better for the sound coming out of the pickups. It's not a matter of resonating well or poorly.

This is only true if you want a lot of sustain and you don't want the instrument itself to contribute to the tone. It is the resonance of the instrument as a whole that affects how the string vibrates and that of course has an effect on tone. So in my book resonance is good as long as it doesn't spike noticeably at specific frequencies. To me, a bass with little resonance sounds sterile and lifeless. Some people seem to like that sound - I don't.

 

[BassBrass]

The less the instrument resonates, the better for the sound coming out of the pickups. It's not a matter of resonating well or poorly.

I agree and have been enjoying playing a bass with carbon neck dense body and EMG's... but what about the Dan Electro longhorn? That thing totally destroys the theory. (kidding) But it is the paradox bass, it shouldn't have such a great mid "resonance" And solid lows. Epiphone Jack Casady too...a resonant bass that influences positively the tone of an electric bass..but at least the JC has weight and 34" scale, the Dan Electro doesn't, it has cloth tape.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

I agree and have been enjoying playing a bass with carbon neck dense body and EMG's... but what about the Dan Electro longhorn? That thing totally destroys the theory. (kidding) But it is the paradox bass, it shouldn't have such a great mid "resonance" And solid lows. Epiphone Jack Casady too...a resonant bass that influences positively the tone of an electric bass..but at least the JC has weight and 34" scale, the Dan Electro doesn't, it has cloth tape.

The Casady has a centre block, so in many ways a solid body with decoration, surely?

 

[chadds]

It pretty much comes down to pickups and choice of hardware and whether it looks pretty or not!

It's a belief that it doesn't matter. I accept that. I live my life with science and experience.

In 1970 I sat in a room with a Gibson ES an SG and a Les Paul all about 1965 vintage. Same amp same player. Why don't they sound the same? There is a never an answer. Put Stat pickups on a Tele. Does is sound like a Strat?
Does a Strat with humbuckings sound like a Les Paul?

The thing we know is people believe different things. We do know that people hear differently. Even if I have three identical basses why do they sound different? Why in GS with the choice of ten identical P basses did some musician pick one? There is more going on than just Youtube and lab coats.

So many of us play processed signals and amplification with high THD and possibly moderately okay cabs. I had some one apologize after hearing there is a lot to hear if your signal path is clean.

I don't play any basses that don't do it for me so it's really possible that of your choices the pickups and hardware are the most prominent.

So I respect everyone's beliefs. What you can't know is what someone else hears.

I'm done. This is off topic.

 

[Pedullist]

If there's cognitive dissonance, there might be cognitive resonance? ;-)

 

[Killed_by_Death]

I don't think either of you know what resonance is.

I'm certain that you think any vibration is resonance.
Resonance also means different things in different situations.

In Electronics, the Resonant Frequency is where the Capacitance & Inductance are matched in a way that produces the most signal, hence the Resonant Peak:

It's counterintuitive with an electric bass, where an instrument vibrating at its resonant frequency is actually soaking up energy from the string vibration & dampening the output.
Maybe we get lucky & the instrument's resonant frequency is outside the range of the notes it produces!

resonance is good as long as it doesn't spike noticeably at specific frequencies

You're confounding Resonance & Vibration, if it's resonating it's doing the opposite of spiking.

some builders use chambered bodies to “increase resonance”. Whether this practice and/or the semantics are incorrect, I dunno.

It's all too often that the ad-copy for a piece of gear is 'hyped up' with incorrect assertions.
Just last week I was reading a description for an instrument with Nordstrand Big Split pickups where the author wrote that the pickups are 'coil-tappable'.

There's two things incorrect about that, firstly: we don't coil-'tap' humbuckers, we coil-split them
This is a coil-tap:

It's done with single-coils, where you TAP into the center of the coil. This is not applicable to humbuckers.

Secondly: You cannot coil-split a split-coil humbucker like the Big Split, because then only half the strings would produce a signal

 

[HaphAsSard]

The Casady has a centre block, so in many ways a solid body with decoration, surely?

The centre block in the Epiphone Casady bass reduces the internal volume, taming feedback, and certainly stiffens the structure but, unlike in many semis, is not in contact with the top (or at least it isn't in the pickup area, but it might behind the bridge - wasn't able to clarify that point in a past thread discussing its innards).

 

[-Asdfgh-]

The centre block in the Epiphone Casady bass reduces the internal volume, taming feedback, and certainly stiffens the structure but, unlike in many semis, is not in contact with the top (or at least it isn't in the pickup area, but it might behind the bridge - wasn't able to clarify that point in a past thread discussing its innards).

I had assumed it was a centre block the full length.