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narrowed down to mtd, sadowsky, lakland

#21
If you like a JB tone, do yourself a favor and save a lot of money and get one of those Carvin SB5000's. You can even get it customized and still come in under thousands less. Build time is also less than others. If you want to spend money on a 'Name' then by all means spend the extra 1 to 2k for that name.
 
#22
KJung said:
Again, as one who has owned and gigged extensively all three of the options the OP is considering, they are all 'top notch', and they all sound completely, utterly, totally different. IMO, not a 'good versus bad' thing, but rather a tonal preference. That Lakland 55-94 super fat, warm, top end relaxed, mid present punch is VERY nice. The bite and grind of the Sadowsky take on a modern J tone has become classic (through the zillions of recordings by Will Lee, Michael Rhodes, etc.) through the years, and the massive deep low end and 8K+ zing of the MTD wenge models (and other MTD wood combinations) have come to represent that modern Gospel tone (Gouche and Norm Stockton).

All first rate, and all will give the OP a VERY different playing experience.
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Thanks. I really appreciate your opinions. I think they are very helpful!
I really dont know a lot about the pick ups like J/MM, JJ etc. What do they mean?. Can you explain it simply if you dont mind?
 
#23
phillybass101 said:
If you like a JB tone, do yourself a favor and save a lot of money and get one of those Carvin SB5000's. You can even get it customized and still come in under thousands less. Build time is also less than others. If you want to spend money on a 'Name' then by all means spend the extra 1 to 2k for that name.
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How is carvin sb5000 different from the ones listed above?
 
#24
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johnbkim93 said:
Thanks. I really appreciate your opinions. I think they are very helpful!
I really dont know a lot about the pick ups like J/MM, JJ etc. What do they mean?. Can you explain it simply if you dont mind?
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They represent the 'classic' pickup configurations, along with combinations of those classic configurations:

JJ Two Jazz bass pickups in J bass position (which is either 60's or 70's...the 70's Fender J moved the bridge pickup just slightly closer to the bridge, given it a bit more upper midrange than the 60's position instruments. So, the Sadowsky MV and RV have 60's position JJ, and the UV has 70's position JJ

P P Bass... usually the later 'spit coil' offset design.

MM... Music Man... the classic MusicMan 'double single coil sort of big soapbar in that Music Man 'sweet spot'.

So, a PJ, has a P pickup in the neck position, and a J pickup in (typically) 60's J position. The Lakland you are considering has a J pickup in the neck position and a MM type pickup in the bridge position (although the MM pickup in the Lakland is not in true MM location). The MTD bass is basically two modern, active custom soapbar pickups, in 'kind of' J position (although Mike is now producing a true 'JJ' model)
 
#25
johnbkim93 said:
How is carvin sb5000 different from the ones listed above?
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I've spend a bit of time with the Carvin. Pretty nice. Very 'thin/modern' neck profile, and a quite accurate 'Fender' J tone. Pretty nice bass for the money. The preamp was a bit 'rough sounding' IMO, but very nice instrument for those looking for an active J style on a budget, and want it to sound reasonably 'Fender-like' (compared, for example, to the more unique J take of the Sadowsky voicing).
 
#26
johnbkim93 said:
Thanks. I really appreciate your opinions. I think they are very helpful!
I really dont know a lot about the pick ups like J/MM, JJ etc. What do they mean?. Can you explain it simply if you dont mind?
Click to expand...

You should probably really research this before proceeding, as it basically determines the sound that you get.

J/MM means a Jazz pickup in the neck and a MusicMan at the bridge.

J/J is a pair of Jazz pickups.

MTD probably uses soapbar humbuckers.

My favorite is J/MM as you can get tons of sounds, it's very versatile because of the coil switching options on the humbucker. You can cop most any sound with this setup.

Soapbars are also fantastic, as long as you have some switching options wired in. You can also get most any sound with this, depending on the switching options you have.

With a J/J you pretty much get..Jazz bass. Bright, mid scooped, somewhat thin sounding compared to the other two.

It just depends on what you want to do.
 
#27
This is 100% right, IMO.
The Sadowsky ash/maple MV5JJ, with their single coil pickups is 100% my all time fave go to bass.

I've had Lakland J basses; no complaints, but, their not as good for me as my Sadowsky.

I had a very, very nice MTD. For 1 gig. 100% fail for me, literally disappearing in the mix. Same thing with the Sadowsky Modern. 1 gig and gone. Neither made it thru the first set before I switched to the Sadowsky MV5 again.


KJung said:
Why would you think that a passive tone control on a bass is a 'con'. It is just the classic passive tone control found on virtually all P and J inspired basses. I actually wouldn't really want a bass without one.

And yes, Sadowsky bass pickups seemed to be wound to work wonderfully with the Sadowsky pre, and the basses aren't really voiced for 'everyday passive' operation (although they still sound fine).

To the OP, those three basses sound so MASSIVELY different, that IMO you need to experience the general difference between a super modern sounding soapbar loaded bass versus an active J versus a more 'Bart loaded J modification' before you throw down your money. There should be examples of these general class of basses at most Guitar Centers so you can at least get a feel for these very different tonalities.

That being said, if you are leaning toward a 'modern J' tone, it is hard to beat a Sadowsky Metro J. I very much like the unique MV models, which are ash/maple (like a 70's J), but yet have 60's pickup position for a bit more punch and grunt. VERY nice all around performer IMO, and a pretty safe bet for what you want to do.

Edit: Sadowsky uses 'fixed pricing', so the Metro's cost the same no matter where you buy them. You might consider buying a Metro MV directly from the Sadowsky shop. You get a no questions asked 7 day return policy (as long as you don't remove the plastic protection film, etc.). That is a very nice, no risk (other than some shipping cost) to try a Sadowsky and see if it is what you want.
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#28
For the price of a new Sadowsky Metro, you could get a Carvin SB5000 and a new rig as well. At that point, you'd be flexible enough with your sound options to do just about anything you want. And the SB5000 is a fun bass to play with a ton of options (both JJ and J/MM are available, and the singles can be true single or humbuckers)

All your options are good, but I think I would go Carvin.
 
#29
Well now; that depends how you spec your Carvin SB.
Sure; if you go 100% bottom of the line, you'll have some significant coin. On the other hand, it's easy to run one up to $1800 or more.

I've played one, it's a nice bass, with their single coils and preamp.
 
#31
johnbkim93 said:
Whats special about the MM pick up?
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It is more about pickup placement than the actual pickup (that is the 'problem' with the Lakland 55-94. The MM pickup is not in MM position, so really it doesn't sound that much like a MM). The MM pickup is basically two closely positioned single coil J type pickups in a single case, and is in what is called MM position on the MM basses (Lakland actually made an exact MM position bass called the 55-76 (since 76 was when Leo Fender introduced the original Music Man Stingray).

It is a unique tone, and a true MM configuration has parallel and series switching, which gives you a big, wide open, somewhat scooped, aggressive classic MM tone (parallel).... thing Louis Johnson in the 80's) or a more aggressive, grindy midrange MM tone (series....think Flea in the 90's).
 
#32
Chef said:
This is 100% right, IMO.
The Sadowsky ash/maple MV5JJ, with their single coil pickups is 100% my all time fave go to bass.

I've had Lakland J basses; no complaints, but, their not as good for me as my Sadowsky.

I had a very, very nice MTD. For 1 gig. 100% fail for me, literally disappearing in the mix. Same thing with the Sadowsky Modern. 1 gig and gone. Neither made it thru the first set before I switched to the Sadowsky MV5 again.
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One more complication. The Sadowsky Modern has a totally different vibe than the MTD, due to mostly the pickup position, with the neck pickup closer to the bridge, and the bridge pickup not quite as close to the bridge as the MTD (and of course, pickup voicing and preamp differences). It replaces that big, deep low end, polite low mids and sizzly top end of most MTD's with a massive dose of upper bass... super punchy. I found the Sadowsky Modern to be closer to the Roscoe and Ken Smith basses, and all these pickup placements vibe the Music Man thing a bit.... powerful soapbar(s) stacked close to the bridge. The Tommy Kennedy Fodera model is also somewhat similar (Tommy was very into the MM thing back in the day).
 
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#34
KJung said:
It is more about pickup placement than the actual pickup (that is the 'problem' with the Lakland 55-94. The MM pickup is not in MM position, so really it doesn't sound that much like a MM). The MM pickup is basically two closely positioned single coil J type pickups in a single case, and is in what is called MM position on the MM basses (Lakland actually made an exact MM position bass called the 55-76 (since 76 was when Leo Fender introduced the original Music Man Stingray).

It is a unique tone, and a true MM configuration has parallel and series switching, which gives you a big, wide open, somewhat scooped, aggressive classic MM tone (parallel).... thing Louis Johnson in the 80's) or a more aggressive, grindy midrange MM tone (series....think Flea in the 90's).
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This is why MM at the bridge is my favorite.

A jazz pickup can never be an MM pickup, but an MM pickup in split mode is a jazz pickup.

A soapbar is very similar, but the coils are smaller and closer together so it's not really an MM or a Jazz.
 
#35
Chef said:
fwiw: I've never, ever like a J/MM bass.
They make a whole bunch of tones, that don't sound like anything I want.

ymmv.
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Yeah, I always found my 55-94 a 'close but no cigar' sort of thing. It 'kind of' sounded like a J, 'kind of' sounded like a P, and 'kind of' sounded like an MM... but not really. With the MM tapped and the neck pickup/bridge blended, it did a pretty good job of vibing a 60's style J with Bartolini HC J pickups.
 
#36
KJung said:
I've spend a bit of time with the Carvin. Pretty nice. Very 'thin/modern' neck profile, and a quite accurate 'Fender' J tone. Pretty nice bass for the money. The preamp was a bit 'rough sounding' IMO, but very nice instrument for those looking for an active J style on a budget, and want it to sound reasonably 'Fender-like' (compared, for example, to the more unique J take of the Sadowsky voicing).
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Also one big difference with the Carvin is the scale length. The SB5000 is 34" while the others mentioned are 35". I personally prefer 35" for the tighter, bigger sounding B string it gives you.
 
#39
Chef said:
I had a very, very nice MTD. For 1 gig. 100% fail for me, literally disappearing in the mix. Same thing with the Sadowsky Modern. 1 gig and gone. Neither made it thru the first set before I switched to the Sadowsky MV5 again.
Click to expand...

If I recall that MTD was an ash/walnut/ash/maple was it not? The same wood combination that I had trouble with (in terms of "cutting through the mix").
 
#40
mmbongo said:
Really? Sadowsky does not make a 35"? I had no idea.
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Yes, all 34" scale, at least in part to get that JJ and P pickup position correct. Roger's instruments are very influenced by the classic Fenders, and Roger's B string is among the best in the business (very rigid, stable necks... very nice).

MTD will do a 34" scale as a custom order, I believe, but I'm not a big fan of having a luthier 'change their formula'.
 

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