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narrowed down to mtd, sadowsky, lakland

#61
Lonnybass said:
Does anyone have feedback as to WHY the MTDs were so difficult to fit into the live mix? I've seen a few threads on this issue over the past couple days, and I'm curious to learn what was problematic in terms of the signal.

Lonnybass
Click to expand...

Again, wonderful basses that many love. I gigged one for almost a decade.

The 'issue' is a combination (IMO and IME) of the OEM Bartolini's (unusual active models) and the voicing tweak of the Bart preamp that result in LOTS of deep bass and lots of upper treble. Combine that with a pickup location that is quite wide (i.e., the neck pickup is relatively close to the neck, and the bridge pickup is really close to the bridge), and you get an inherent tone that emphasized the deep low end and treble versus the upper bass and/or mid mids.

Some wood combinations magnify this inherent voice (for example, a lightweight body and wenge neck).

The good news is, it is relatively easy to match these basses with a mid present rig that is voiced tight and has good upper bass push, like the old Eden XLT cabs or whatever). The bad news is, most front of house systems magnify the inherent voicings of these basses IMO and IME, and you CAN (on some occasions) get into trouble with too much bass coming from the subs, too much sizzly coming from the horns/tweeters, and not enough midrange meat to provide good note definition and 'tone center'.

The MTD does have a three setting midrange control, and that can be useful, but given what sounds like relatively narrow Q to me, cranking up the mids 'artificially' with that on-board can quickly become peaky and 'electronic' sounding.

So, pickup placement and pickup/preamp OEM voicing, combined with non-traditional body and neck woods gives many of the MTD's that uber modern sort of thing that can kind of sit 'over and under a mix'. Again, IMO, IMO, IME, and IMO:)
 
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#63
For me:
way too scooped. No mids.
All big lows and high highs.

Lonnybass said:
Does anyone have feedback as to WHY the MTDs were so difficult to fit into the live mix? I've seen a few threads on this issue over the past couple days, and I'm curious to learn what was problematic in terms of the signal.

Lonnybass
Click to expand...
 
#64
Lonnybass said:
Does anyone have feedback as to WHY the MTDs were so difficult to fit into the live mix? I've seen a few threads on this issue over the past couple days, and I'm curious to learn what was problematic in terms of the signal.

Lonnybass
Click to expand...

Fender-type basses are relatively easy to mix. They're very middy and don't have a whole lot of low end or high highs. MTDs are full range (I don't agree that they don't have mids, but I'll boost the mids slightly sometimes to balance out the low end and high end - which I usually have set flat). I think a good sound guy should be able to deal with this (my main MTD has gotten lots of praise from the best FOH guy I know). Then again, that MTD is an alder/rosewood combo so that might have something to do with it. But one of the people who owned this bass before me said that the sound guy at his church couldn't handle the bass. You know the typical bass sound check: sound guys don't want to have to deal with the bass for more than 15 seconds and for folks who are used to Fender-type frequency spectrums the MTD can be a lot to handle. Same thing goes for playing them. Part of the reason Fenders are great for studio is that a player can get away with being a lot more sloppy. That won't cut it with an MTD or similar full-range bass. You have to be a cleaner, more precise bass player with these instruments to sound good.
 
#65
Lots of really interesting input here around the live mix blend and dialling in some of the more "full rangy" instruments, especially those with the bridge pickup so close to the saddles. It's certainly one thing to like how they sound through your rig, but their application through a FOH system is another matter entirely, especially if you are going pre-EQ with the DI.

Lonnybass
 
#67
Lonnybass said:
Lots of really interesting input here around the live mix blend and dialling in some of the more "full rangy" instruments, especially those with the bridge pickup so close to the saddles. It's certainly one thing to like how they sound through your rig, but their application through a FOH system is another matter entirely, especially if you are going pre-EQ with the DI.

Lonnybass
Click to expand...

Something else that might be worth noting: my experience with full-range basses in combination with wireless systems have not been great. In fact, they weren't that great with my Sadowsky preamp-equipped Lull either.
 
#69
There is no reason to get an NYC Sadowsky, unless:
you have a target weight that the Metros can't meet
or
you have specific fancy wood choices the Metros don't offer.

If you want one "just cause," is another fine reason to do so though ;D
 
#70
Chef said:
There is no reason to get an NYC Sadowsky, unless:
you have a target weight that the Metros can't meet
or
you have specific fancy wood choices the Metros don't offer.

If you want one "just cause," is another fine reason to do so though ;D
Click to expand...

You're absolutely right. I have one of these beauties ([Invalid or Expired Link Removed]) but am looking for an 8lb'er with a maple fretboard. Once I find one, I'll put this one up for sale..... then find a Sadowsky P ;)
 
#73
It's good for someone to ask this question from time to time so we can re-hash it. Lots of accurate comments, good civil thread. Here's my <2c:

There is a particular set of bass sounds that we have grown used to hearing on the tens of thousands of studio recordings. Mostly those variants were created with Fender basses and considerable signal chains and engineering. Roger Sadowsky has successfully captured that in his preamp, and that is why many players, including myself are such devout users. That preamp is simply brain dead great sound. That is why the Sadowsky is a great choice.

OTOH, it is equally true that there are many other fine instruments out there, and that much of what goes down is in the player's hands and heart. Also, there is sufficient variation from instrument to instrument that it is entirely possible for a player to become enamored with some otherwise surprising instruments. Got to take them one at a time. One doesn't exactly need a collection, but having a few different sounds in the tool kit is not a bad thing. For example, I've got an older Tobias that a lot of players would never take out on the gig. Too narrow, too smooth etc etc. Doesn't bother me a bit. I play whatever suits. If someone loves Carvin, great. They probably have a nice one. Main thing is to get out on the gig.

But I must say my Sadowsky and Sadowsky preamp equipped Fender get a lot of work.
 
#74
I've played a MTD and it was ok, the Lakland was nice and punchy and capable dog lots of different tones but I ultimately bought a Sadowsky MV4-HPJ for playing most everything including gospel. I've got a drop tuner set at C for when I need to get low and run EB Cobalts for the extra tension. Normally I run extra lights with low action for extra grind but ill swap out the E for drop tuning. Eventually I'll buy a Metro Will Lee 5 for a little more flexibility.
YMMV
 
#76
Chef said:
I had a very, very nice MTD. For 1 gig. 100% fail for me, literally disappearing in the mix. Same thing with the Sadowsky Modern. 1 gig and gone. Neither made it thru the first set before I switched to the Sadowsky MV5 again.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised to hear that about the Modern. Mine cuts through nicely, better than my other basses. Was the rig the problem?

Then again, I've never played any other Sadowskys so what do I know!
 
#77
Don't forget, Lakland also makes regular Jazz basses if you decide the MM pickup is not for you.

Also, you may want to check out a Spector Coda, which would be my first choice if looking for a Jazz bass.

IMG_4482_zps744fe6a2.jpg
 
#78
Mvilmany said:
Wait, what? I feel that a vintage tone is wonderful, and would miss it on any bass. A good bass and nice match of electronics should have a good midrange. I'm not big on adjusting mods from bass, and would much rather have a VTC than a mid on the bass's preamp. My 2cents
Click to expand...

I'm on your side, that's why I'm, say, more for G&L L series (active/passive two band only eq with serial/parallel option) than for M series (active only three band eq)
I just told that Sadowsky VTC stays unfortunately low output compared to Sadowsky flat active tone
And this is more true if tweaking active pre on demand
I just told Sadowsky is weak whenever passive, while G&L L series, Ibanez with Nordstrands and Fender Noiseless series stay very close to their (flat) active tone

Cheers,
Wallace
 
#80
Used Sadowsky Metro jazz with single coils, VTC and your laughing.
I had a MTD 535/24 that I so wanted to love, but it had the tone as described here - boom and sizzle, not for me.
Never tried a Lakland their pickup selection I found odd... Bought and sold over 90 basses since I found TB and not one Lakland.
As for a Sadowsky in passive mode, never use it, but the VTC on the other hand I use all the time and IMHO it is a must have... With pretty much all boutique builders having it as an option.
Many folks have suggested Carvin SB series, I had one with HC pups. It is a nice bass for the money, but I found myself wanting to swap pups and the pre - which would have been to much money for what I felt the bass was worth.
To reiterate - Used Sadowsky Metro, single coils and VTC from someone here with good feedback - $1500 - 2000 most all the time. Solid workhorse of a bass. :D
 

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