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NBD - Chinese "Dan Armstrong Ampeg" counterfeit.

Axstar

Inactive
Jul 8, 2016
4,443
8,636
Scotland.
Curiosity got the better of me, and I recently purchased a Dan Armstrong copy from China. The bass took just over a month to get to me from China. Specifically the bass spent around ten days in Qingdao (apparently this is typical for Customs there to 'find space on the plane') and the bass was delayed leaving the factory. Apparently.

I've commented on a few Chinabacker threads, and I've seen videos on Youtube of both quick wins and horror stories when it comes to importing Chinese instruments. I fancied taking the plunge myself.

These Dan Armstrong copies appeard on Ebay a few months ago. I figured that between Ebay and Paypal I would have a bit more coverage than buying directly from AliExpress. The bass cost £227 with some sort of novelty discount, and the shipping was free. I did have to pay customs charges, which I will cover later.

The bass arrived yesterday. But don't listen to me, listen to them:

XL2GOOY.jpg

Lol
That QR code kept trying to take my phone on a voyage of discovery while I was snapping this photo.

The good:

EfAaTm1.jpg


Eh, it looks like a Dan Armstrong bass. In fact, as long as you aren't an Armstrong purist the adjustable pickup and bridge are upgrades over the original design. The bass isn't too heavy, balances nicely on a strap and has a 32'' scale length (not advertised by the seller) over the 30'' of the original.

The bass has a chunky P-bass style neck. It has a truss rod; I've seen photos of Les Pauls with a simple metal bar with a fake adjuster welded on the end. That truss rod works. I was able to dial all the relief out of the neck, which was impressive given my level of expectation.

The bad:

360liYE.jpg


Woops. Somebody smeared that writing in the factory. That pickguard is also heavily treated rosewood rather than the Formica of the originals. Considering CITES, and the ramifications involved there, I feel a little bit dirty importing what is essentially grey market rosewood into the UK.

Plus, it goes without saying that neither Dan Armstrong or Ampeg had anything to do with this creation.

Fear not, the pickguard is already off the bass. I'm going to cut one white and one tort pickguard for the bass, and keep the rosewood pickguard in storage.

The bass arrived in a crumbly styrofoam coffin, bound up in yellow tape. It didn't come with even a soft case, though two Allen keys and a cheap cable were included in the coffin. The smell of chemicals that escaped the coffin when I first opened it was astonishing.

3lxYXss.jpg

There could be anything in there.

Things get downright crooked when it comes to the import charges. The seller lists these as a 'gift' with a declared value of $85 USD:

mdJq5BB.jpg


This is something to watch out for. Customs may well do a spot check on these packages and take a dim view on whether this is A) a gift and B) only worth $85 (though in my view this might not be far off the truth). Apparently Chinese sellers may fudge the value to massage domestic taxes back in China, though I'm not sure how much truth there is in this. Either way, I'm complicit in a scam as the seller stated on the Ebay advert that they under-report the value of the instrument:

"The BIN price does not include custom duty. But please do not worry, we can provide an invoice with a very low value, you may need to pay little or no customs duties. About the duty, Please consult your local customs before purchasing our products."

It is also worth noting at this stage that the electronics are no great shakes. Two very small 500 k pots, some very weak solder joints and a cheap ceramic MM-style humbucker. Nothing to write home about.

rrp1SqC.jpg


The Ugly:

The quality of the neck is pretty low. Original Dan Armstrongs had nice quarter-sawn maple necks with some nice figuring appearing from time to time. By contrast my bass has a pale, aneimic maple neck with mineral streaks and a sort of thin, powdery lacquer applied.

The fretwork is fairly horrible. The frets are rough, the ends are fairly sloppily cut and shaped, and some of the fret slots are finished off badly. There are at least two frets with high spots and they have a tarnished, ugly appearance.

The action is also a tad high.

JsW1pE7.jpg


Errr, yeah. The saddles don't go much lower than this. Plus, because the heel of the neck extends under the pickguard you can't shim the neck without shaving wood off the top of the heel. Without doing this you would have the pickguard sitting proud of the body in this location.

This is a design issue you shouldn't see on any bass at any price point, but this drives home my opinion on Chinese bootleg instruments. They look the part (to some degree) because that is what they are built to do. Nobody in the factory cares about low action or even frets. They cut out wood and plastic to the shape you want, and then take your money. These are props, decoys and distractions. These are a demonstrable waste of money. No beginner bassist should go anywhere near a bass with action like this.

Also, come on dude. You had one job.
uMdwqxM.jpg


You can see the quality of the fretwork in the photo above, as well as the fairly crude, unfinished look of the woodwork on the neck.

Finally: Most of the screws are drilled off-centre. The bridge pickup screws are five random non-matching parts bin screws cut down crudely to length. The neck bolts are also cut down randomly from longer screws and three of them turn freely in the wood.


I can fix this bass up as this is the sort of thing I consider fun. Unless you want to do a whole raft of fairly intensive modding don't bother with this bass. The stock electronics are built to fail, the action is horribly high and requires wood working to correct, the fretwork is terrible and the general fit and finish is cheap and approximate.

This bass isn't "as good as the real thing" or anything approaching it. Anybody who says this about any Chinese counterfeit instrument should be challenged on this assertion; they likely just don't know what they are looking for or have ever handled a well made instrument.

You can buy a much better bass for £250, any day of the week, from more reputable sources. You won't wait a month for your bass and you won't be stung with Customs charges. Just go here and take a look: Invalid Link Removed
 
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They use chemicals to avoid that insects will be shipped with the goods.

Yikes! It is gone.

This concerns me for a couple of reasons. One of my pet tasks at my last job was to attend to a pair of bee hives and check a trap periodically for giant Asian hornets. These don't survive long in the Scottish climate, but some have arrived bundled in with Chinese goods in the UK and occasionally made a mess of a hive. They are becoming an issue in the South of England, along with everything else that is causing issues for honey bees. These hornets are big, pack a nasty sting, and will dwell around the entrance of a bee hive and cart off individual bees back to their own nests.

Secondly, there was an outbreak of bark beetles around one of the ports in Scotland. Somebody imported a ship's worth of building materials, and tree bark was used as a cushion in transit. This bark was thrown away at the port, and the beetles crawled out and infected nearby stands of trees. Sod's law dictates that with the shifting climate these pests linger where once they might have been dead on arrival.
 
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Yikes! It is gone.

This concerns me for a couple of reasons. One of my pet tasks at my last job was to attend to a pair of bee hives and check a trap periodically for giant Asian hornets. These don't survive long in the Scottish climate, but some have arrived bundled in with Chinese goods in the UK and occasionally made a mess of a hive. They are becoming an issue in the South of England, along with everything else that is causing issues for honey bees. These hornets are big, pack a nasty sting, and will dwell around the entrance of a bee hive and cart off individual bees back to their own nests.

Secondly, there was an outbreak of bark beetles around one of the ports in Scotland. Somebody imported a ship's worth of building materials, and tree bark was used as a cushion in transit. This bark was thrown away at the port, and the beetles crawled out and infected nearby stands of trees. Sod's law dictates that with the shifting climate these pests linger where once they might have been dead on arrival.
You mean these hornets?
4-E0-E8540-F990-4028-8915-067-C6-BEA6464.jpg

An individual hornet can kill forty European honey bees per minute, while a group of 30 hornets can destroy an entire hive containing 30,000 bees in less than four hours.

Unlike their European relatives, the Japanese honey bee has a defense against the hornets. When a hornet approaches the hive to release pheromones, the bee workers will retreat back to the hive, leaving an opening to allow the hornet scout to enter. The bees then emerge from their hiding places in an angry cloud formation containing some 500 individuals. They form a tight ball around the attacking hornet that acts like a convection oven with the bees vibrating their wings to generate heat via muscular exertion and then directing the air warmed around them inward to the center of the ball. This causes the interior temperature of the ball to rise to 47 °C (117 °F). Additionally, the bees' activity increases carbon dioxide inside the ball. The hornet's ability to withstand heat decreases as carbon dioxide concentrations increase, ultimately causing the increased temperature to become lethal.

Other than that, I recently played a Greco Dan Armstrong copy at Guitar Center...much nicer than the few Ampegs I've tried.
It's gone now, after hanging on the wall for two months, but the price was not too hard to swallow...$695.
 
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That seems pretty typical of Chinese manufacturing, they are capable of far better, but why bother? I finally played a Chickenbacker Ric clone a couple years ago, for sale in a pawnshop for $450. They didn't claim it was real, or notify you it wasn't. Buyer Beware. The bass looked great from around three feet, nice shiny finish, Rickenbacker shape, similar looking hardware, etc. Too bad I played it, sounded nothing like a Ric, high action, dreadful buzzing fret issues, sharp fret ends. The frets appeared not to have been leveled or polished at all, just banged or pressed into place, and out the door it went. You could make a playable instrument out of it by investing some money or time in a fret job, new electronics, etc. The bridge was odd, but functional, tuners the usual Chinese cheapies.
 
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The problem with buying Chinese online is that you don't know the seller and what he's selling.
But I wouldn't be surprised if some Chinese basses weren't worth every penny.
I went to a guitar show a couple of years ago, and a guy was selling Chinese Rick's that were every bit as good as a top of the line Squier.

He was asking $600 trying to make a 100% profit.
I'm not a Rick fan per sei, $600 is more than I will pay for a copy, but would've done $300, which is what he paid,
since I could check it out first.

057912
 
This just further compounds my assessment that aside from being morally dubious, these Chinese copies are just crap. That fretwork is shocking and the implications of being stung at customs are worrying too.

Exactly this. If this was your first bass, or only bass, you should be enjoying your new instrument. Instead you're worrying about Customs cutting the thing into lengths, some sort of bait 'n' switch trickery from the seller or, apparently, getting gassed out with insecticide when opening the packaging. This shouldn't be your first impressions with any new instrument.

"curiosity?" isn't that a euphemism for GAS? :laugh:

I've thought about this a bit, and I would say no. I bought my Mustang and Dearmond Starfire because I wanted to play those basses. This 'Dan Armstrong' is just a sideshow attraction. This is like me fixing up a barn find-grade car. It will never be my daily driver, but I want to practice my repair chops and polish this turd as much as possible. I reckon I can make it an acceptable instrument, but I will have my work cut out.


I enjoyed your excellent review! I owned two Dan Armstrong basses and one guitar in the early 70's and I miss them.

Those poop-brown pickups are fascinating. The bass pickups had two coils in them, wound to different specs with different gauge wire. The tone control in the original bass blended between the two coils. Given that Dan and co were working out of a warehouse in NJ they did a remarkable job. It is a shame that Dan cut corners right at the last minute and devised that weird wee bridge with the rosewood blade, very much copied from Danelectro designs.

You mean these hornets?

Those are the boys. Finding one of those in the bass packaging, even dead, would be horrible. I saw a few Oriental Hornets on holiday in Greece. They tended to hang out around the swimming pool at the hotel for whatever reason.

The frets appeared not to have been leveled or polished at all, just banged or pressed into place, and out the door it went.

Snap! I've spent tonight grinding down the fret ends. I need to pick up more double-sided tape before I can do any leveling work. I'm more worried that these frets are quite soft.


He was asking $600 trying to make a 100% profit.
I'm not a Rick fan per sei, $600 is more than I will pay for a copy, but would've done $300, which is what he paid.

I would consider that a 'hassle tax'. I've heard about Chinese builders who swap out components with cheaper equivalents almost while bowing gracefully and promising you the highest spec components. If some guy wants to make a job of dealing with them then fair enough, he's earned his cut. No way I would pay $600 for a Chickenbacker though.



My plan of action for this bass is:

1) Plug, dowel and re-drill the neck bolt holes in the neck heel.

2) Level, crown and polish the frets.

3) Polish out the electronics cavity, so that you can see my astonishing wiring from all angles.

4) Cut a new pickguard for the bass from tort material. I have a white/black/white pickguard waiting to be cut out as well.

5) Solder a new wiring harness for the bass (CTS pots, Switchcraft jack, cloth-insulation wiring and orange drop capacitor).

6) Scrape the crap lacquer off the neck and treat it with boiled linseed oil, Tung oil, Danish oil or some other fancy oil.

7) Re-install the neck. This will involve a chunky shim in the neck pocket and the corresponding depth of wood shaved off the top of the heel to fit under the pickguard.

8) New bridge screws, as the stock ones are horrible.
 
I also bought one about a year ago. Arrived within 3 weeks. I'd have to measure my old neck see if its a true 34", but it feels off considering the small size body. I kinda wish i didn't swap the pickup, could've used it for another project.

But I modded mine: Full size pots, switchcraft output jack, new pickup & new neck - which i built Bass builds: My own & for clients (friends)

The rosewood on this bass neck i built, i had purchased the year before the CITES had kicked in. So this is the last of the rosewood i worked with.

For a knock, it's fun.
 
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@Axstar

So you'll be playing it by Friday night then Alan :laugh:

Yeah. I'm going to form a Curved Air tribute band and tear up Wallyford Miners Club on Friday. Tickets £3 on the door.

No. The opposite. They do this to try to save you some taxes/duty that your own country charges you on the item based on the declared value.

I think it is some sort of mutually beneficial arrangement. This is a breakdown of my charges:

j2npzTR.jpg


Their fudge saved me money! I've paid more charges on less expensive goods with a more honest declaration attached to them. I guess they want my repeated custom, and probably hoodwink the taxman at their end too.
 
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