NBD jackpot! SX 6-string

[bassbenj]

After taking the stock bridge off and putting it back on yesterday, I am not really too impressed with it. The screws that hold it on are pretty skinny. I think they would strip the body wood before I could really them tight. So, I just scored a new Hipshot A style on eBay for $80.

I'm just waiting on a reply from another vendor to get some Gotoh Res-o-lite tuners ordered.

A few more weeks and I should have a pretty darned awesome 6-string P/J!

Hipshot A is clearly the Shiznit on this bass. Once you take strings on and off a couple times you find that feeding them through the holes in the Factory bridge no matter how you try to be careful, still seem to whip down and scratch the finish near the bridge. $80 is great score for the real thing. I put Chinese "A" clones on mine. They are like $30. Not as well made as the real thing, but top loading feature is they key. Looks great too.

We are obviously loving your progress on this project!

 

[bassbenj]

I mean, I don't know exactly what you're looking for, but this seems like it would be a better starting point in pretty much every way...

Under $1200 for a USA made bass that looks and sounds amazing, will play amazing (Carvins are consistently perfect or close to perfect on this), AND then you can add whatever factory options you want for pretty cheap, as well as a fitted case. The only advantage I can see to the SX is that you can pay for it piece by piece, but I think Carvin will start a build for 50% down, which it looks like you're already starting to push close to that anyway (and still have a ways to go to get what you want).

I can't speak for StuartV, but I can speak for me. I am a Carvin fan and I love my AC50, BUT there is a reason I own 3.5 six string SX basses and not one Carvin. The first being that I have 3.5 basses not one! Yep, fretless, rounds and flats. Ash and Alder. All different All killer. The next is Carvin basses are modern and quite frankly I've never been impressed with Carvin 6ers (until the Vanquish). Sterile tone. Pointy headstocks. Ho hum look to balance great fit and finish. And even though the Vanquish is obviously (from video) one killer bass for the bucks, I've got plenty like that. Got a Modulus Q6, got a Modulus TBX, got a Ken Smith 6er, got an Alembic fretless 6er. All killer. All modern. All two band. Even some active/passive. All expensive.

My question started with the Fender Steve Bailey back before they discontinued it. And that question would be is a six string Fender jazz Steve Bailey bass something or not? So how to find out? Well one could buy a Steve Bailey if you could find one or go whole hog and get a Low End.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

(Picture is actually 5 string, but you can order it in 6 string)

Wow! Look at that. There is a TOTALLY cool Fender clone 6er to find out if it is something or not. Totally traditional. Totally well made. Totally total. Just one minor problem. Not $1500 but costs $3,300! How much money does 3.5 of those add up to? And I'd have to pay it BEFORE I found out if a Fender Jazz 6er made sense (Obviously Fender doesn't think so!).

Sure so maybe StuartV got some more expensive upgrades than what I did, but they obviously are going to give him what he wants just as mine gave me what I was looking for for less. And while the Vanquish is a very impressive bass to me, it was not the question I was looking to answer.

And by the way, the answer is Yes, a Fender-clone 6 string bass IS SOMETHING! So, yes, now I do have the information so I could fork out for a nice Low End bass and not worry about what it might do for me. But in the meanwhile, My SX 6ers are doing just fine.

And there is one more point that I know very well. And that is once you've forked out a couple of grand for a bass, you are VERY reluctant to start ripping things off it and drilling holes in it to try ideas that you think might make it better! A $200 bass....not so much.

 

[StuartV]

My apologies. I didn't realize I was blowing off free advice from an Expert in What I Want.

Yes, I'm sure the spray can finish you do in your garage will look JUST LIKE a fender custom shop. But first you have to stop huffing the paint. I just don't understand the point of refinishing a perfectly fine looking bass when you're already planning on doing another finish on it in the near future. Instead of acting like 3 year old that needs it NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW, just be a little patient and wait until your "forever finish".

I didn't say my DIY job would look like a FCS. I said it would get me by until I get a pro paint job - unless, of course, I somehow get lucky and do actually manage a perfect paint job on my own. "Perfectly fine looking bass" is your opinion. Which is just like an a$$hole. Everybody has one.

The 3 year old attitude is the one that thinks everyone else has to agree with him and what he likes and wants to throw a tantrum and call names when someone else doesn't do what he wants.

For 1500, you're easily in Carvin 6 string territory, with a decent amount of options. So you can get whatever body/top/neck/fb options you want out of their wide selection, a bout 30-40 different finishes, a range of electronics options (I don't know if they do a P/J, and literally nobody does a P/P, but you could always get it routed if that's really what you want). You get to choose from different body styles and headstock shapes.

Literally Carvin (Kiesel) does a P/P. If you had actually read my earlier posts you would have seen the mention of the Kiesel Roy Vogt Signature Vanquish 6, which is a 6-string P/P.

But the biggest difference is you are buying an MIA bass with MUCH better fit and finish, much better components

Dang! I wish MY crystal ball hold told me that what I'm building will not have as good fit, finish, and components as a Carvin. Maybe I would have chosen a different path. I'll have to remember to let Pat Wilkins know that Omega Monkey said his finishes are not up to Carvin quality. Maybe he'll go see if he can get some lessons from them.

I mean, I don't know exactly what you're looking for

That seems pretty obvious. But, if you had read my earlier posts you would.

You have already made it clear that it's a big concern for you that someone might see what you're playing and think it's an off the rack Squier from GC. Respect must be earned, and you have failed. Your opinion means as much to me as any anonymous high schooler's.

If you stick with playing bass, maybe someday you will come to appreciate that it's a lot more satisfying for people to be impressed with your playing and how you sound than with the name on your headstock or how expensive they think your bass was.

Kiesel makes the RVS and it's pretty much exactly what I want - except that I don't like the body shape. I'm not that picky on body shapes. I like Ps, Js, Sterlings and Stingrays, pretty much any G&L body shape, pretty much any Peavey. But, I don't like the Carvin Vanquish body shape. However, looks are #5 on my priority list after tone, playability, feel, and weight. The Vanquish also appears to be heavier than I want. They spec 9.6 pounds, but every Vanquish 5 and 6 on the guitars in stock page is over 10.5 and half of them are over 11. I want 10 pounds or less.

I'm going to build exactly what I want, have less money in it than a Carvin RVS, have equal or better components, equal or better playability and feel, equal or better tone, equal or better weight, equal or better finish and, with all that, have a body and headstock shape that I like better than the Vanquish.

What's so hard to understand?

 

[StuartV]

How does that bass balance with a strap?

I strapped up and used it at a 2-hour big band rehearsal last night. Standing the whole time. At one point, I kind of leaned forward, let go with both hands and give my shoulders a few wiggles. The bass stayed put, with the out just a bit above horizontal. I use a Planet Waves Comfort strap, which is 3" wide, so it helps some with any bass that has a tendency to neck dive. But, this one appears to have little to no neck dive. I'm going to replace the tuners with Gotoh Res-o-lites and then I guess it will be even less likely to neck dive.

Hopefully, routing the rear of the body for a control cavity won't throw off the balance and introduce neck dive.....

 

[Omega Monkey]

LOL, chill out dude. It's ok, you care more about arbitrary things about appearance than other concerns. But most other people reading this probably don't. They would probably say "oh, I can just spend $1200 on the Carvin and have a turn key bass and be out playing it instead of screwing around with it every weekend".

But with that in mind, it makes even less sense why you would do a tossed off interim finish before doing a more serious one later. Why not just wait until you're ready to do the real finish? Is having a natural ash finish really so horrible that you'd rather take the bass out of commission while you take it all apart, sand it down, refinish, and then have to put it all back together?

By the way, you LITERALLY said the black finish you were going to do was going to look like a FCS. Which is fine if you think you can pull it off. Just own it.

Also, have you really never heard the term "fit and finish" before? It's used all the time regarding guitars, cars, and all kinds of other stuff. The "finish" part doesn't mean literally the paint job or whatever, but the small details that go into differentiating a high quality, expensive item from a low quality cheap one. On a bass it's going to include stuff like the fret work, holes being drilled straight, etc... In other words the stuff you're going to get on a $1200 MIA bass that you probably won't on a $200 MIC bass, even once you add $1000+ worth of parts and mods.

 

[plankspanker13]

I like the fact that the bridge appears to be high-mass, and would pull the trigger on a 5-string model, in a heartbeat, if it had such a bridge. Alas, the Rondo site has an ash-bodied 5er with a chrome ash tray obscuring the bridge, and a thumb-rest that looks a bit superfluous. I copied the model name, pasted it into a Google search, and removed the CT designation from the model name, before hitting ENTER, and came up with the same bass, without the additional chrome. The bridge is not high-mass.

Given what I know about my preferences, and, more importantly, my actual needs, vis a vis a 5er, I would probably take the Squier P5 direction, instead. As of right now, even that is a decision to be made in the future, as I have not had the real need for a 5er in over a decade. At 51, there are no delusions of grandeur, and there's a realistic outlook on my playing/gigging future. In a perfect world, I could justify having an Ibanez Portamento (fretless) 5er, but my octaver pedals help with extended low range needs, and the fretless itch is presently scratched by a fretless GoldTone microbass.

It's nice to get to a point with your gear where a simple dose of rational thought can kill the GAS pains 99% of the time. Methinks that I have reached such a point, and thus, I am reluctant to spend more than $300 (including mods) on a 5er that may not see much action. Of course, if I get into a band that does a lot of modern country covers, the need would be there, as would be the justification to perhaps spend the better part of $500 (or even more) on a gig warrior modded to my liking. Given the particulars of my market area, this is a distinct possibility, but nobody should hold their breath.

 

[StuartV]

I took off a tuner and weighed it. 57g. So, Gotoh Res-O-Lites would save me 17g x 6 = 102g = 3.6oz.

I got lucky, too. I took off the Low B tuning machine to weigh and discovered that B string was broken! It only had 1 core strand left holding it together. I heard a pop when I put the new strings on last weekend and was just getting the B string to pitch. But, I wasn't looking at the tuning peg and I thought maybe a gear had slipped. I guess not!

I also just picked up threaded inserts for the Hipshot bridge install and the neck joint. I probably should not take the time to do that this weekend. But, I might anyway....

 

[dabbler]

I like the fact that the bridge appears to be high-mass, and would pull the trigger on a 5-string model, in a heartbeat, if it had such a bridge. ...

Wow, you have more GAS control than I. Replacements for that bridge are all over the place: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...Bass Bridge&qid=1456507636&ref_=sr_1_2&sr=8-2

I did not use that exact one, but it looks just like the ones I found...

 

[AngelCrusher]

I can't speak for StuartV, but I can speak for me. I am a Carvin fan and I love my AC50, BUT there is a reason I own 3.5 six string SX basses and not one Carvin. The first being that I have 3.5 basses not one! Yep, fretless, rounds and flats. Ash and Alder. All different All killer. The next is Carvin basses are modern and quite frankly I've never been impressed with Carvin 6ers (until the Vanquish). Sterile tone. Pointy headstocks. Ho hum look to balance great fit and finish. And even though the Vanquish is obviously (from video) one killer bass for the bucks, I've got plenty like that. Got a Modulus Q6, got a Modulus TBX, got a Ken Smith 6er, got an Alembic fretless 6er. All killer. All modern. All two band. Even some active/passive. All expensive.

My question started with the Fender Steve Bailey back before they discontinued it. And that question would be is a six string Fender jazz Steve Bailey bass something or not? So how to find out? Well one could buy a Steve Bailey if you could find one or go whole hog and get a Low End.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

(Picture is actually 5 string, but you can order it in 6 string)

Wow! Look at that. There is a TOTALLY cool Fender clone 6er to find out if it is something or not. Totally traditional. Totally well made. Totally total. Just one minor problem. Not $1500 but costs $3,300! How much money does 3.5 of those add up to? And I'd have to pay it BEFORE I found out if a Fender Jazz 6er made sense (Obviously Fender doesn't think so!).

Sure so maybe StuartV got some more expensive upgrades than what I did, but they obviously are going to give him what he wants just as mine gave me what I was looking for for less. And while the Vanquish is a very impressive bass to me, it was not the question I was looking to answer.

And by the way, the answer is Yes, a Fender-clone 6 string bass IS SOMETHING! So, yes, now I do have the information so I could fork out for a nice Low End bass and not worry about what it might do for me. But in the meanwhile, My SX 6ers are doing just fine.

And there is one more point that I know very well. And that is once you've forked out a couple of grand for a bass, you are VERY reluctant to start ripping things off it and drilling holes in it to try ideas that you think might make it better! A $200 bass....not so much.

It's cool that you like the inexpensive basses, but you are talking about basses that while are much more expensive, are on a whole different level. The whole point of spending that kind of bread on a bass is that it comes how you want already. You don't have to make it better.

 

[arbiterusa]

I have had an SX tele (OK) and an SX bass which I'm still kicking myself for letting go. Their stuff is better than one would expect, most of the time.

 

[StuartV]

Wow, you have more GAS control than I. Replacements for that bridge are all over the place: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015H4JKXG?keywords=5 String Vintage Bass Bridge&qid=1456507636&ref_=sr_1_2&sr=8-2

I did not use that exact one, but it looks just like the ones I found...

That looks virtually identical to the stock bridge on my new SX - except for having 1 less string.

 

[StuartV]

It's cool that you like the inexpensive basses, but you are talking about basses that while are much more expensive, are on a whole different level. The whole point of spending that kind of bread on a bass is that it comes how you want already. You don't have to make it better.

I have and have had nice basses. A Sadowsky Metro. Several Peavey B-Quads and Cirruses. MIA G&Ls. EBMM Stingray and Sterling. Best of the best? Maybe not. Really, really nice? Definitely.

Not a single one of them ended up being exactly what I wanted. The closest, so far, is my EBMM Sterling 5H 2008 Limited Edition. But, even that one has a couple of things I would change if it were feasible.

So, I would say that spending that much money gets you something you don't HAVE to make better, but it doesn't necessarily get you something you don't WANT to make better. The only way I have found to get something that I - me, personally - don't want to make better is to order something completely custom. The best quotes I've gotten for that have been on the north side of $3K.

Or, I can spend $1500 on a custom built bass with myself as the prime contractor, instead of paying someone else to do it, and get something that I don't want to make better, because it already has literally everything I want. Some people will want to talk about "fit and finish" as being "the difference". Well, from what I can tell, as long as the neck pocket is a good fit, everything else is just "finish". Meaning, a good paint job on the body and possible refinish on the neck (if you're like me and don't like a gloss finish). And a top shelf pro doing a good fret level/crown/dressing. If the basic wood and neck joint quality is there and you put on top shelf components and you have the fit and finish done by top shelf pros, I can't think of a reason that anyone can't start with a $200 SX body and neck and end up with a bass that is literally just as good (including fit and finish) as any of those expensive basses. Roger Sadowsky, Carey Nordstrand, the guys at Fodera, etc., don't have a lock on finishing work such that nobody else can do just as well.

 

[StuartV]

Okay, I just ordered a set of Res-O-Lites. $145 w/free shipping.

So... that's:

strings
preamp (w/knobs)
pickups
bridge
tuners
threaded inserts for neck
threaded inserts for bridge
Strap locks

I'm leaving the stock nut on there... ;-) And the neck plate, for the moment.

If leave the body finished as is and I don't count the case or the strings, but I do count what the luthier is going to charge me to rout for the pickups and make me a pick guard, I will have less than $1100 in. I don't know of a 34" scale 6-string P/J I can buy for that price. Much less one with the quality of components this will have.

I can't wait to finish putting it together!

 

[AngelCrusher]

Well, from what I can tell, as long as the neck pocket is a good fit, everything else is just "finish". Meaning, a good paint job on the body and possible refinish on the neck (if you're like me and don't like a gloss finish). And a top shelf pro doing a good fret level/crown/dressing. If the basic wood and neck joint quality is there and you put on top shelf components and you have the fit and finish done by top shelf pros, I can't think of a reason that anyone can't start with a $200 SX body and neck and end up with a bass that is literally just as good (including fit and finish) as any of those expensive basses. Roger Sadowsky, Carey Nordstrand, the guys at Fodera, etc., don't have a lock on finishing work such that nobody else can do just as well.

The whole reason to get an SX is because it's low cost bang for the buck and you can play a pretty nice bass out without worrying about what happens to it. Congrats on getting a new bass, but lets not go crazy here.

 

[StuartV]

The whole reason to get an SX is because it's low cost bang for the buck and you can play a pretty nice bass out without worrying about what happens to it.

That's one possible reason.

Another reason would be to get a good neck and body for less than you can get them for from anywhere else (e.g. Warmoth) and use them to do your own custom build, just as you'd do with, for example, a Warmoth body and neck. Particularly when it's a custom build that you can't buy as a production model anywhere.

As I noted before, I can't even find anywhere else to buy a 6-string 34" scale neck and body, period, at any price. Much less a nice swamp ash body that goes together with the neck to make a complete bass that is 10.5# (or less, when I'm done).

 

[dabbler]

That's one possible reason.

Another reason would be to get a good neck and body for less than you can get them for from anywhere else (e.g. Warmoth) and use them to do your own custom build, just as you'd do with, for example, a Warmoth body and neck. Particularly when it's a custom build that you can't buy as a production model anywhere.

As I noted before, I can't even find anywhere else to buy a 6-string 34" scale neck and body, period, at any price. Much less a nice swamp ash body that goes together with the neck to make a complete bass that is 10.5# (or less, when I'm done).

Yeah! There are many reasons to buy SX. Different strokes for different folks!

 

[RED J]

Man these are nice. I almost bought one in a recent sell/buy spree but realized my two 5's E-C and B-G were more than enough and I didn't need to play a super slab 12 lb. sixer to have all on one.

 

[bassbenj]

It's cool that you like the inexpensive basses, but you are talking about basses that while are much more expensive, are on a whole different level. The whole point of spending that kind of bread on a bass is that it comes how you want already. You don't have to make it better.

You miss the whole point. Since the whole point of spending big bread is the bass comes the way you want it already, it's necessary that you KNOW what you want. As I point out above, I was not sure that a Fender clone 6 string even made sense. Obviously spending a bunch of cash on a high end bass when you don't know what you want is a good way to waste that money. The low price but decent materials of the SX means I not only can try the idea out, but also have no fear of drilling, modding, routing and whatever to the bass to try things I think might make it more what I want. That same cycle starting high end is definitely no going to be cost-effective.

So NOW that I've been around the block with SX I know much better what I want. And of course this includes knowing how much I might use a Fender 6. If I'm not going to use it enough to justify big bread, then why not just keep the SX which I've tweaked into what I want?

 

[StuartV]

it's necessary that you KNOW what you want. As I point out above, I was not sure that a Fender clone 6 string even made sense. Obviously spending a bunch of cash on a high end bass when you don't know what you want is a good way to waste that money.

My approach to that has been to identify basses I want to try, research the market to figure out what is a good-to-fair price for a used one, then shop around until I get one at a good price. Try it, then sell it for what I paid for it. That's why my new SX is the 31st bass I've owned. I've had a lot of basses and I have figured out what I like - while actually probably netting a very small profit overall on the basses I've owned and sold.

 

[AngelCrusher]

You miss the whole point. Since the whole point of spending big bread is the bass comes the way you want it already, it's necessary that you KNOW what you want. As I point out above, I was not sure that a Fender clone 6 string even made sense. Obviously spending a bunch of cash on a high end bass when you don't know what you want is a good way to waste that money. The low price but decent materials of the SX means I not only can try the idea out, but also have no fear of drilling, modding, routing and whatever to the bass to try things I think might make it more what I want. That same cycle starting high end is definitely no going to be cost-effective.

So NOW that I've been around the block with SX I know much better what I want. And of course this includes knowing how much I might use a Fender 6. If I'm not going to use it enough to justify big bread, then why not just keep the SX which I've tweaked into what I want?

I guess I am just in a different place in which I know what I want already. I didn't really miss the point.

Definitely agree that spending a lot of money on a bass when you don't know what you want is not a good idea.