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Please don't compare Fodera (I own one!) and other high end boutique brands/luthiers to the factory mass produced instruments in china. Of course there is a differnce, everyone knows that. So StuartV got a very nice looking chinese made two piece american swamp ash (or light ash, they sound the same anyway) jazz bass body and you can't tell him that it is bad just because it's made in china. Do american wood suppliers select their wood and sell only the bad and dull sounding pieces of ash to the chinese companies/brands or what? I've never owned a chinese/indonesia/vietnam/mongolian/etc bass but many guys here on TB are pretty happy with their SX's and I've seen manny comments like their basses are as good as any mexican or american fender out there (except for the cheap hardware, pickups and electronics).
You said alder is more consistent than ash these days? I don't think so. An ash body can suck the mids out? Not in my experience, and I had many ash body basses in the past (own 4 now, see the pics below). I really don't know, but all of them have beautiful mids, nicely ballanced with the low end and the crispy clear high end! But wait, they were all american basses dammit, maybe the american brands indeed use only the good pieces of american ash! Who knows
Alright then, right now I own 4 ash basses and just took some pics of them! As you can see on the pics, the wood grain (on all of them) looks pretty similar to StuartV's MIC american ash!
Warmoth Gecko 6, made in USA.: 2 piece american swamp ash body (don't know if it's real but warmoth said swamp ash when i bought it
) , quiled maple/purpleheart/pau ferro fb., SD active split coil pup/2band eq pre. kahler usa bridge, gotoh japan tuners.the assymetrical quilted maple/purpleheart neck is very playable!
EB Music Man Stingray bass, made in USA. sunburst, quite lite two piece ash body, maple neck, rosewood fingerboard, 2 band preamp:
Here is my '78 natural Feneder jazz bass that I bougt brand new 38 years ago from Manny's shop!
Perfectly matched 3 piece heavy ash body, maple neck/fb. made in usa. Gorgeous!
And finally, here is a fine example of japanese ash. (looks like the american ash to me though).
Yamaha TRB5IIF, 5 string fretless bass, made in Japan. 2 piece light ash body, quartersawn maple neck, rosewood fingerboard. gold bridge and tuners, stock Yamaha pickups and 3 band preamp. very nice fretless tone, incredible mids!!
the quarter sawn flamed maple neck plays like a dream and is extremely stable!
StuartV brought up the boutique comparisons. That is how it all started.
And this is not about your experience with basses or mine. I am just sharing what I have heard from many luthiers I have been lucky enough to speak with about tone woods over the years. I have two Ash basses. There is nothing wrong with Ash IMO. It is just their educated opinion on things and I was asked for more detail so I provided it. People get super defensive about instruments here sometimes. lol. Im not attacking anyone's purchase. Trust me.
That 78 Jazz looks real nice. Awesome bass.
And this is not about your experience with basses or mine. I am just sharing what I have heard from many luthiers I have been lucky enough to speak with about tone woods over the years. I have two Ash basses. There is nothing wrong with Ash IMO. It is just their educated opinion on things and I was asked for more detail so I provided it. People get super defensive about instruments here sometimes. lol. Im not attacking anyone's purchase. Trust me.
That 78 Jazz looks real nice. Awesome bass.
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@AngelCrusher
That's less than 1/4 of my whole bass collection. I was just showing my ash
That's less than 1/4 of my whole bass collection. I was just showing my ash
Thanks man! I don't want to derail this thread but I'd like to add a few pictures of my '78 natural heavy ash/rosewood fb. fender stratocaster guitar. Got her with the jazz bass the same day at the same store (manny's music, 48th st. times square) 38 years ago! Here she is:
what a lovely couple!
ps.sorry for the crappy cell phone pics.
I wasn't being defensive. I just wanted to know what you meant is all. I do know that some do get defensive at times, but I really simply wanted to know where you were coming from.
People use the term "quality" to mean many different things. And I've seen discussions fall apart because somebody can't/won't explain what they mean and both sides wind up on different pages. Thanks for clearing up what you meant for me.
Open, clear, communication is a great thing.
I think it's great and I'm super curious because of the price point. I'm curious how it would have sounded compared to say...a MIM Fender Jazz...which I have circa 1998...I have always been pleased with the sound I get from those stock pups and am curious if the tone is basically the same....I would probably shield the pups myself if that were the case cuz man...that price....just killer!!!!!!
Hey, $200 and some shipping and you can compare one directly, yourself. With 10 days to return it if you want.
And I did shield it. The single coil hum without it was fierce! Now it's usable with either pickup soloed.
I can't really tell answer your question because the closest thing I have to a MIM Jazz isn't very close - a fretless Jazz 4-string that I put together with a Warmoth body and Seymour Duncan pickups. I can say that I had a CIJ/MIJ (not sure now) Geddy Lee a few years ago and I sold it because I was just never very impressed with the stock pickups. For that matter, I've never been a big fan of single coil Jazz pickups at all, really. That's why I'm making this SX into a P/J with a hum-cancelling J in the bridge. I definitely prefer P and MM pickups to J pickups.
That said, I do think J pickups have their place, which is why I have my fretless J. And I like the East preamp that I put in this SX so much I may very well put another one in my fretless J at some point.
I happen to have a 2002 MIM Fender Jazz V as well as numerous SX jazz basses of various stripes. (some literally) What I can say is the following:
First is the body wood. All my SX basses are made from two or three pieces of nice ash or alder. My MIM Fender is made from about 12 sticks of alder glued together to make the body. (My Fender is burst) Wood grain and looks on the SX varies from bad match to boutique. The Fender in spite of being made of 12 glued sticks has killer looks because the top is covered with alder veneer so you don't see the sticks. As far as I can tell there is virtually ZERO difference between the SX three piece alder bodies and the 12 Fender glued alder sticks as far as sound and feel go. Note that this is NOT true of the difference between those basses and say my Squier PJ which has an agathis body (a type of pine) which I feel has a lesser cheaper feel though the tone is OK.
The MIM Fender came with "noiseless" pickups which I HATED (even though I hate single coil hum). Eventually I replaced those with SCN pickups that are humbuckers and still sound decent. The bass came alive! I have not replaced SX single coil pickups because they always seem to sound great. But I hate single coil hum and therefore tend to always run with both pickups on full to kill hum on the SX basses. I might consider some Nordies or the like on the SX to fix the hum but they are expensive so I haven't done it. SCNs seem discontinued by Fender. I did talk to Audere about their dummy coil preamp. Haven't got one yet. StuartV's dual P pickups are a great solution to the tone-hum problem! Of course this does involve routing which makes the mod more difficult and expensive.
My MIM Fender neck is VERY stable even without the carbon rods of the MIA necks. SX neck have also been very stable for me as well. However I HATE the profile on my Fender Jazz but LOVE the profile on all my SX necks.
I shield ALL my SX bass (and of course some single coil hum still comes through) and I'd note that the shielding in my Fender MIM only about half worked (Fenders are like that some times!) so I did the copper foil on the MIM too and it totally fixed it's hum problem as well (having humbucker jazz pickups).
That's about it. OK?
Appreciate the info. I've had high dollar basses before and have relegated myself to low dollar instruments as long as they feel good and sound reasonable. The 10 band graphic plus low and high boost on my Hartke 3500 should be able to help tone if it's not just plain crappy so its peaking my interest even more now.....I should nite I'm one of those players who abuses my stuff with a certain lacknif maintenance..... My jazz has strings on it at least 6 or 7 years old..lotta beer and sweat..but I still get my sound so why bother.....you see what I mean????
Hey, Tone is where you find it. If changing new strings every set gives you what you want, fine. If "aging' strings 6 or 7 years does it, that's fine too! (Personally, I'm more for the "aging" approach although for certain basses where I want a certain bright vibe, I have been known to give the strings periodic washes in strong solvents to keep that bright "edge" on them.)
SX basses are top of the line bar basses. I love them all! Sure you may need to tweak them in here and there rather than having them perfect out of the box, but they do come out of the box doing a LOT of the things you want! My SX basses do things and go places my Modulus for example can only dream about! (and vice versa of course!)
I took a few minutes to replace all the hardware on the headstock last night. You may notice that the B string is different than the rest. That is the stock B string. The Kalium I had put on it broke. They are sending me a replacement, so I put the stock one back on for now.
Stock tuners. 346g.
Gotoh GB350 Res-O-Lite tuners. 238g. 108g or 3.8 oz savings.
Stock tuner compared to GB350. The post on the stock one (left) is totally wimpy compared to the GB350.
The new tuners went on with no drilling - a drop-in replacement.
Stock tuners. 346g.
Gotoh GB350 Res-O-Lite tuners. 238g. 108g or 3.8 oz savings.
Stock tuner compared to GB350. The post on the stock one (left) is totally wimpy compared to the GB350.
The new tuners went on with no drilling - a drop-in replacement.
I spent some quality time with my drill press tonight and installed threaded inserts for the new bridge and the neck. And I put the Dunlop strap locks on (not using the drill press, of course).
The bridge was not quite as simple as it could have been. For one thing, the stock bridge is not mounted centered. The saddles on the stock bridge are not centered within the bridge, so the bridge itself is mounted slightly off center. Plus, when I talked to Kalium about the B string that broke, they had me take some measurements and told me that the stock bridge was mounted too close to the neck. They said to mount the new bridge so that string ball ends were 3/8" further from the neck. I think I did it all correctly. And I think it looks pretty good.
I couldn't put the neck back on because one of the threaded inserts stripped as I was trying to tighten it the last little bit. I think I didn't initially drill the hole quite deep enough. And I didn't buy any extra inserts
. So, I have to go to the hardware store tomorrow and buy one more threaded insert before I can put the neck back on. I did test fit it with the 3 inserts that are in and it appears to be all good on the fit.
All I'm really waiting on now is the Aguilar pickups to arrive so I can take it to the luthier and get the body routed for those.
The bridge was not quite as simple as it could have been. For one thing, the stock bridge is not mounted centered. The saddles on the stock bridge are not centered within the bridge, so the bridge itself is mounted slightly off center. Plus, when I talked to Kalium about the B string that broke, they had me take some measurements and told me that the stock bridge was mounted too close to the neck. They said to mount the new bridge so that string ball ends were 3/8" further from the neck. I think I did it all correctly. And I think it looks pretty good.
I couldn't put the neck back on because one of the threaded inserts stripped as I was trying to tighten it the last little bit. I think I didn't initially drill the hole quite deep enough. And I didn't buy any extra inserts
. So, I have to go to the hardware store tomorrow and buy one more threaded insert before I can put the neck back on. I did test fit it with the 3 inserts that are in and it appears to be all good on the fit.All I'm really waiting on now is the Aguilar pickups to arrive so I can take it to the luthier and get the body routed for those.
Stuart v, I had to relocate the bridge on my SX P/J fretless, it was too far back to intonate correctly. I have to agree with your comments regarding SX, the wood and finishing is top notch to me. One thing that would bug me on your bass is the the string retainers, i like the look but hate the spacing, i wish they were narrower.
Yeah, I got some regular Fender-style ones also. I wanted to try these, since other SX'ers had recommended them. But, I don't really like the look, so I will probably put something different on soon.
Coming along nicely Stu! I put some Gotohs on my Heir.. Good smooth tuners.... Did you consider putting inserts in the screw holes for the preamp as well? I imagine that taking it on and off a few times will kind of eat into the wood.
Thanks, Barry!
I had not really thought about the control cover, actually. I did the neck and bridge more to improve the coupling, since that could affect the sound. I was a bit surprised by the Hipshot bridge, actually. The stock bridge was held on by 6 screws. I expected the Hipshot to be held on by as many or more or at least beefier screws. But, the Hipshot is only 4 screws and they only look very slightly more beefy than the stock bridge screws. Seeing that definitely made me want to use the threaded inserts instead. It's still only 4 screws, but at least I can put some decent torque on them to tighten them down.
I am thinking I'm going to have the luthier rout it for a rear control cavity when he does the rout for the pickups. Assuming I do that, the front control plate should pretty much never have to come off, so the wood shouldn't get chewed up. Of course, if those holes do start to ever get stripped, I can always put inserts in then.
I'm leaving work soon to go by the hardware store for the last insert for the neck and get it back together so I can play it. I'm curious if I will be able to tell any difference with the new bridge and inserts.
I had not really thought about the control cover, actually. I did the neck and bridge more to improve the coupling, since that could affect the sound. I was a bit surprised by the Hipshot bridge, actually. The stock bridge was held on by 6 screws. I expected the Hipshot to be held on by as many or more or at least beefier screws. But, the Hipshot is only 4 screws and they only look very slightly more beefy than the stock bridge screws. Seeing that definitely made me want to use the threaded inserts instead. It's still only 4 screws, but at least I can put some decent torque on them to tighten them down.
I am thinking I'm going to have the luthier rout it for a rear control cavity when he does the rout for the pickups. Assuming I do that, the front control plate should pretty much never have to come off, so the wood shouldn't get chewed up. Of course, if those holes do start to ever get stripped, I can always put inserts in then.
I'm leaving work soon to go by the hardware store for the last insert for the neck and get it back together so I can play it. I'm curious if I will be able to tell any difference with the new bridge and inserts.
Finished up the threaded inserts tonight, replaced the string trees with Fender style ('cause I think they look better), put it back together, tuned, intonated, set the action, and gave it a bit of a play.
The action is currently at a buzz-free 0.065". That is 2/32" and that's at fret 12 and fret 20. I believe most people would consider that low or even very low. It could go even lower but there's a high fret somewhere around 18. I only get a buzz when I lower it and I fret at 17. I can fret at 16 or 18 and it is clean. I don't normally play up there. But, since it's okay low anyway, I raised it back up so it doesn't buzz anywhere. When I have the pickup routing done, I will get the frets leveled, too, and I should be able to get it down to around 0.040", I think, which is 1mm. That will be about as low as any bass I've owned. 1mm action is LOW.
It is just so awesome that a $200 bass can take action that low right out of the box!
I didn't play it all that much before, so it could just be my imagination. But, with the new bridge and re-worked neck joint, it kind of sounds like it has a little more thump (the best term I can come up with) in the attack. And maybe a tiny bit more clarity in the notes. Regardless, it sounds good (but not as good as I expect with the Aguilar P/J pickups!) and it plays great now.
Now I just need the new pickups to show up, so I can finish the tonal aspects of this project.
Then I can start planning when I'm going to pull the neck to strip it and oil it, and decide exactly what to do with the body. For the body, I'm think of getting it painted black burst with either some silver sparkle or small silver flake, so the grain will still show. With that, I would probably go with a White/Black/White pickguard and basically have it looking like a dressed up Geddy Lee bass.
Anyway, here are some pictures.
The action is currently at a buzz-free 0.065". That is 2/32" and that's at fret 12 and fret 20. I believe most people would consider that low or even very low. It could go even lower but there's a high fret somewhere around 18. I only get a buzz when I lower it and I fret at 17. I can fret at 16 or 18 and it is clean. I don't normally play up there. But, since it's okay low anyway, I raised it back up so it doesn't buzz anywhere. When I have the pickup routing done, I will get the frets leveled, too, and I should be able to get it down to around 0.040", I think, which is 1mm. That will be about as low as any bass I've owned. 1mm action is LOW.
It is just so awesome that a $200 bass can take action that low right out of the box!
I didn't play it all that much before, so it could just be my imagination. But, with the new bridge and re-worked neck joint, it kind of sounds like it has a little more thump (the best term I can come up with) in the attack. And maybe a tiny bit more clarity in the notes. Regardless, it sounds good (but not as good as I expect with the Aguilar P/J pickups!) and it plays great now.
Now I just need the new pickups to show up, so I can finish the tonal aspects of this project.
Then I can start planning when I'm going to pull the neck to strip it and oil it, and decide exactly what to do with the body. For the body, I'm think of getting it painted black burst with either some silver sparkle or small silver flake, so the grain will still show. With that, I would probably go with a White/Black/White pickguard and basically have it looking like a dressed up Geddy Lee bass.
Anyway, here are some pictures.
Finished up the threaded inserts tonight, replaced the string trees with Fender style ('cause I think they look better), put it back together, tuned, intonated, set the action, and gave it a bit of a play.
The action is currently at a buzz-free 0.065". That is 2/32" and that's at fret 12 and fret 20. I believe most people would consider that low or even very low. It could go even lower but there's a high fret somewhere around 18. I only get a buzz when I lower it and I fret at 17. I can fret at 16 or 18 and it is clean. I don't normally play up there. But, since it's okay low anyway, I raised it back up so it doesn't buzz anywhere. When I have the pickup routing done, I will get the frets leveled, too, and I should be able to get it down to around 0.040", I think, which is 1mm. That will be about as low as any bass I've owned. 1mm action is LOW.
It is just so awesome that a $200 bass can take action that low right out of the box!
I didn't play it all that much before, so it could just be my imagination. But, with the new bridge and re-worked neck joint, it kind of sounds like it has a little more thump (the best term I can come up with) in the attack. And maybe a tiny bit more clarity in the notes. Regardless, it sounds good (but not as good as I expect with the Aguilar P/J pickups!) and it plays great now.
Now I just need the new pickups to show up, so I can finish the tonal aspects of this project.
Then I can start planning when I'm going to pull the neck to strip it and oil it, and decide exactly what to do with the body. For the body, I'm think of getting it painted black burst with either some silver sparkle or small silver flake, so the grain will still show. With that, I would probably go with a White/Black/White pickguard and basically have it looking like a dressed up Geddy Lee bass.
Anyway, here are some pictures.
Wow! Project coming along nicely! That is looking positively Boo-teek!
We told you that neck inserts (and to a lesser extent a new bridge) will make the bass feel more solid and "expensive"! It's not imagination. There is a thread somewhere here where a TBer had before and after waveforms on an SX along with sound clips and you could easily see and hear the difference. To me the biggie is how it improves the FEEL of the bass. Yep really a worthwhile mod.
Funny. I can't say I notice any difference in feel. I did see the other thread with waveform analysis of the threaded insert mod. IIRC, I think he also determined that the overall output he was seeing was slightly lower with the threaded inserts. Seeing as how he wasn't using a robot to pluck the strings for that test I think it was really pretty inconclusive. The differences he saw seem to me that they could be explained by a slight difference in plucking hand position and/or how hard he plucked. Or how he was fretting the notes. Or all of the above.
All I can say is that, before, I kind of felt like the tone was just slightly "dull". And now, it seems like the tone is more sharp. As I said last night, a bit more thump on the attack and a bit more clarity in the notes. I think. For less than $10 worth of inserts and screws, and a couple of hours messing around with it, I definitely don't feel like I wasted my investment.
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