It's uncomfortable and inconvenient. I'm also 65, well-to-do, and can afford comfortable.
Riis
Riis
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throws my neck out something fierce due to an injury from long ago.
but i still don't have an answer to this: how does a 'grippy strap' prevent neck dive? won't the strap simply pull and twist your clothing as the neck continues to dive?
edit: thought of something to add ~ perhaps it has to do with comfortable playing position? i am 5' 10", and my 'default' position has the nut of the bass about 5.5 feet from the floor, with the bass at a bit more than a 45 degree angle. if one plays with the neck parallel to the floor, i can't imagine neck dive being much of an issue whatsoever. since this seems to be a 'default' position for many others, presumably including those who have no issue with neck dive, i am withdrawing the question.
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I with you. It isn’t an issue with me. I guess I’m just used to it.
I have a Gibson SG skinny string that has incredible neck dive and is a real PITA. I use the straps you described and it works on all my basses and guitars except that SG. Fortunately I don’t play much guitar anymore.
I have a Gibson SG skinny string that has incredible neck dive and is a real PITA. I use the straps you described and it works on all my basses and guitars except that SG. Fortunately I don’t play much guitar anymore.
Like someone else mentioned earlier in the thread, I have more pain in my neck and shoulders after playing a night on my lightweight bass with a slight neck-dive, than with a heavier bass with no neck-dive.
Seems to me that for people without other back-issues, balance is (should be) more important than weight.
IMO and YMMV, of course.
Seems to me that for people without other back-issues, balance is (should be) more important than weight.
IMO and YMMV, of course.
Then why not take one of the rubber feet or casters off your amp, and have to prop it up every time you use it, maybe let it tip over once in a while?
Makes as much sense as saying having to literally hold up the neck where I want it with my fretting hand and then also playing with that hand is no big deal.
Nope.
Makes as much sense as saying having to literally hold up the neck where I want it with my fretting hand and then also playing with that hand is no big deal.
Nope.
The gripping power of the strap will pull against your clothes and yes, it can pull a simple t shirt quite badly. If the strap was slippery underneath, then the bass will likely head for the floor faster.
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I mean, if you don't find neck dive to be a problem, that's great for you, bit it doesn't mean everyone else shares your feelings.
Warning people about neck dive in a product review, forum post or demo video is absolutely warranted. It allows everyone to make up their own mind about whether or not that's going to be a potential issue.
I generally don't have a huge issue with a bit of neck dive personally. That being said, the complete lack of any neck dive has definitely been a huge factor in my enjoyment of headless basses.
Not if you don't wear clothing.
After playing a bass with wild uncontrollable neck dive, I'm come to the conclusion that anyone arguing about this just has no idea how bad it can get. My main bass right now is 8.5 lbs, and has slight neck dive. I switched to a strap with some grip and the problem is totally solved, it doesn't bother me at all.
I have a 13 lbs 5 string thunderbird with the worst neck dive I've ever experienced. It will practically tear the shirt off you with a grippy strap.
Anyone who says neck dive is not a problem is welcome to come over here and strap it on with the stock strap button locations and try to play it for 3 hours.
I have a 13 lbs 5 string thunderbird with the worst neck dive I've ever experienced. It will practically tear the shirt off you with a grippy strap.
Anyone who says neck dive is not a problem is welcome to come over here and strap it on with the stock strap button locations and try to play it for 3 hours.
Neck dive is the #1 thing I look for when buying a bass. I have longer arms than most and like to wear a bass low. Spector Euros are my favorite and I have 4 of them. The 35" scale, upper horn only reaching the 14th fret, and coupled with lightweight tuners is the only bass I can play right now.
How low you wear your bass, how much you move on stage, and your practice routine will dramatically change your perception on neck dive. This is why some have never noticed neck dive.
How low you wear your bass, how much you move on stage, and your practice routine will dramatically change your perception on neck dive. This is why some have never noticed neck dive.
While I definitely prefer and now play a well/perfectly balanced bass, most of my gigging was done on a neck diver. It’s plenty doable but it’s just better when you don’t have to deal. Plus it just shows better/more thought put in to the instrument design. I wouldn’t deal with it now, among other things I wouldn’t settle for.
I had a thunderbird and it was VERY neck divey. The ergonomics of that bass would make my left arm go numb on a longer set. I had to switch to a neoprene padded strap to prevent that. We lived in the country back then, so I didn't have good access to internet and information, so the padded strap was the best I knew of. I'm glad you can play a Tbird comfortably. I still love the look, but I cant play one.
- Apr 18, 2008
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Yep. Grippy straps don’t solve neck dive. They just bring your shirt along for the ride.
It's 2023. CAD programs have been available for decades - anyone designing a bass can know, before they even build the first one, where the center of gravity is, and whether or not neck dive will be an issue. It's a simple problem with a very well known solution; anyone producing a bass (or guitar) nowadays with neck dive is being lazy. I have a small herd of 5 string basses - thicker necks, one more tuner, even an extra (relatively heavy) string -= lots of things that you would think would promote neck dive. All of them are under 7.75 pounds (one is 7.04) (light bodies are oftentouted as a source of neck dive) but.... they all balance just fine - you can jump up and down with your hands off the thing, and they won't move - no "grippy" strap needed. Proper design works.
When I was young, I had a couple neck divers. I was playing simple stuff, I was young, persistent, and didn't let anything get in my way - I just dealt with such things. Now I'm older, I play more complicated stuff, and I still don't let anything get in my way, but I do it by being smart enough to avoid things, not bullying my way through them. I've also had back surgery (and a hernia repair) - I don't need to "hit the gym" - lifting heavy things is how I got back and hernia issues. I'm older, I'm smarter, and neck dive is something I simply won't tolerate at this point.
I'm pretty sure the OP will agree with me - in a few decades.
When I was young, I had a couple neck divers. I was playing simple stuff, I was young, persistent, and didn't let anything get in my way - I just dealt with such things. Now I'm older, I play more complicated stuff, and I still don't let anything get in my way, but I do it by being smart enough to avoid things, not bullying my way through them. I've also had back surgery (and a hernia repair) - I don't need to "hit the gym" - lifting heavy things is how I got back and hernia issues. I'm older, I'm smarter, and neck dive is something I simply won't tolerate at this point.
I'm pretty sure the OP will agree with me - in a few decades.
Nothing like throwing your back out, but the way I see it is: why would I put up with an instrument that doesn't balance well, when there's so many other alternatives that do?
I don't like the 'grippy strap' solution, it just pulls my shirt.
If that works for you, awesome. It doesn't work for me. Same reason I won't play a heavy bass when there are alternatives. If you like heavy basses and neck dive, please, be my guest and have at it. I will play soemthing else.
I’ve never noticed this problem myself. But if I had to guess, I would say this is probably a bigger problem with people who spend most of their playing time sitting down.
It’s only a problem if it feels awkward or impedes the player’s ability to play comfortably. It seems that some players adapt, and others would prefer not to.
There is no right or wrong here…
Preference.
The same is true in the threads about bass weights and shake weights. We shouldn’t care about what other people think.
There is no right or wrong here…
Preference.
The same is true in the threads about bass weights and shake weights. We shouldn’t care about what other people think.
This.
I've got an Epi EB0. It's short scale so its neck dive is not as bad as the EB3, Thunderbirds etc, but it's there. I replaced the tuners with Hipshot Ultralites, and chose the mini-clover tuner, which is a bit lighter still. Absolutely zero neck dive and beautiful to play. To put those massive and heavy tuners in this kind of bass is just silly.
Neck Dive or even slightly neck heavy is one of my pet-peeves.
I will do whatever I can (modify) to eliminate it on a trouble bass or find one that doesn't have it.
It is indeed an issue for some and I agree- who cares what other people think ?
I will do whatever I can (modify) to eliminate it on a trouble bass or find one that doesn't have it.
It is indeed an issue for some and I agree- who cares what other people think ?
