Neck dive... why is it a problem?

[KidAmnesia]

Let's face it, all of the issues we discuss on this forum (and any other gear forum) are the first world problems of the bass world.

Neck dive? It can be annoying and it's nicer if it's not there, but doesn't render a bass unplayable. Weight? I like lightweight basses, but it's not like a heavy bass is that different; judging from what people say here you might think 7 pounds is what a feather weights and 10 pounds is a boat anchor. Blemishes? Fit and finish? You can play it just fine. Intonation and set up? Come on, you can't hear the difference unless you listen to it isolated through studio monitors. Deadspots? You can work arround them. Tone? Don't get me started.

There are plenty of basses that cost almost nothing and can be played and sound like a bass and any problem they might have can be solved. But if I'm going to be paying a lot more than what a decent bass costs, I'd expect it to sound great, be set up perfectly right out of the box, have no deadspots, no blemishes, be lightweight and yes, well balanced too.

 

[mcnach]

It definitely seems like an issue that's way overblown by internet "experts"

Ah, got it, I only dislike it because I read it on the webz...

 

[bucephylus]

I sing, both lead on some tunes and backup on others. There are times when I am at the mic clapping the backbeats. Basses which rotate while I am clapping are distracting, and they just aren’t there when I return to playing the bass parts.

This bass is particularly in that classification, even though I use a 4 1/2” strap with it.

Of course, that is such an amazing sounding instrument, that I just live with the issue. But, good thing it has such a generous lower bout strap button.

This issue is player specific. If the player does no singing or clapping, there may be no issue. The point is that neck dive is NOT a one-size-fits-all characteristic. Some players will care more than others. That about all there is to say about it.

OTOH, in characteristic TB tribal fashion, it’s fodder for the endless debates. Carry on.

 

[Lucas Carioli]

Playing a diving bass for any length of time is frustrating and tiring. [2]

 

[Killing Floor]

As an engineer it’s hard to fathom that an established factory with (industrial, mechanical, electrical) engineers on staff can’t calculate center of mass.

It’s really not that they can’t, but that they cannot change the design because the aesthetic is a sacred cow.

Neck dive has never been a huge deal to me but I totally understand it and depending how you play and where you hold the instrument it can be better or worse.

I use a strap, even when seated. I have one bass that dives straight over seated but not standing because of how the body is cut. Any strap resolves that. Another has a rosewood neck which is a heavier moment arm than the standard maple neck. I don’t like wide straps.

On my one dive master (Fender P with 1 pc rosewood neck) I use a Fender branded strap lock only on the front position. It offsets the strap 3/4” in front of the horn and that solves it.

 

[Cleezmo]

One of my basses has a bit of neck dive, and my shoulder and neck feel it more (soreness, I mean) after a gig if I play that bass than if I play one of my others. I use a 4" strap on all my basses, but the difference in fatigue factor for 5'7" me is real. I wouldn't say it necessarily makes my playing worse, but it's more of a workout, I guess. I can play one of my other similar weight basses that don't dive and not have that shoulder/neck soreness, so for me, neck dive does have an impact.

IMO, stating that those of us who think neck dive has an impact only say/think so just because we read about it on the internet is just silly. My experience is from band rehearsals and gigs, not living room practice. Just because you don't feel it, doesn't mean others don't.

 

[drumvsbass]

Because using left hand energy to hold the neck up subtly changes the way I play for the worse. I liken it to a drummer playing without a rug. Sure, you can make it work, but all the energy put into stopping or re-calibrating for the sliding kit takes away from the actual playing.

This is exactly it. However, if the player is only banging out 8th notes with a pick, and the bass is slung around their knees, I don't think 'proper technique' is on their mind.

 

[Taustin Powers]

that is the exact opposite of my personal experience.

i still don't understand...doesn't the twisting force simply get transferred to clothing? won't a shirt (i assume we're mostly wearing shirts ...) get twisted and bunched up? it's not like gravity ceases to exist--how does a grippy strap actually work?

That is actually my exact experience with a "grippy" strap I tried on my 1994 Thumb bass. It would still dive just as much, but it would make my T-Shirt look all crumbled and distorted in the process.

 

[SteveCS]

It definitely seems like an issue that's way overblown by internet "experts"

Have you considered the possibility that some of these folks are also very experienced players that have been at it for longer than the internet has been around and that they might actually have a wealth of invaluable real-world experience?

 

[claudel]

It is a matter of mind over matter.

If you don't mind, it doesn't matter...

 

[Burwabit]

My girl tells me it happens to all bass players, occasionally.

 

[micguy]

If you have imagined yourself being able to let go with both hands and have no dive, then it would be a major disappointment to have dive. Thankfully, you can still get a steinberger

Even if a Steinberger balances, the strap button is still not in a good location - they have a reach problem - the 1st fret is way out there.

 

[micguy]

My girl tells me it happens to all bass players, occasionally.

That's quite an authoritative statement - how many bass players has she.....sampled?

 

[Burwabit]

That's quite an authoritative statement - how many bass players has she.....sampled?

we are, on average, the tallest guys in the band

 

[Turnaround]

I have a bass with significant neck dive. But I never even thought about it until I heard people complain about it. For me it's not a big deal and it doesn't hamper my playing at all - I play that bas as well and as easily as any of my other basses that have no neck dive. Or perhaps more accurately, I play it with the same level of difficulty - bass ain't easy.

 

[RoadieP]

Have you considered the possibility that some of these folks are also very experienced players that have been at it for longer than the internet has been around and that they might actually have a wealth of invaluable real-world experience?

In the decades I've been playing, I've found most of these "issues" are just people looking for things to complain about and blowing things out of proportion

 

[Altitude]

Neck dive is one of those things I didn't know or care about before I found this forum, along with scale length and nut width. Not saying those aren't all things. They just aren't things of concern to me.

I've never encountered neck dive as an issue, but I think I know why - compared to some players I hold my bass higher and in a relatively horizontal position, and I rest my right forearm on the body, see below. I think the weight I naturally apply with my right arm keeps the neck from diving.

Not saying I'm doing it "right" or that my solution should work for everyone. This is just the reason I've never noticed the issue.

 

[ga_edwards]

Various reasons. The worst was my old Warwick Thumb. It got to the point that it left me in physical pain in my shoulder and back for a few days after every gig. It wasn't just the poor weight distribution that caused the pain, but having to literally hold the neck up whilst playing (and it didn't help having a small body and massive neck with the nut situated in the next postcode).

I tried a wide grippy strap but all it did was twist my clothing - even more uncomfortable. I knew about other strap designs, but I didn't want to look a pratt wearing a two-shoulder braces solution. And threading the strap through a belt look is simply ridiculous IMHO. As for adding weights, why on earth would I want to add more weight to a heavy bass?

I won't even entertain the idea of buying a bass that won't balance anymore. It's simply not worth the pain.

 

[4stringfarley]

Its not like these headstock weigh 15 pounds

laughs in peavey t40.

neck dive never bothered me until I started playing basses that don’t have it. Now it annoys me in the same sense as having my boxers slightly twisted does.

 

[groove pump]

The biggest issue I've found after playing a 10.5 lb. neck-diver for a lot of years is that the bad balance concentrates much more of the weight at the front edge of my shoulder. Even with a strap as wide as a doormat, that's a recipe for some pain after a few hours of schlepping a hefty bass with bad balance.

Managing a hefty bass with bad balance also makes me get more "stuck" in one spot when playing a gig instead of moving around and having more fun. When I eventually picked up a 9.0 lb. bass with good balance and gigged it, my playing experience was completely different. Finishing a gig without a throbbing shoulder?... Priceless!!

I can't say whether my technique is compromised by that neck-dive, but I'm definitely a happier player when my shoulder isn't barking at me...