Neck dive... why is it a problem?

[pbass2]

I don't mind a little dive, but would choose a heavier bass that hangs well over a lighter one that dives. Neck dive is causing you to tense your body and tweak your body mechanics in an unbalanced way. Can lead to aches and pains down the road, and it might not even manifest itself where you'd think, like your strap shoulder.

 

[JimmyM]

I'm no stranger to neck dive. My first bass was a neck-divey Thunderbird and of the 6 basses I own currently, 3 or 4 of them are quite neck-divey. My solution to this was a leather/suede strap that I got for $8 at a pawn shop a long time ago. The strap is slightly wider than normal at 2.25'', but is otherwise not as potentially intrusive as a massively wide or thick strap. I get zero neck dive in any situation when using it.

But a line I occasionally hear is... "grippy straps are a band-aid, what you really need is a balanced bass".

... why?

I mean... I guess I could see the novelty in a bass that feels well-balanced. I own a couple. But with my bass-playing habits, neck dive simply isn't a problem that concerns me. Even when I practice and am not using the strap, it's really more of a minor inconvenience than an issue of any import.

Is there something I'm missing? Can a divey neck throw your back out, or something crazy like that?

If it isn’t bothering you, then who cares what anyone else thinks?

 

[alex1fly]

Your left hand moves up and down the neck easier without it

This is the best answer

Straps help while standing but not sitting

A bit of neck dive is fine but there is a point where it impedes your playing

 

[Lowendtech]

I don’t buy shoes that are uncomfortable or that make me walk in an unnatural way.
I won’t buy a bed if it’s not comfortable to sleep in.
I don’t buy I’ll fitting clothes.
If an instrument doesn’t hang where I want it to, I move on.
I’ve had exactly one T-bird on a strap hang off me for all of 30 seconds and I’ll never have to do that again.
I like to be able to let go of the neck and find it right where I left it.
I also have a wonky back and shoulder and won’t do anything over 9lbs. Ymmv.

 

[logdrum]

A bass that is truly balanced, means that you can have it sit on your tigh and it sits there - no tilt toward the bridge, and no tilt toward the headstock. I never owned one and the closest I have held with my hands is a Kiesel headless when I visited their shop. The other I've seen in the interwebs is Bass the World's Gregor's Adamovic 4 string and I think he was balancing it with 2 fingers.

Some basses have heavier bodies and counteracts the neck dive

 

[mikeswals]

Leather straps tug my shirt forward and back as I move... nothing drives me more nuts than my shirts being pulled as I play and move around, I truly hate it.

 

[RevOgre]

FWIW in my case is a bad shoulder. It aggravates it when I have to support the neck. The heavier the bass and more exaggerated the dive the more it hurts.

 

[FRoss6788]

A bass that is truly balanced, means that you can have it sit on your tigh and it sits there - no tilt toward the bridge, and no tilt toward the headstock. I never owned one and the closest I have held with my hands is a Kiesel headless when I visited their shop. The other I've seen in the interwebs is Bass the World's Gregor's Adamovic 4 string and I think he was balancing it with 2 fingers.

Some basses have heavier bodies and counteracts the neck dive

Hmm...

I really only consider balance as in how the bass hangs on a strap. My plucking arm is usually resting on the bass when I'm playing seated. YMMV

No interest in a bass that doesn't hang nicely on a strap. Not going to spend my money on a poorly designed instrument.

 

[DavidG]

Leather straps tug my shirt forward and back as I move... nothing drives me more nuts than my shirts being pulled as I play and move around, I truly hate it.

I agree, but I love leather straps. They look good and last forever. A lot (most?) have suede or nubuck backing which is grippy. I guess it is supposed to keep the bass from moving around but it does tug on your shirt which can be distracting.
Leather straps with smooth leather backing don't pull your shirt. If the bass is well balanced it won't slide around.

 

[E2942]

If not a problem for people who play 22 minutes at a time.

 

[Mark Karwan]

If the strap manages the issue and it doesn't distract you, that's great!

 

[superheavyfunk]

Is there something I'm missing? Can a divey neck throw your back out, or something crazy like that?

Everybody’s musculature and physiology is different. Add to that, everybody on this forum has different personal needs when it comes to playing the bass. Myself, I need to wear a bass for about 12-14 hours a week and that’sa lot more than many around here. When I used to play a fender precision, I developed a severe pinched nerve in my shoulder due to the weight of both the bass itself and in particular, the weight of the headstock aka neck dive. It was constantly pulling my shoulder down which caused my neck and shoulder muscles on to develop an imbalance and I had to counter that weight by holding the neck up. I was in so much pain that I had to stop playing entirely for three months which ate up my savings as I couldn’t work aka play gigs.

So for me personally, neck dive is truly not something I can deal with for any reason. For others, it may just be a preference. I consider you lucky that you have the option to think of neck dive as a non-issue.

 

[Jay2U]

Well balanced basses mostly have a short headstock, a heavy body or both. The body of my G&L weighs a lot, so no problem there. The cheap Chinese P-Bass, on the other hand, wanted to be upsidedown. I mitigated this by putting some lead in the cavity. Repositioning of the strap button is another possibility.

 

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

I'm no stranger to neck dive. My first bass was a neck-divey Thunderbird and of the 6 basses I own currently, 3 or 4 of them are quite neck-divey. My solution to this was a leather/suede strap that I got for $8 at a pawn shop a long time ago. The strap is slightly wider than normal at 2.25'', but is otherwise not as potentially intrusive as a massively wide or thick strap. I get zero neck dive in any situation when using it.

But a line I occasionally hear is... "grippy straps are a band-aid, what you really need is a balanced bass".

... why?

I mean... I guess I could see the novelty in a bass that feels well-balanced. I own a couple. But with my bass-playing habits, neck dive simply isn't a problem that concerns me. Even when I practice and am not using the strap, it's really more of a minor inconvenience than an issue of any import.

Is there something I'm missing? Can a divey neck throw your back out, or something crazy like that?

Had all P-bass been “divey” I would have dove with them anyway …

 

[singlemalt]

My 12 lb plus, neck diving Kramer 450b aluminum neck was a torture device. It just hurt.

Compensating for neck dive involves both holding the neck up or weighting the body with the right arm. Constant readjustments. Why twist your self into a knot when you are trying to play?

 

[bigdaddybass12]

My Hipshots & Gotohs were purchased some years ago and I know prices have increased but comfort is my crack and I'll pay the price not to hold that damn neck all night.

I have been looking at a set of hipshots for my ray4. No issues with the oem, but it would be an upgrade! Eventually the upgrades will exceed the original cost!

 

[RissKippery]

A few years ago I put a 2”x4” strip of the soft side of velcro on every one of my straps, right around where it touches my shoulder. I stuck a piece of the rough velcro about the same size on every one of my shirts. Now, no matter what bass, strap, or shirt I choose, no divey.

 

[ThudThudThud]

I agree, but I love leather straps. They look good and last forever. A lot (most?) have suede or nubuck backing which is grippy. I guess it is supposed to keep the bass from moving around but it does tug on your shirt which can be distracting.
Leather straps with smooth leather backing don't pull your shirt. If the bass is well balanced it won't slide around.

I made my own from a strip of 4"-ish wide leather from a leather working store. Oiled and softened, and cut to exact length (for FSOs), and then drilled/cut holes for strap buttons. Doesn't slip at all. No buckles or adjusters to worry about. Leather is thick enough to be a tight fit on the strap buttons too, so no need for strap locks.

 

[mikewalker]

I don't like the wide grippy strap option, as grippy just pulls on my clothing, and wider straps annoy my collarbone!
But there are various real workarounds. I was able to fix the neck-diviest bass in existence (Kramer Aluminum-neck "Vanguard" Flying V!) by simply placing an ordinary strap over the top V.

 

[micguy]

Obviously it doesn't bother a lot of people, or Gibson wouldn't still be making and selling them.

If you think about that statement for a few seconds, the realization might come to you that another big bass building company (who's designs don't neck dive) outsells Gibson by a very wide margin. You might also realize that there are lots of companies that copy that other company's designs, and very few that copy Gibson's.