Neck dive...

[MojoPenguin]

Half of the time spent on "here", could be spent exercising, and practicing.

Well I'm at work slacking when I check Talkbass most of the time, so I guess no

 

[blue4]

Its possible that impressionable new bassists visiting talk bass see a bunch of neck dive complaining and then think they can't play their bass well due to neck dive because cost was a design compromise.

Or its possible that those new bassists will have a bit more info on their bass purchases, no different than info on strings or an amp, or letting them know an active bass requires batteries. In my view, I'm not a paid endorser of Epiphone so I wouldn't hide the fact that my EB0 or the viola I had were not as balanced as other basses.

 

[mongo2]

Yes Extreme nit-picking and I find I have the same experience as you.

I have owned over 40 very different electric basses in the last 25 years. Most of them were inexpensive second hand instruments. Not one of them did I ever perceive neck dive to be a problem. I have never ever felt there was burden of supporting the weight of the bass in my left hand. I have never experienced resistance to having full capability in technique precision or speed anywhere on the neck because I felt I was having to support any bass guitar by the neck.

I'm guessing that if someone points out imbalance, identifies it as neck dive and that person focuses on that as an important criterium for bass design, then that person will get hung up on that issue. Possibly becoming over sensitive to it and not recognizing how easy it is to fix and or adapt.

There is nothing wrong with someone wanting a balanced bass. And when someone is buying a nice bass, I hope they get the one they like best for whatever reasons that they like it!

However since this thread is here I'll throw my 2 cents in. Normally I'll look past the neck dive nit-pickers in the same way I don't recognize the neck dive issue itself. I know it may be there but I just ignore it. This thread gives me a chance to focus on my perceptions and nit-pick the nit-pickers.
I see comments on talk bass from people that perceive neck dive from a picture or one encounter in a store and make a fuss about it here on talk bass. I instantly believe their reasoning is out of balance. That their opinion is too heavily based on a desire to portray that they have some special insight about bass design and not on actual experience of adaptability to variety and observations of other good qualities of many instruments suffering from neck dive. They seem to be the same people who complain that a bass came from the factory with high action and bad intonation and write off the instrument as flawed without asking someone to adjust the truss-rod and bridge. These nit-pickers suffer from perception dive. They could probably benefit from a full setup and adjustment of their perceptions of instrument design.

I think it is important to be versatile. To be able to switch between scale length, string spacing, 4 5 or 6 string, hollowbody, solid body, and instruments with different balance points, is a valuable asset as a bassist. You never know what tool you might need to use. To me the neck dive nit-pickers seem too rigid in their perceptions to adapt to the varying tools and demands of bass playing. Thats alright, I guess it means more basses and gigs for us non-nit-pickers to choose from.

LOL. Feel better now?

I simply get more enjoyment playing a lightweight balanced bass rather than an unbalanced one. That's all there is to it.

 

[saabfender]

Until I came to TB, I'd never heard of "neck dive." That's probably because I don't play poorly-designed bass guitars.

 

[JRA]

but there has to be SOME

not really. instruments with no dive means they have "no dive." the fretting hand does not have to support the neck. that's what "no dive" means.

Violinists don't seem to be slowed down.

violins weigh, on average, less than a pound and they are held in place by the chin.

 

[scotch]

Sire. Th

not really. instruments with no dive means they have "no dive." the fretting hand does not have to support the neck. that's what "no dive" means.

violins weigh, on average, less than a pound and they are held in place by the chin.

Of course! That's why I. Curious how much weight folks are getting bogged down with considering the strap/button/forearm lever situation of a guitar strapped on. It's not like you have to support all 8-10 lbs of your bass with your fretting hand.

 

[fcleff]

喜歡脖子潛水的夫妻是幸福的一對。

 

[Watchootognbout]

A big wide grippy strap + a neck-diver is still going to pull your shirt all funny.

No.
Not really.
Both ends of the strap pull straight down on your shoulder.
Not forward.

We're not talking about a 20 lb bass!

 

[Watchootognbout]

Sire. Th


Of course! That's why I. Curious how much weight folks are getting bogged down with considering the strap/button/forearm lever situation of a guitar strapped on. It's not like you have to support all 8-10 lbs of your bass with your fretting hand.

You don't need to bear all of the basses weight to activate tension in the forearm.
No one gets"Bogged down"You're exaggerating.

It's just easier to do quick,fluid movements when your hand is floating,Not doing double duty.

 

[mongo2]

not really. instruments with no dive means they have "no dive." the fretting hand does not have to support the neck. that's what "no dive" means.

violins weigh, on average, less than a pound and they are held in place by the chin.

Exactly, my son is a violinist and often removes his left hand from the violin leaving it held in place by his chin.

 

[mongo2]

喜歡脖子潛水的夫妻是幸福的一對。

Google translation:

Couples who like neck diving are happy couples

 

[mongo2]

Not at all the case in any way shape or form. Since we were on the subject of neck dive I shared my thoughts about instrument design and bass playing and bassists perceptions in relation to that.
NO Insults intended towards anyone veiled or otherwise.

I'm calling shenanigans due to the denigrating tone of your ranting first post which was also littered with insulting name calling as well as misplaced assumptions and accusations.

 

[Danielle Meyer]

I'm calling shenanigans due to the denigrating tone of your ranting first post which was also littered with insulting name calling as well as misplaced assumptions and accusations.

You wanna know what I think of that?

I WAS ranting and I DID become insulting. My apologies to the people who experience neck dive. I did not at the time believe I was insulting, only pointing out my perceptions. And I do totally understand when someone discounts or tries to invalidate my point of view. That sucks.
I'm not walking back my perceptions of balance, adaptability, and versatility. But I do wish to take back the generalizations I made about people who don't want to deal with basses they find unsuitable and look to TB to voice their frustration. That was crap that is now easily visible after some sleep. I only have the excuses that I couldn't sleep and was replying at 4 am. I don't drink so I cant even blame it on alcohol. I do occasionally over explain my views on stuff.

I could have just said, I don't seem to be bothered by neck dive and that a little weight in the hand doesn't bother me.

Anyway, Sorry, carry on the debate, and I'll happily carry my heavy neck around.

 

[Marc DLarosa]

Yes Extreme nit-picking and I find I have the same experience as you.

I have owned over 40 very different electric basses in the last 25 years. Most of them were inexpensive second hand instruments. Not one of them did I ever perceive neck dive to be a problem. I have never ever felt there was burden of supporting the weight of the bass in my left hand. I have never experienced resistance to having full capability in technique precision or speed anywhere on the neck because I felt I was having to support any bass guitar by the neck.

I'm guessing that if someone points out imbalance, identifies it as neck dive and that person focuses on that as an important criterium for bass design, then that person will get hung up on that issue. Possibly becoming over sensitive to it and not recognizing how easy it is to fix and or adapt.

There is nothing wrong with someone wanting a balanced bass. And when someone is buying a nice bass, I hope they get the one they like best for whatever reasons that they like it!

However since this thread is here I'll throw my 2 cents in. Normally I'll look past the neck dive nit-pickers in the same way I don't recognize the neck dive issue itself. I know it may be there but I just ignore it. This thread gives me a chance to focus on my perceptions and nit-pick the nit-pickers.
I see comments on talk bass from people that perceive neck dive from a picture or one encounter in a store and make a fuss about it here on talk bass. I instantly believe their reasoning is out of balance. That their opinion is too heavily based on a desire to portray that they have some special insight about bass design and not on actual experience of adaptability to variety and observations of other good qualities of many instruments suffering from neck dive. They seem to be the same people who complain that a bass came from the factory with high action and bad intonation and write off the instrument as flawed without asking someone to adjust the truss-rod and bridge. These nit-pickers suffer from perception dive. They could probably benefit from a full setup and adjustment of their perceptions of instrument design.

I think it is important to be versatile. To be able to switch between scale length, string spacing, 4 5 or 6 string, hollowbody, solid body, and instruments with different balance points, is a valuable asset as a bassist. You never know what tool you might need to use. To me the neck dive nit-pickers seem too rigid in their perceptions to adapt to the varying tools and demands of bass playing. Thats alright, I guess it means more basses and gigs for us non-nit-pickers to choose from.

That's what I said...

 

[GIBrat51]

How big a deal is it? Well...
As you've probably figured out by now, it's a very, very Big deal to lots of people. And, to some of us (me included), not so much. To me, it's one of those "it just depends" things. I have 23-24 basses (I forget), and to be honest, you're looking at the only one (the Kramer Lumie) that I consider a "Neck Diver". The others - like my 2 Ricks, or my 2 (cough)T-Birds- are either completely neutral (hanging off MY shoulder, anyway), or, like the middle one there (Rogue VB-100) they have what I call "A slight forward bias, weight-wise".. The Kramer's neck is like holding a large, cast-iron skillet at arms length; and it will actually try very hard to pull my shirt off over my head if I let go of it. That's "Neck Dive"... The Rogue's neck is about like holding up an Egg McMuffin. That's "Slight forward weight bias". Not ideal, but.. AFAIC, not all that big a deal, either. If it is to you? Well.. you have my sympathy... However; if you want to try something that's really annoying? I give you the last one in line - a Kramer Duke. Mine is actually slightly butt-heavy; try playing while holding your bass's neck down sometime...

 

[CentralCoastBass]

Isn't talkbass great?

 

[Marc DLarosa]

View attachment 3158343 View attachment 3158344 View attachment 3158346 How big a deal is it? Well...
As you've probably figured out by now, it's a very, very Big deal to lots of people. And, to some of us (me included), not so much. To me, it's one of those "it just depends" things. I have 23-24 basses (I forget), and to be honest, you're looking at the only one (the Kramer Lumie) that I consider a "Neck Diver". The others - like my 2 Ricks, or my 2 (cough)T-Birds- are either completely neutral (hanging off MY shoulder, anyway), or, like the middle one there (Rogue VB-100) they have what I call "A slight forward bias, weight-wise".. The Kramer's neck is like holding a large, cast-iron skillet at arms length; and it will actually try very hard to pull my shirt off over my head if I let go of it. That's "Neck Dive"... The Rogue's neck is about like holding up an Egg McMuffin. That's "Slight forward weight bias". Not ideal, but.. AFAIC, not all that big a deal, either. If it is, well.. you have my sympathy... However; if you want to try something that's really annoying? I give you the last one in line - a Kramer Duke. Mine is actually slightly butt-heavy; try playing while holding your bass's neck down sometime...

Here is my idea for my next posting...
What kitchenware, and fast food product reminds you most of your bass...? I LOVE IT!!!

 

[Altitude]

I didn’t know about neck dive until I began reading this board, at which point I’d been playing bass for 25 years.

I believe it mainly affects guys who wear their basses low, with the neck pointing upward. I tend to wear a bit higher with the neck closer to horizontal, and with my right forearm pushing downward on the instrument, which probably cancels any neck dive effect. Like this:

Not saying I’m right or wrong as much as explaining why neck dive never occurred to me until I read about it here.

 

[lug]

I didn’t know about neck dive until I began reading this board, at which point I’d been playing bass for 25 years.

I believe it mainly affects guys who wear their basses low, with the neck pointing upward. I tend to wear a bit higher with the neck closer to horizontal, and with my right forearm pushing downward on the instrument, which probably cancels any neck dive effect. Like this:

View attachment 3190766

Not saying I’m right or wrong as much as explaining why neck dive never occurred to me until I read about it here.

Having your upper horn go to the twelve fret will pretty much guarantee no neck dive.

 

[Altitude]

Having your upper horn go to the twelve fret will pretty much guarantee no neck dive.

For sure, but that’s the only bass I have that’s like that.