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neck dive

Not sure what to tell you. I've owned dozens of basses in the 40 years I've played. None has ever had neck dive. Not because I'm selective about the weight geometry of the basses I play, but because I wear them in a way that neck dive doesn't occur.

It's fine that you don't want to wear your bass horizontally, no judgment. By wearing it vertically you create neck dive as a problem for yourself.

A problem you avoid is a problem you don't have to solve, but maybe taking all variables into account vertical is the right approach for you.

I'm not at all trained in physics, but wouldn't the neck being more vertical be less prone to neck dive compared to a full horizontal bass? At least in my dumb brain, I would think a horizontal bass would have more downward force on the headstock compared to if it was more vertical, no?
 
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I'm not at all trained in physics, but wouldn't the neck being more vertical be less prone to neck dive compared to a full horizontal bass? At least in my dumb brain, I would think a horizontal bass would have more downward force on the headstock compared to if it was more vertical, no?
I think so. But when you hold it horizontally you end up resting your right forearm on the bass body, which counterbalances the weight. Like Zender here:

1746825730899.jpeg
 
Not sure what to tell you. I've owned dozens of basses in the 40 years I've played. None has ever had neck dive. Not because I'm selective about the weight geometry of the basses I play, but because I wear them in a way that neck dive doesn't occur.

It's fine that you don't want to wear your bass horizontally, no judgment. By wearing it vertically you create neck dive as a problem for yourself.

A problem you avoid is a problem you don't have to solve, but maybe taking all variables into account vertical is the right approach for you.
Not vertical or horizontal.
About 45-50 degrees.
 
I think so. But when you hold it horizontally you end up resting your right forearm on the bass body, which counterbalances the weight. Like Zender here:

View attachment 7222666

Yeah, I can see how resting your forearm on the bass like that would help counter act some neck dive too. So basically what I believe you're saying is that there is not only specific factors of the gear which contribute to neck dive, but also other factors such as how you hold your bass (more vertical vs horizontal), how you brace it with your plucking hand arm, how low or high you let the bass hang, etc. And this basically just explains why some people don't find neck dive to be a problem and some do I guess.
 
Yeah, I can see how resting your forearm on the bass like that would help counter act some neck dive too. So basically what I believe you're saying is that there is not only specific factors of the gear which contribute to neck dive, but also other factors such as how you hold your bass (more vertical vs horizontal), how you brace it with your plucking hand arm, how low or high you let the bass hang, etc. And this basically just explains why some people don't find neck dive to be a problem and some do I guess.
Well said!
 
I've owned many basses, a Ampeg AEB-1, Ibanez Musician, Fender Jazz, G&L 1,000 Godin Acoustibass, et. al.. I currently own two Lakland 55-94's and a Fender Precision. They've all had some neck dive to a greater or lesser degree. Starting with the Ibanez all my basses used a McIntosh Double Comfort strap. Now a Gruv Gear Duo Strap, solves the stomach.
 
That is certainly true. Yet, the people who prefer to wear their basses vertically will experience neck dive and the ones who prefer to wear them horizontally will not.
A Warwick Thumb and a 1970's Gibson RD have neck dive, even when worn horizontally. Most of my basses have zero neck dive, whether I wear them horizontally or vertically.
 
As a bassist since 1969 all I can say about neck dive is this.

It's a bass and has a long neck with heavier tuners. So, yeah it's going to have some amount of neck dive. Just get a wide strap and play the bass. If you try wearing it in different positions, you'll find one that's comfy to play and will have little to no dive. Well, it might if it's a Gibson LOL.

Also, the only place where I constantly hear players complaining about and who seem overly concerned about neck dive is here on TalkBass.
 
i've used that strategy/hack for two of my axes that still needed some help after the usual methods (lightweight tuning machines, type of strap, etc.). it has helped/worked on those two instruments.

neck dive inhibits the best playing, but i don't think some folks believe that.
there's always somebody claiming their thunderbirds don't neck dive, or that neck dive is subjective, or that it doesn't matter, and I'm always like
1746836713356.png

balance is a thing that is objectively real, and some basses balance objectively better than others

I think guys who grip the neck when they play probably don't notice or care, and if a wide strap works for ya, have fun wit it :DI'll make sure a bass balances on a strap before I buy it
 
there's always somebody claiming their thunderbirds don't neck dive, or that neck dive is subjective, or that it doesn't matter, and I'm always like
View attachment 7222803
balance is a thing that is objectively real, and some basses balance objectively better than others

I think guys who grip the neck when they play probably don't notice or care, and if a wide strap works for ya, have fun wit it :DI'll make sure a bass balances on a strap before I buy it

Nahhh, my Thunderbird doesn't neck dive because I moved the strap button. Also my Thunderbird sounds better than any bass you own. That is objectively real.
 
There's an EBO I saw (on this forum I think?) where they went so far as to add the strap button to the front of the bass above the bridge.
If you try adding the strap button to the same position but to the back where no one can see it, the bass folds away from you towards the audience on your neck side. Just a few degrees but noticeable to me.

I've done it on my cheap Ibanez, and regret not putting it like in the video, on the edge of the body where it normally goes.

If you look at some fancy headless models with cut aways around the bridge, they can't put the strap button dead centre. They often have it north of the bridge, on the edge of the instrument.
 
Spector basses have that offset strap button, but their compact bodies, bridge placement, and stubby upper horns STILL made them ergonomic nightmares for me. They balanced too horizontally and the necks jutted out too far to the left, making the money notes feel a million miles away. It was especially worse on this one 35" scale Spector 5-string I used to own.

Moral of the story- offset strap button can help, provided the other ergonomic factors are in place. And that is also why it's important to "try a bass on" before buying, like when you try on clothes. After all, a Calvin Klein L feels like a Nautica M.
 
The thing with this conversation is that we're trying to all give general advice to what really should be an individualized solution tailored to each player as everyone's body is different. While let's say fishing weights in the control cavity and grippy straps could be the solution for one player, at the end of the day for others it might as well be a bandaid solution that leads them to further struggle with their instrument. It doesn't help that everyone's going to have different definitions on what neck dive is, as there's no agreed upon definition based on all the threads made. My own definition is that anything that can't be kept at a player's desired angle (including above 45 degrees) without it moving or tipping forward is neck dive. I am aware this rules out most basses, by this works for me as a player.

On the topic of horizontal vs vertical I remember having a similar conversation with a coworker. He claimed his basses he owned, never had any neck dive, but when I played them strapped at the height that is advised to most players (same as when you're sitting down, but slightly lower), some had horrible dove. he explained to me that he had his basses strapped up as high as possible like a necklace. So he never noticed the issues, so I can attest it's something certain players can and do go their playing careers without giving much thought.

I'll always post this thread made on seven string.com that speaks about how a guitar balances, as most players have to make ergonomic compromises based on what bass they play. I fall into the camp of preferring to have the neck of my bass near vertical (higher than 45), so I've come to accept that I'll have to modify my basses to suit my ergonomic goals, especially since I wear them as low as I can get away with being mindful of ergonomics.

Determining guitar balance through simple visualisation

I believe that at bass guitar not the most ergonomic instrument to begin with. I like this thread because for me, I don't really find the standard strap button locations really work for me as a player. Some basses in an attempt to be ergonomic tend to be the opposite (Gibson EB 5, any Cort Curtbow but especially those awful luthite ones, Warwick thumbs, for example). For these basses, you can't mitigate the fact that the neck itself (not just the headstock) is far heavier than the downsized body.. This is usually a problem with most lighter basses, especially those made with basswood, and you can only mitigate the issue of having an imbalance of weight between the neck and body so much in the name of making basses lighter and more ergonomic.

This even applies to how you wear the strap on your body. I see most players (in person) tend to shift their bass and strap closer to the right side of their body, which leads to having the already thin straps a lot of players use practically dig in towards their neck/collarbone. A lot of players don't notice doing this, or maybe do this to have the neck be at a higher angle and shift the bass to try to reach notes in the neck easier (This reason could be more spitballing but YMMV). For myself, I always move the strap to rest farther on my left directly the harder, bony part of my shoulder.

I find I prefer playing bass standing up as I never have been able to find a comfortable position for my wrists sitting down, especially for my right hand. Trying to play basses horizontally for me, while I can do it, leaves my right wrist at an awful angle, meaning I have to play right at the end of the fingerboard for my wrists to be straight in a lot of basses. Which then brings the issue of lowering the strap and then trying to do my best Rob Trujillo impression and tilt the neck up every time I play, leading to the bass fighting me in trying to keep it at the angle I want, especially with basses with the strap on the top horn of the 12th fret.

TL;DR Sometimes the only long term solution is how much you're willing to modify your instrument to fit your needs, as neck dive will always have a specific definition of what it means to you. Some players are better off finding a bass that works for them and fit their definition of balance, while others are going to find out of the box solutions to modify the bass to fit their needs (a la Bootsy Collins, Holger Czukay, Leon Wilkerson) with aftermarket parts and drilling into their basses
 
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