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Neck Woods

KingRazor

KingRazor

Jun 4, 2010
6,747
415
37
Beaverton, Oregon USA
#1
Alright, let's pretend for a moment that neck wood made up 100% of your tone.

I'm looking at alternatives to the usual maple neck and rosewood fingerboard. I want a neck that doesn't have to be finished.

The rosewood/maple formula works pretty well. The rosewood helps balance out the super bright maple. I believe padouk would be a good alternative to maple, as most places say that is has a very similar tone to maple.

But, I was also thinking of doing something different, like having a goncalo alves neck with a pau ferro fingerboard.

I like a warmer tone but I don't like it going all the way to muddy on the bright/warm tone spectrum.

I guess what I'm basically asking is do you think a padouk/rosewood board would work better or would a goncalo alves/pau ferro combo work well?

If there was a tone spectrum of 1 to 100, with 100 being "brighter than the sun" and 1 being "darker than black", I'd say I like a 30-40.
 
#2
Since tone isnt really that dependent on the neck wood thats a somewhat odd request. Its kind of like asking for what kind of tires you should get for your car based on liking vanilla pudding (or maybe lime jello?).

Go with whatever you want? Dont focus so much on tone, because the woods used arent going to have near the effect on tone as the electronics/pickups you use.

My personal favorites are wenge or mahogany neck with ebony fretboard.
 
#4
As opposed to parroting others opinions that may be based on completely non scientific experiments or hear say I'll offer you my advice based on my first hand experience from recent basses I've put together.

First of all, I do like a dark tone probably in the 20 to 40 range on your scale. Second of all I do like definition in the high notes but not a lot of fret and string noise or buzzy clackey notes. Third of all I like a neck that plays fast and looks good without a finish if possible.

I had two 5 string necks fabricated for me by Warmoth. One was a Maple/Maple neck with nickel frets and a graphtec nut and the other was a Rosewood/Rosewood neck with nickel frets and a graphtec nut.

The wood has no impact folks will tell you that these two necks will sound nearly identical. I drank their kool aid, which is why I bought 2 drastically different wood necks. I figured if the rosewood one was too heavy or had too much neck dive I'd just use the maple one, after all they'll sound the same, right.

I call BS on the wood has no impact kooks. The dfference was night and day. The maple neck was MUCH brighter and the rosewood neck was MUCH darker. I was able to compensate for the high end zing of the maple neck with the active preamp but it required nearly an 80 to 90% treble cut to do it. The rosewood neck gave me nearly the sound I was looking for and resulted in very neutral preamp settings, which translates to tons of flexibility in getting the tone I need for any given song or band setting.

I ended up refretting the rosewood neck with brass frets and a brass nut. That did the trick. It brightened the neck up a couple of notches and made it perfect. It also turned out that my concerns about neck dive with a 5 string rosewood steel truss Warmoth neck were unfounded as well, no problem with balance at all (I did use ultralight tuners). I think they have a graphite truss option now that would make the neck even lighter and may make it more lively as well.

Bottom line - if you like the look, feel and the darker tone of rosewood go for it. Brass frets and a brass nut will brighten it a bit, still much warmer than an all maple neck. Another great wood option that won't require a finish is Wenge/Wenge but it's probably brighter than rosewood, not sure how it compares to maple.
 
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#6
You know, not to discount what GBassNorth just said, I just find the goncalo alves/pau ferro combination too intriguing not to try.

And I do know that at the very least, fingerboard wood does make a difference. I've heard it myself in Dan Atkinson's audio tests.

Body wood on the other hand, not so much. Very little difference at least from what I've heard.

As far as neck shaft wood, I don't have a clue. 99.9% of all the necks I've heard were maple.
 
#7
Do you wonder why there are so few answers to this and none from the established builders? because this subject has been worn up one side and down another, see the search function.

Second, it is pretty well accepted that fretboards make a difference as they are in the main contact point of the strings from nut to last fret, even moreso on fretless.

Neck woods well, it's a moot point, it is usually thought there is a minor effect(dampening mainly) but it's 50/50 depending on who you talk to.

Brass nut only effects open strings

Brass frets....well, other than some early Banjos and a lot of ukelele's and nylon stringed instruments, brass is not a practical material for frets, and I am not sure of any manufacturer that offers it, although Dunlop does still sell it in very narrow sizes.
What is though to be "Brass Fretwire" is either Evo wire(LMI) or Warwick fretwire, and is a copper alloy that gives the look of brass/golden frets. Brass fretwire would last 4 weeks at most due to it's softness.

This will help you to sort through what has been stated above with the proper filter in place.
 
#8
Musiclogic said:
Do you wonder why there are so few answers to this and none from the established builders? because this subject has been worn up one side and down another, see the search function.

Second, it is pretty well accepted that fretboards make a difference as they are in the main contact point of the strings from nut to last fret, even moreso on fretless.

Neck woods well, it's a moot point, it is usually thought there is a minor effect(dampening mainly) but it's 50/50 depending on who you talk to.

Brass nut only effects open strings

Brass frets....well, other than some early Banjos and a lot of ukelele's and nylon stringed instruments, brass is not a practical material for frets, and I am not sure of any manufacturer that offers it, although Dunlop does still sell it in very narrow sizes.
What is though to be "Brass Fretwire" is either Evo wire(LMI) or Warwick fretwire, and is a copper alloy that gives the look of brass/golden frets. Brass fretwire would last 4 weeks at most due to it's softness.

This will help you to sort through what has been stated above with the proper filter in place.
Click to expand...

Actually, everything you just said is pretty much what I was already thinking.

I was just curious about my particular choice of wood and whether it would give me the results I desire or not.

I think I've already decided though.
 
#10
A bit more on brass frets:

"Brass" means an alloy of copper with other metals, usually zinc, but not necessarily.
"Bronze" means an alloy of copper with other metals, usually tin, but not necessarily.

Standard "nickel" fretwire is an alloy usually referred to "nickel silver" or "german silver." It is primarily copper, nickel, and zinc. There is no silver included. Proportions vary. When you see fretwire listings as "18% nickel silver" or "12% nickel silver," they are referring to the nickel content.

Standard "nickel silver" fretwire is a brass. It is what is sometimes referred to as a "white brass." If you find an old mistreated instrument where the frets have corroded, the corrosion will be green, as you would expect with any copper alloy.

The "yellow brass" fretwires are most likely more standard copper/zinc alloys. They may have some other elements in there, such as aluminum or iron, but I haven't yet seen an analysis.



The reason nickel silver is used for frets is its combination of wear toughness and corrosion resistance. This is similar to the similar to the traits brought to steel when adding nickel and chromium to make stainless (inox) steel.
 
#11
^^^good add, thanks

My brass frets are not actually brass, I suspect they are as you've noted - yellow brass fret wire or what ever material Warwick uses on their frets. The nut is standard run of the mill brass. The bass is 2 years old now and the frets are holding up great with 12+ hours of play a week on Optima Gold round wounds (and before anyone corrects that too, yes the strings are coated with a gold colored material but they are not made of "gold").
 
#14
Pete, great information for the metalurgist, unfortunately it has nothing to do with brass frets which are an actual product used in the musical instrument industry. As I stated "brass fretwire" is commonly used on ukes, vintage banjos, and nylon stringed guitars. While the composition and suggestion of metallic breakdown gives the poster an excuse, in this industry "Brass frets" are made of common soft brass, and are not open to conjecture especially when being used as an example for the basis of a point which is promoting false or bad information, which needs to be stopped in this forum where it flows abundantly, not a basis for a new excuse. People understanding what frets are made of is great information, and hopefully will teach those willing to learn.
pilotjones said:
A bit more on brass frets:

"Brass" means an alloy of copper with other metals, usually zinc, but not necessarily.
"Bronze" means an alloy of copper with other metals, usually tin, but not necessarily.

Standard "nickel" fretwire is an alloy usually referred to "nickel silver" or "german silver." It is primarily copper, nickel, and zinc. There is no silver included. Proportions vary. When you see fretwire listings as "18% nickel silver" or "12% nickel silver," they are referring to the nickel content.

Standard "nickel silver" fretwire is a brass. It is what is sometimes referred to as a "white brass." If you find an old mistreated instrument where the frets have corroded, the corrosion will be green, as you would expect with any copper alloy.

The "yellow brass" fretwires are most likely more standard copper/zinc alloys. They may have some other elements in there, such as aluminum or iron, but I haven't yet seen an analysis.



The reason nickel silver is used for frets is its combination of wear toughness and corrosion resistance. This is similar to the similar to the traits brought to steel when adding nickel and chromium to make stainless (inox) steel.
Click to expand...
 
#15
Musiclogic said:
Pete, great information for the metalurgist, unfortunately it has nothing to do with brass frets which are an actual product used in the musical instrument industry. As I stated "brass fretwire" is commonly used on ukes, vintage banjos, and nylon stringed guitars. While the composition and suggestion of metallic breakdown gives the poster an excuse, in this industry "Brass frets" are made of common soft brass, and are not open to conjecture especially when being used as an example for the basis of a point which is promoting false or bad information, which needs to be stopped in this forum where it flows abundantly, not a basis for a new excuse. People understanding what frets are made of is great information, and hopefully will teach those willing to learn.
Click to expand...
JC

OK then, what you're sayng is that ukes etc. use something that is brass, is generally referred to as "brass", but is soft. It is too soft for steel string guitar and bass applications. This is different from the Warwick or Evo fretwire, which while also being brass, is harder stuff which is suitable for steel string guitar and bass.

Correct?
 
#16
here Pete, I'll even make it simple for you. Brass Fretwire is made from "Common Brass http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Common+brass Semantics for the sake of excuse, and or arguement is ridiculous. the poster stated that he had a Warmoth neck that he had "Brass" frets "not nickle" put in for added brightness.

These are the common known gold colored fretwires not including the "Dunlop Brass" which is common "Brass";
Warmoth = Gold Color(specifying the copper alloy, and not Brass colored) [used in the above example but stated as "Brass"
LMI = EVO wire{specifically stated as "NOT BRASS" but a hard alloy
Warwick = stated as Bronze
Jescar = stated as Bronze/Copper alloy(why, this makes no sense, but..)

But yes, Pete that is correct in the round about way you are presenting it...LOL
 
#17
Thanks.

Interesting note, I just checked LMII's site, and they not only have changed their description of the Evo wire to a more accurate "copper alloy," and actually give the composition: "CuSn15Fe1Ti0.1," which means tin 15%, iron 1%, titanium .1%, balance copper (83.9% nom.).

Jescar is now also calling their stuff EVO.

I haven't checked Warmoth and LMII vs. Jescar to see whether they have an identical selection of sizes, which would suggest sourcing.
 
#18
I could imagine you with a miniture smelting set up, and a mold trying to develop a better blend....LOL. Kind of the mad scientist in his Lab. LOL
I wish they would quit changing things, makes me wonder why they print these binder catalogs and then alter their product discription and not inform their customers....LOL. I guess I need to get online more with my computer:p. NOT
 
#20
pilotjones said:
Thanks.

Interesting note, I just checked LMII's site, and they not only have changed their description of the Evo wire to a more accurate "copper alloy," and actually give the composition: "CuSn15Fe1Ti0.1," which means tin 15%, iron 1%, titanium .1%, balance copper (83.9% nom.).

Jescar is now also calling their stuff EVO.

I haven't checked Warmoth and LMII vs. Jescar to see whether they have an identical selection of sizes, which would suggest sourcing.
Click to expand...

Interesting. So if that's the composition of what some fret wire suppliers are providing I wonder what the composition of "nickle" frets is and likewise the actual make up of stainless frets. Then it would be good to see what the difference is in hardness and density between the bunch. I will say that the "brass" frets I had installed on my bass made a noticible difference in the tone as did the brass nut on open strings.
 

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