need advice about home stereo speakers

[Pilgrim]

If you let your beloved buy you some nice new speakers, then you can also get the foam kit and repair the ones you have. You may find another great spot for a music system in your home and decide to relocate one of the sets. I moved into an apartment (from a country house) about 5 years ago and loud music became a no no. I now have a low volume setup in each room, of various makes, which lets me enjoy music anywhere without annoying anyone.

Good thought here. Most of us could use a spare set of stereo speakers, and the cost to re-foam is minor. Good experience, too, and a little DIY practice is good for you.

Also, you could re-sell the old speakers for more than you spend on the foam kits.

 

[hbarcat]

Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone. It appears that every option I had originally considered -- re-foam the woofers, replace the woofers, or buy a pair of new speakers -- has been endorsed by at least one person. That's good, I guess -- maybe there just aren't any bad choices here -- but I feel like I'm back at square one not knowing which way to go.

So, please keep the suggestions coming. I need someone to talk me into something, or maybe just to say the right thing in the right way at the right time so it rings a bell!

Maybe this will help. Or not.


I first suggested that you buy new speakers, but after checking out your
CV D-3's on several audio sites I've changed my mind. These are not bad speakers and a re-foam job is really simple and cheap.

The 10" CV woofers seem to be highly regarded so there is no sense in replacing them with something else. The mid driver and tweeter are adequate but sound good as a package in the loaded cabinet. You can be perfectly happy with them as they are or opt to upgrade them any time in the future. Also simple and cheap.

If you've liked the way they've sounded so far, you might as well stick with them unless you want to shell out $500 or more for an upgrade pair.

 

[Lobster11]

While I'm thinking about this....

How worried should I be about damaging the speakers by using them "foamless"? They actually sound fine now that I've removed the chunks and dust of what-used-to-be-foam, and evidently I've been using them for a long time before I ever noticed the problem at all. If I want to keep open the possibility of re-foaming them, do I need to stop using them right now or can I get I safely continue to use them for a few more days (or so)?

 

[Brad Johnson]

Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone. It appears that every option I had originally considered -- re-foam the woofers, replace the woofers, or buy a pair of new speakers -- has been endorsed by at least one person. That's good, I guess -- maybe there just aren't any bad choices here -- but I feel like I'm back at square one not knowing which way to go.

So, please keep the suggestions coming. I need someone to talk me into something, or maybe just to say the right thing in the right way at the right time so it rings a bell!

If you want to spend more money, go ahead. As mentioned, if you like what you already have you can get that back for less than 20 bucks.


Speaker shopping can be time-consuming and expensive. For someone like me it's not even on my list of considerations, I know I can find used sets that sold for $500-$1,000 for around $100. Not that I need to, I don't even know how many sets of speakers I have that I'm not currently using.

 

[Brad Johnson]

While I'm thinking about this....

How worried should I be about damaging the speakers by using them "foamless"? They actually sound fine now that I've removed the chunks and dust of what-used-to-be-foam, and evidently I've been using them for a long time before I ever noticed the problem at all. If I want to keep open the possibility of re-foaming them, do I need to stop using them right now or can I get I safely continue to use them for a few more days (or so)?

You may want to look at how speakers operate to understand what purpose the foam fulfills. You're not helping by using them without surrounds but if you feel lucky keep doing it. If it were me I wouldn't push my luck, I'd weigh how many days use was it worth against having to replace a driver or two. Hindsight is a bear.

Replacing the foam should not damage the drivers. It should fix them.

It really is usually easy to replace surrounds. I didn't even buy surrounds that were specifically for my driver, just the general size. Cleaned the speaker up, glued the foam in, hooked them up the next day. Done.

 

[TOOL460002]

Not to hate on advice posts, but I would never buy Polk Audio. I swear every time I looked at them you could buy better for less. A lot of that was car audio though. For the car I went with a Sony head, Boston acoustics drivers and speakers and MTX subs and mono D amp. Worked like a charm.

But home? Dude. Denon is amazing. Klipsch is too. Go Klipsch! And do tell what you land on buying.

 

[Pilgrim]

It really is usually easy to replace surrounds. I didn't even buy surrounds that were specifically for my driver, just the general size. Cleaned the speaker up, glued the foam in, hooked them up the next day. Done.

Exactly. Any more, they come in generic sizes. This is an easy job. I agree, I would not continue to play them without the foam surrounds.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Not to hate on advice posts, but I would never buy Polk Audio. I swear every time I looked at them you could buy better for less. A lot of that was car audio though. For the car I went with a Sony head, Boston acoustics drivers and speakers and MTX subs and mono D amp. Worked like a charm.

But home? Dude. Denon is amazing. Klipsch is too. Go Klipsch! And do tell what you land on buying.

As an owner of several Polk home audio components (big center channel, three powered subs, etc.) I don't have an issue with them. Then again I'm using them at home, long term, in several systems. I also own some Denon gear and I wouldn't swap any of my Polk stuff for comparable Denon... it's not like they're worlds apart in SQ and my Polk gear has performed flawlessly, especially my CS400i center channel.

Back in the 70's my Air Force roommate had Klipsch corners while I was running a pair of Magnaplanars bi-polar planar speakers (radiated sound from the front and back side of the planar element, fairly bleeding edge back then ) with a Dynaco tube amp. Never warmed up to the relatively boxy sound of his rig. Not saying there's anything wrong with Klipschs or Denon, IMO I've heard things that I like better and own. Like the Maggies, Signet, Infinity Composition Overtures, Dahlquist DQ series, DCM Time Windows, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Definitive Technology, PSB, Celestion, etc. All for less than most new recommendations.

 

[Pilgrim]

I picked up a nice set of Polk RT16 speakers (used) a few months ago and they're superior to anything I have ever owned.

Let it be noted that I do not spend a lot of money on speakers.

But - both for stereo, and for surround sound, they are pretty darn great.

 

[TOOL460002]

As an owner of several Polk home audio components (big center channel, three powered subs, etc.) I don't have an issue with them. Then again I'm using them at home, long term, in several systems. I also own some Denon gear and I wouldn't swap any of my Polk stuff for comparable Denon... it's not like they're worlds apart in SQ and my Polk gear has performed flawlessly, especially my CS400i center channel.

Back in the 70's my Air Force roommate had Klipsch corners while I was running a pair of Magnaplanars bi-polar planar speakers (radiated sound from the front and back side of the planar element, fairly bleeding edge back then ) with a Dynaco tube amp. Never warmed up to the relatively boxy sound of his rig. Not saying there's anything wrong with Klipschs or Denon, IMO I've heard things that I like better and own. Like the Maggies, Signet, Infinity Composition Overtures, Dahlquist DQ series, DCM Time Windows, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Definitive Technology, PSB, Celestion, etc. All for less than most new recommendations.

I respect you and your choices a lot. But I also found Infinity to be overpriced TOO! Nothing wrong with shelling out an extra bill to get your taste, but denon and klipsch are like the all star combo. Unless maybe you go custom HK install. Buddy's dad had a full system like that late 90s. Was a beast. But way too much for comparable stuff. If If Was on a budget I would go Yamaha and probably energy. That's mr. But got denon? Just buy klipsch.

 

[fretter]

I opted for some Infinity bookshelf speakers about 6 ears ago. They've been great, although I miss 3-way speakers.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I respect you and your choices a lot. But I also found Infinity to be overpriced TOO! Nothing wrong with shelling out an extra bill to get your taste, but denon and klipsch are like the all star combo. Unless maybe you go custom HK install. Buddy's dad had a full system like that late 90s. Was a beast. But way too much for comparable stuff. If If Was on a budget I would go Yamaha and probably energy. That's mr. But got denon? Just buy klipsch.

I respect your choices and you're highlighting a major difference in our approaches. While you see Denon and Klipsch as allstars, I have to question what else you've heard. I know that I've been perfectly happy with gear before... and then I experienced something demonstrably better. That's what shoot for.

You say that Infinity is overpriced TOO. I guess that means that Polk is overpriced too. Fine. Except they aren't... when you buy like I do.

My Composition Overtures were a pawnshop find for $150 w/stands in excellent condition. Overpriced? I don't think so . As I think I mentioned, if you know what you're looking for the deals are both plentiful and crazy. I purchased several HK AVR series receivers direct from HK and others on ebay. Unfortunately three of them failed over the years so I no longer recommend them.

Picked up at least five Yamaha HT receivers, the most I think I've paid is $120 NOS, still have one on a system and passed the others on to friends. I found a $1,000 set of PSB floorstanding speakers new at a store, for $100. I still have no idea why they dropped the price so low and I didn't dwell on it. The same store was dumping a bunch of Klipsch but like I said, I wasn't interested.

I was perfectly happy with my Panasonic HT projector when I caught a projector out of the corner of my eye as I was about to walk out empty handed. It was a like new 3D Epson 1080p that was currently selling for $2,600. They had tagged it at $1k. I asked what they'd take and they said $800... so I bought it. At that point I had options: flip it and make a cool $1k, keep it and sell the Panny. I sold the Panny and ended up paying for the Epson. Basically a free upgrade. I've had a killer picture in a small home office with 84" screen for a few years now.

So if you're comparing new to new, cool. I don’t, particularly when I think the build quality keeps going down on many brands over previous models or the prices get jacked up. I paid $40 for my Dahquist DQ8's and like most of my purchases I could easily flip and more than quadruple my investments. I also have lots of vintage NAD, Nakamichi, Soundcraftsmen, JBL, Bang & Olufsen, etc. that I purchased for pennies on the dollar. Great sound doesn't have to cost alot. I could go through ebay, craigslist, etc. and in a couple of weeks or so put together a killer system for peanuts. You just need to know what a great deal looks like. I do.


I buy my basses the same way. Depreciation and general lack of market knowledge on the part of sellers are very good friends of mine. I find $4k basses for a grand way more often than one might think possible. Which is why I chuckle when people say this or that is not a good investment. It depends on how you acquire it. I understand that everyone won't be into this to the degree I am.

 

[Pilgrim]

Funny thing, Bruce - I picked up the Pols RT16s in a pawn shop too, for just over $100. In the surround system I have set up with all Polk front speakers, they sound so good that occasionally I think I'm hearing sound from another nearby room until I realize it's background from the Polks.

Same with the Design Acoustic PS-10 speakers I picked up years ago in a pawn shop. They sounded good sitting on top of a shelf in the store, and they sound much better at home where there are reflecting surfaces around them (because...acoustics) . Those PS10s have as much punch and clarity in a moderate size format as I've heard, and with their 10" woofers firing downwards on an elevated platform, they bring da bass. I built an all-Design Acoustics system around them (with used center channel and surrounds) and it works great.

So yes, I buy cheap. I really have no desire to buy speakers new if I can find good ones used. I did buy my KLH 331 speakers new - in 1976, and I still have them. I've had to re-foam those speakers, just as I have the woofers in the Design Acoustic PS-10s...funny thing about that. Foam only lasts so long.

Some days I think about the folks who go into a stereo store and spend $1000 or more just on speakers, and maybe another couple thousand on separate audio components. Then I realize that every stereo and surround system (three) in my house combined wouldn't have cost as much as those neat-o speakers. But that's what it's worth to me, not them. It's their money, their call, their priorities.

 

[Brad Johnson]

No, you buy smart.

But thank goodness for those first owners. Without them there'd be a lot smaller resale market

 

[Lobster11]

O.P. here with some updates:

1. Based on some of the replies here, I'm avoiding -- or at least minimizing -- using the speakers in their current condition, to avoid further damage.

2. I watched (what seemed to be) a good instructional video, from Parts Express, about re-foaming a speaker. I suspect that many or most people would watch this and say, "Hey, I can do this!" -- but I came away from it convinced that if I tried to do it I would (a) not have fun and (b) somehow screw it up. Pretty sure I'd wind up with my shirt glued to the driver and the driver glued to the table. If I were convinced that this would be a useful skill to have going forward I might bite the bullet and give it a try, but I'd really like to solve my problem in a way that won't require me to ever do this (or have it done) again.

3. I called my local electronics-repair shop, which I feel like I can trust given that they have been in business for over 40 years -- in a small town where word gets around -- and had a long chat with the guy, who seemed like a cool dude. He would charge me $175 to re-foam both speakers, plus the cost of the kits/parts. That's probably a fair price for the labor, but I think it's more than I want to spend to restore my old speakers -- and it significantly narrows the gap between the cost of fixing the old speakers and buying new ones. (He also explained in detail his re-foaming process, which was entirely consistent with the video I watched and further persuaded me that I'm not the right guy for the job.) This option also involves doing without any speakers for an indeterminate period of time -- especially now, because of the holidays.

4. Another option is that the electronics-repair-shop-dude would consider buying my old speakers, with the goal of re-foaming and selling them, but after a little research figured that he wouldn't be able to offer me much -- maybe $25-$35 -- to be able to make a reasonable profit. That's less than I had hoped, but again probably quite reasonable given the market.

So, I'm still not sure what to do, but I'm now leaning more towards the option of buying new speakers and getting whatever pittance I can get from this guy for my old ones. Does this make sense given what I've said above? And if so, I'd be especially interested in hearing more recommendations about new speakers. Keep in mind that the main restriction is that my Denon receiver/amplifier only puts out 40W per side, so anything that requires more than that isn't an option.

 

[TOOL460002]

I respect your choices and you're highlighting a major difference in our approaches. While you see Denon and Klipsch as allstars, I have to question what else you've heard. I know that I've been perfectly happy with gear before... and then I experienced something demonstrably better. That's what shoot for.

You say that Infinity is overpriced TOO. I guess that means that Polk is overpriced too. Fine. Except they aren't... when you buy like I do.

My Composition Overtures were a pawnshop find for $150 w/stands in excellent condition. Overpriced? I don't think so . As I think I mentioned, if you know what you're looking for the deals are both plentiful and crazy. I purchased several HK AVR series receivers direct from HK and others on ebay. Unfortunately three of them failed over the years so I no longer recommend them.

Picked up at least five Yamaha HT receivers, the most I think I've paid is $120 NOS, still have one on a system and passed the others on to friends. I found a $1,000 set of PSB floorstanding speakers new at a store, for $100. I still have no idea why they dropped the price so low and I didn't dwell on it. The same store was dumping a bunch of Klipsch but like I said, I wasn't interested.

I was perfectly happy with my Panasonic HT projector when I caught a projector out of the corner of my eye as I was about to walk out empty handed. It was a like new 3D Epson 1080p that was currently selling for $2,600. They had tagged it at $1k. I asked what they'd take and they said $800... so I bought it. At that point I had options: flip it and make a cool $1k, keep it and sell the Panny. I sold the Panny and ended up paying for the Epson. Basically a free upgrade. I've had a killer picture in a small home office with 84" screen for a few years now.

So if you're comparing new to new, cool. I don’t, particularly when I think the build quality keeps going down on many brands over previous models or the prices get jacked up. I paid $40 for my Dahquist DQ8's and like most of my purchases I could easily flip and more than quadruple my investments. I also have lots of vintage NAD, Nakamichi, Soundcraftsmen, JBL, Bang & Olufsen, etc. that I purchased for pennies on the dollar. Great sound doesn't have to cost alot. I could go through ebay, craigslist, etc. and in a couple of weeks or so put together a killer system for peanuts. You just need to know what a great deal looks like. I do.


I buy my basses the same way. Depreciation and general lack of market knowledge on the part of sellers are very good friends of mine. I find $4k basses for a grand way more often than one might think possible. Which is why I chuckle when people say this or that is not a good investment. It depends on how you acquire it. I understand that everyone won't be into this to the degree I am.

Okay now I get ya. You are correct I was just comparing new to new at a showroom (not that goodguys or circuit city etc exist to do that these days).

So for deal hunting, I completely agree. I tend to buy stuff based on time. If a deal doesn't come up for something used I trust as a used product, then I buy new. It's just for me and my experience I've found used speakers of various ages to be less than consistent. If you can't really open them up and look at the more delicate parts and check for wear, then it's hit or miss.

So I agree for the most part, but sometimes I'd still prefer new on items people sometimes mistreat or internet orders on products that aren't rock solid unbreakable.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Comp

Okay now I get ya. You are correct I was just comparing new to new at a showroom (not that goodguys or circuit city etc exist to do that these days).

So for deal hunting, I completely agree. I tend to buy stuff based on time. If a deal doesn't come up for something used I trust as a used product, then I buy new. It's just for me and my experience I've found used speakers of various ages to be less than consistent. If you can't really open them up and look at the more delicate parts and check for wear, then it's hit or miss.

So I agree for the most part, but sometimes I'd still prefer new on items people sometimes mistreat or internet orders on products that aren't rock solid unbreakable.

Completely understood. I tend to not buy anything under a time constraint if I can help it.

The most common wear items on older speakers are the surrounds. Most quality speakers have removable grilles. Pretty easy to see a flimsy or failing surround.

 

[Brad Johnson]

O.P. here with some updates:

1. Based on some of the replies here, I'm avoiding -- or at least minimizing -- using the speakers in their current condition, to avoid further damage.

2. I watched (what seemed to be) a good instructional video, from Parts Express, about re-foaming a speaker. I suspect that many or most people would watch this and say, "Hey, I can do this!" -- but I came away from it convinced that if I tried to do it I would (a) not have fun and (b) somehow screw it up. Pretty sure I'd wind up with my shirt glued to the driver and the driver glued to the table. If I were convinced that this would be a useful skill to have going forward I might bite the bullet and give it a try, but I'd really like to solve my problem in a way that won't require me to ever do this (or have it done) again.

3. I called my local electronics-repair shop, which I feel like I can trust given that they have been in business for over 40 years -- in a small town where word gets around -- and had a long chat with the guy, who seemed like a cool dude. He would charge me $175 to re-foam both speakers, plus the cost of the kits/parts. That's probably a fair price for the labor, but I think it's more than I want to spend to restore my old speakers -- and it significantly narrows the gap between the cost of fixing the old speakers and buying new ones. (He also explained in detail his re-foaming process, which was entirely consistent with the video I watched and further persuaded me that I'm not the right guy for the job.) This option also involves doing without any speakers for an indeterminate period of time -- especially now, because of the holidays.

4. Another option is that the electronics-repair-shop-dude would consider buying my old speakers, with the goal of re-foaming and selling them, but after a little research figured that he wouldn't be able to offer me much -- maybe $25-$35 -- to be able to make a reasonable profit. That's less than I had hoped, but again probably quite reasonable given the market.

So, I'm still not sure what to do, but I'm now leaning more towards the option of buying new speakers and getting whatever pittance I can get from this guy for my old ones. Does this make sense given what I've said above? And if so, I'd be especially interested in hearing more recommendations about new speakers. Keep in mind that the main restriction is that my Denon receiver/amplifier only puts out 40W per side, so anything that requires more than that isn't an option.

If $175 for labor alone sounds reasonable... wow. IMO it's far from a fair price. It's pretty ridiculous. How many days work are they billing for?


I think that it's pretty ballsy that they'd quote that much AND not throw in the kit. This would be like someone charging you $175 to change your windshield wipers AND charging you extra for the refills. We're basically talking an arts and crafts project.

So clearly if you feel you'd screw this up and you have no friends, family, acquaintances, etc. who have the minimal DIY skill level to do this, the only other options are giving away a set of speakers that require a $20 repair, buying new drivers that may not fit the design of your cab as well, buying used refoamed drivers, buying new speakers is probably your best option based on what you've said.

I will say, because you may not realize this, that the glue for this does not set up immediately, you have plenty of time to adjust the fit... for you to end up with your shirt glued to something would require you to hold your shirt against the glued part for an extended length of time.


Good luck with whatever you choose. I could do it for less than that shop, including parts and shipping and I'd be taking advantage of you.

 

[T_Bone_TL]

If $175 for labor alone sounds reasonable... wow. IMO it's far from a fair price. It's pretty ridiculous. How many days work are they billing for?

That's just over 3 hours of my time at the friends discount rate and somewhat shy of 2 hours at the general rate. I don't know about you, but if I'm doing skilled labor I had better be keeping up with my auto mechanic's rates, not minimum wage. Not that I do speaker surrounds (so far, anyway.)

 

[Lobster11]

That's just over 3 hours of my time at the friends discount rate and somewhat shy of 2 hours at the general rate. I don't know about you, but if I'm doing skilled labor I had better be keeping up with my auto mechanic's rates, not minimum wage. Not that I do speaker surrounds (so far, anyway.)

With all due respect to @Brad Johnson, this is how I was thinking about it: I figured 2+ hours labor at a rate comparable to a good mechanic (but less than my plumber!).

I totally get the argument for a DYI re-foaming for the cost of a couple of kits: I don't think there is any doubt that this is by far the most cost-effective solution. However, I'm just not psyched (or optimistic) about the DYI project, and I have the dough (and wife's complete support) for buying something new. I'm 59, and I've bought exactly two sets of speakers in my lifetime: a pair of Bolivars (an offshoot of JBL) when I was in college in 1977, and the Cerwin-Vegas I purchased some time between then and now.

As stupid as it might sound from a practical perspective, I'm leaning toward treating myself to, say, a pair of Klipsch tower speakers (as several folks have suggested). I'm now looking at the R-26F's, which I think would pair well with my Denon amp/receiver. Anybody have any thoughts on those particular speakers?