need help deciding on an all eden setup

[Killspringer]

Hey thanks again for the replies everybody. So, all the replies help a lot, and I understand a little about impedance, but the one thing I'm still confused about is...

How the heck would one accomplish a 2 ohm load? Two 4 ohm cabinets? Still seems like 750 watts at 2 ohms (the power ratings on the WT550 at 2 ohms) would fall short of the 1000watt combined power requirements of two D210xst cabs (4 ohms, 500w rms). Can somebody give me an example of a rig where one might use the 2 ohm capability of the WT550 or an amp with similar features? Am I confused about this?

 

[christw]

2 ohms can be accomplished with 2 cabinets rated at 4 ohms each. Cabinets don't have power requirements. Those are maximum input power ratings. 500w RMS into the 210 is when the voice coils in the speakers break down or melt.

Two of the 4 ohm D210xst would get up to the full 750w RMS from the head but would fart out long before getting that much power from it.

 

[Coop Soup]

Hey thanks again for the replies everybody. So, all the replies help a lot, and I understand a little about impedance, but the one thing I'm still confused about is...

How the heck would one accomplish a 2 ohm load? Two 4 ohm cabinets? Still seems like 750 watts at 2 ohms (the power ratings on the WT550 at 2 ohms) would fall short of the 1000watt combined power requirements of two D210xst cabs (4 ohms, 500w rms). Can somebody give me an example of a rig where one might use the 2 ohm capability of the WT550 or an amp with similar features? Am I confused about this?

There are no power requirements for running 2 D210XST cabs. You could run those cabs with even less amp. In fact, 750 watts vs 1000 watts really wouldn't make much of a difference in volume overall.

For some of the electronics nerds... isn't it only like a 2-3 DB gain when you double the wattage?

 

[raymondl3]

The efficiency and number of speakers is where it's at in terms of volume. I had a WT800 pushing 2 Aguilar GS112s and was never able to get it close to the volume of my WT500 / SWR 410 (8 ohm) nor my WT500 (one side at 250) / Schroeder 410.

 

[woody357]

Hey thanks again for the replies everybody. So, all the replies help a lot, and I understand a little about impedance, but the one thing I'm still confused about is...

How the heck would one accomplish a 2 ohm load? Two 4 ohm cabinets? Still seems like 750 watts at 2 ohms (the power ratings on the WT550 at 2 ohms) would fall short of the 1000watt combined power requirements of two D210xst cabs (4 ohms, 500w rms). Can somebody give me an example of a rig where one might use the 2 ohm capability of the WT550 or an amp with similar features? Am I confused about this?

IMHO I don't see a 210 being enough for Rock. I'll ask the question again do you have PA support, if so your amp is just backline

 

[Killspringer]

IMHO I don't see a 210 being enough for Rock. I'll ask the question again do you have PA support, if so your amp is just backline

I don't think a 2x10 is enough for rock either, and yes, there will be mostly big shows where we have awesome PA support, although I also play upright in this and another band, and there will be some gigs where all I need is a 2x10. Other gigs might have vocals only going through the PA, hence the need for flexibility here. I can't afford 2 amps, but I can probably afford an amp and one cab for now, and when I DO need a 4x10 or a 2nd 2x10 or an add-on 15" furhter down the road, I'll buy it. Right now, getting a WT800 for my trade in represents a financial maneuver that I won't be able to pull off again. It's much more likely in the future that I can cough up $800 for a bigger cab, but not $1500 for an amp like that. I am just not confident that the WT550 would push a D210XST with the headroom I want.

 

[Morning Beer]

I've owned a bunch of eden gear. Not sure about the nemi 15 but the tour one was terrible. If you got the $ get the 550 and 4x10. If it was me I'd get the 800 and find a 4x10 on CL. A 210 wont get you too far.

 

[Killspringer]

If it was me I'd get the 800 and find a 4x10 on CL.

This seems to be where my experience, intuition, and advice from this and the eden forums is leading me. I want to make the most of this trade in, so I might as well go all out on the amp, and save up for cabs worthy of it as time goes by.

 

[raymondl3]

I am just not confident that the WT550 would push a D210XST with the headroom I want.

If you got the 4ohm 210xst it would draw 500 watt from the 550, which is a perfect match, but even if you push it with 1000 watts it won't be as loud as the 410 pushed by 500 and won't sound as big. Also you'll you won't be able to roll it around like the 410 and when you do add a second cab you'll have an extra thing to schlepp and the two cabs combined will take up about 30% more room. Been there, done that.

The bi-amp feature is way overrated IMO. All of the Eden cabs are full-range so you really don't need it.

 

[Munjibunga]

I know where there's a very nice used D-210XST for sale for less than the Nemesis 210.

 

[bThumper38]

IMO you need way more than a 2x10 for a rock band. Go with a 4x10xlt they kill it. you could always throw a 15 under it later on.

 

[woody357]

Well if you have your heart set on the 800, try to find a good used one. You could more than likely find one at about half the price of a new one. I got my 550 for $400, and I haven't had a problem with it.

 

[IvanMike]

the 550 is fine for what you need - the 800 won't get you significantly louder, and if you get one of the 800s that can only drive 4 ohms per side, then the 550 will be able to drive just as many cabs.

I think folk have covered it, and you could always read the OHMs FAQ linked in the amps FAQ sticky but here goes. All bass cabs and amp outputs are wired in parallel. four 8 ohm cabs will give you a 2 ohm load, as will one 4 ohm and two 8 ohm cabs, as will two 4 ohm cabs. Three 8 ohm cabs will give you a 2.67 ohm load, as will one 4 ohm and one 8 ohm cab. A four ohm load can be achieved with one 4 ohm cab (duh!) or two 8 ohm cabs. and of course an 8 ohm load will be from one 8 ohm cab.

You're not going to get a huge volume increase by going with a lower impedance (in ohms) if you do something like get the 4 ohm version of a cab rather than the identical cab in 8 ohms. What will give you more volume "bang for the buck" is using more cabs, or a cab (or cabs) with more drivers in them. Also the sensitivity and voicing of the cabs will affect your volume. (go read a bunch of threads in the Amps FAQ sticky for a lot of info)

on to the gear...If it were me I would stick to the 550 head rather than the 800, the extra cost just doesn't justify the small power increase, and you can use just as many cabs. I'll be honest, I'm not impressed with the nemesis cabs. If I were you I would check out a bunch of cabs (not just eden D series) - and find some that you like and that seem to have enough volume for you. I agree that a 210 or one 1x15 probably won't have enough volume for loud rock. When I used a WT400 (the same as the 550 but it can only go to 4 ohms minimum and has a slightly smaller wattage rating at 8 and 4 ohms) I used an eden 210XLT and an eden/swr 410t (both 8 ohms) This was a very loud band BTW. Later I used a bag end 115 and a bag end 112. I've played a friend's 550 through two 1x15 and two 1x12 bag ends (all 8 ohms so it was a 2 ohm load) it was loud as Poseidon.

I'm not saying you should use the cab setups I did, but i would recommend looking into getting two good 8 ohm cabs to start with, maybe two 2x10 cabs, maybe something else. You can always start with one cab and save up for another.

 

[CrUiSeR]

Another vote for the 550 with a decent used 410
The 800 is almost twice the price as the
550 and when you factor in tax it is even
closer to twice the price, but in no way will
give you twice the volume.
then save for the DNA 410

 

[Killspringer]

Just brought home my new WT550!!! Picking up a D210xlt in the morning. Thanks for the advice everybody

 

[CrUiSeR]

that is a very capable rig!

 

[Killspringer]

I know where there's a very nice used D-210XST for sale for less than the Nemesis 210.

where???

 

[Dejablue]

All purchased used = $1075.00 total



WT800C
D-115
D-2x10T

 

[Killspringer]

update on my eden experience:

got a D210xlt on Friday at a consignment shop. sounded fine in the shop. played a show Friday night. sounded great. Practice Monday night? blew out a cone in 2 minutes and I wasn't even turned up past 11 oclock on the gain or the master. called eden, no new re-coning kits, new driver is about $150 and I can't get one til "sometime in mid-late may". consignment shop obviously won't take it back, so now I'm touring with a blown cab which is functionally now, a 1x10.

*sigh* :scowl:

 

[Bass Mayhem]

I got an Eden WT1205 that I seldom use, had the WT400, WT800B and WTX260. I have one D410XST and four D112XLT's, had once a D410XLT. I also have a Markbass 121P combo and a Genz Benz ShuttleMax 12.0.

My favourite so far is a combination of two or four D112XLT's, depending on the size of the venue. For clubs a twin setup is more than adequate. The Markbass and one 112 is a killer rig coming to portability and volume. The Max with two or four is pure dynamite. Light weight, well sounding and loud. The 1205 and 410 stays at home most of the time.

A 550 and D112XLT's is something to knock down walls with...