• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Double Bass Need help making a decision about strings

jedgargroover

jedgargroover

Jul 26, 2008
153
11
#1
I haven't played the doghouse for a number of years as I had to give up my bass a while back (had to pay the rent and never did get another bass.) Through a strange twist of fate I've inherited a 3/4 Juzek (I know...it's like hitting the lottery and I'm very lucky; I totally acknowledge that and bow down to the bass gods for their generous bounty) so now I find myself with a bass again. Thus, I'm starting out with a nice carved bass that is relatively dark, but complex, and in severe need of being played in and opened up as it's just sat unplayed for years until I got it.

I'm going to be playing jazz along with some folk/bluegrass/roots music. I don't think I'll be bowing much if at all, nor will I be doing much if any slapping. Pretty much pizz playing all the way.

The luthier who set the bass up for me suggested Spirocores as a good starting point, but after a couple of weeks (and $200...although I'd probably just sell them here on TB as I've got less than 10 hours on them at this point), I find that they are WAY too high tension and difficult to play for me. I'm mainly a guitarist of the six string variety these days and I don't necessarily have the time to invest in building up the hand strength need to play the Spirocores. Plus, I know myself -- I'll be likely to practice bass more if I can push down the darn strings. I devote the vast majority of my practice time to guitar anyway, although I love both instruments. (Well...except for when I have to travel anywhere with them...then guitar wins hands down!)

I understand that I can significantly lower my action, but then I lose tone and projection...plus I have to pay for another setup because I'd likely have to get the bridge filed down. (It's adjustable but I have it all the way down right now.) Plus, I like to give some room for the strings to orbit and for the top to vibrate. I prefer that tone. Plus, I do have a mild tendinitis. I'd rather just get a different set of strings. My maximum price range is $200.

Yes, I'm open to the idea of ultimately just having to play amplified in all settings but for now I'd like to try another road before I go down that one. I'm a long way from gigging in terms of my chops at this moment anyway, and I continue to focus on my six string guitar studies at any rate.

I'm thinking of one of the following:
  • Corelli 370M
  • Velvet Compass 180 Suite
  • LaBella 7710N Black Tape Wound
  • Some sort of solo gauge set tuned to orchestral tuning? I've no idea where to start with this one, but from what I've read it sounds like it has its merits.
  • Something else???
My number one concern at this point is ease of play, with tone being a close second.

Any thoughts would be welcome.

Thanks!
 
#3
Before you go throwing more money at the problem, please help us understand a few other factors. What are the string heights at the end of the fingerboard, in millimeters? A middle-of-the-road jazz setup is 7-8-9-10mm for the G,D, A and E strings respectively.

Fingerboard camber is also important, and is similar to the relief dialed in to the neck of your guitar with the truss rod. These days, with steel strings being the norm, a relatively flat camber is normal. An older bass like yours may have been set up with a lot of camber for gut strings, which require much more "scoop" in the board in order to vibrate freely. Depress the G string in the first position (Ab) and at the octave, and have an assistant measure the camber at its' greatest depth, which should be not too far below the octave. Let us know what you find out.
 
#4
Thanks, Troy. I don't mind different than what I'm used to. In fact that's what I want. I'm not at all happy with what I'm used to and I want something very different.

What about Innovations such as Silver Slaps? The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a tape wound string, particularly a lower tension one. Any thoughts on the Labellas? Those are really of interest to me. Quite a while back I played a bass in a music store that had black nylon tape strings on it...I don't remember what kind...but I remember thinking about how wonderfully easy they played.

Thank you, KungFu. The bass is from the 1970s so I'd think it'd be fairly modern in construction, but you're talking to the very uneducated here. The string heights at the end of the fingerboard are more like 9-10-11-12. The string height at the octave are 7-8-9-10. At 1st position on the E string it's at about 5mm. I'm measuring from the fingerboard to the center of the string, so I don't know if I'm doing it right. At Ab on the E string it's 6mm. That's with the adjustable bridge dialed pretty much all the way as low it'll go.

I don't mind spending a little money, and if I find a set I like I'll likely put the Spriocores up here as they are almost new, so that'll mitigate the outlay.
 
#6
You might consider Velvet Blues. They are considerably less expensive than other Velvets and have gone over really well with nearly everyone who has tried them and didn't care about arco. If you're looking at tape wound strings, I assume arco is not a priority for you.

I like what I've heard and read of them and would probably give them a whirl if it wasn't for the stick o' pain.

I can't help you with Labellas or Silverslaps.
 
#7
I had Corelli`s ( 370M or 380M ) on a bass with pretty similar old school setup as yours and for my beginner hands they were the only strings I could manage. They are very easy on hands and they have dark gut type of pizzicato sound. Very easy under bow too. On a dark bass they get too dark, imo.
 
#8
"The string heights at the end of the fingerboard are more like 9-10-11-12. The string height at the octave are 7-8-9-10. At 1st position on the E string it's at about 5mm. I'm measuring from the fingerboard to the center of the string, so I don't know if I'm doing it right. At Ab on the E string it's 6mm. That's with the adjustable bridge dialed pretty much all the way as low it'll go."

Standard practice is to measure the airspace between the board and the string, but that's useful information you've provided. Your strings sound like they're REALLY high at the nut end, especially for a new player. If I'm understanding you correctly, the first thing you should do IMO is have a good bass luthier work on the string slots in the nut. The rule of thumb is that you should just be able to slide a business card under the strings at the nut. With the strings at an appropriate height, it should be much easier to stop the notes, and at a cost far below $200.

IME LaBella strings in general are pretty blah. Ron Carter seems to be the only person who really digs the black-nylon strings. I played them on a Kay at Gage's shop and thought they were OK but not something I'd ever spend money on.
 
#9
...of course they have the new *white* tape wound version now too :/

IME having a properly set up nut height does wonders for a hard-to-play set up. At a certain point too, one just has to put the work in and strengthen the technique and muscles required to play the thing correctly (efficiently and without causing yourself damage!)
Are the Spirocores on your bass right now the Mittels (medium)? Red silk on both ends?
 
#10
My first idea was als Spiro Solos (before reading your list).

The first thing I would recommend would be let a luther setup your nut and bridge, so that you can reach 6-7.3-8.7-10 (or 6-7-8-9) with your adjustable bridge.
Then go back to the Spiros you got and try them again. If it is still too much tune them down a halftone and try them again (that would be for Spiro Weich, assuming you have Mittel on your bass now), if this is still too much tune down a halftone again and try your strings again (that would be for Spiro Solos at orchestra pitch). If one of this is OK for you, then get the set and be happy.
If you were talking about 3/4 Spiros, there is an option of getting the 4/4 Spiro Solo with even less tension (again tune down your current strings by an halftone for this tension).

Innovation Silver Slaps are really easy to play, tension like a bit lower tension gut, but a good setup should be there first. I'm not sure if I would play jazz with them, but for the other styles you mentioned they are fine. For jazz a bit more tension like the Super Silvers might be better (but a bit less good for slap).
I still think some kind of lower tension Spiros might be best, so try the tuning down described before (and let the instrument settle for a few days until you decide about the sound). If tuning down the Spiros by a minor third (after the luthier setup!) is still too much tension, then the Silver Slaps might be a solution for you.

Don't waste your time with a bass not set up correctly, I did this for years with my instrument and should have done the new setup much earlier.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TroyK
#12
KUNGfuSHERIFF said:
"The string heights at the end of the fingerboard are more like 9-10-11-12. The string height at the octave are 7-8-9-10. At 1st position on the E string it's at about 5mm. I'm measuring from the fingerboard to the center of the string, so I don't know if I'm doing it right. At Ab on the E string it's 6mm. That's with the adjustable bridge dialed pretty much all the way as low it'll go."

Standard practice is to measure the airspace between the board and the string, but that's useful information you've provided. Your strings sound like they're REALLY high at the nut end, especially for a new player. If I'm understanding you correctly, the first thing you should do IMO is have a good bass luthier work on the string slots in the nut. The rule of thumb is that you should just be able to slide a business card under the strings at the nut. With the strings at an appropriate height, it should be much easier to stop the notes, and at a cost far below $200.

IME LaBella strings in general are pretty blah. Ron Carter seems to be the only person who really digs the black-nylon strings. I played them on a Kay at Gage's shop and thought they were OK but not something I'd ever spend money on.
Click to expand...


Great info! Thank you! :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: KUNGfuSHERIFF
#13
moles said:
...of course they have the new *white* tape wound version now too :/

IME having a properly set up nut height does wonders for a hard-to-play set up. At a certain point too, one just has to put the work in and strengthen the technique and muscles required to play the thing correctly (efficiently and without causing yourself damage!)
Are the Spirocores on your bass right now the Mittels (medium)? Red silk on both ends?
Click to expand...

They have blue silk at both ends. Maybe I'm wrong about the strings? I think they're Spirocores.
 
#16
KUNGfuSHERIFF said:
If they're Thomastiks, electric blue silk at both ends would be Superflexibles in Orchestra (medium) gauge. Those are slightly less stiff than Spiro Reds.
Click to expand...

Correct. Super Flexibles are potentially higher tension though. I don't love the feel of them myself. If David Gage is an option for you, then yeah do that. Alternatively get a referral from someone else in the area. Talk to them about what you're going for an they'll work through it with you. Much more valuable than talking to us about it, I promise you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jake deVilliers

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back