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Double Bass need help with live sound

i am playing a upton hybrid through a acoustic image contra II. i am playing with a madolin player and acoustic guitar. we are playing in some fairly loud bars with lots of crowd noise. my bass acoustically sounds great to me, but amplified sounds a bit muddy and hard to make out notes. i have a rev solo II pickup. i have messed around with the hp filter and the notch filter on the ai amp with decent results. its not like im not getting a usable sound out of the gear i have, just not great. i am new to urb and realize it may just be my fingers and bad tech. my bass amplified just sounds to "thuddy" to me. would a preamp or microphone help? or do i just need to work with what i have and get better at playing? any suggestions are welcome iwould appeciate any input.
 
i am playing a upton hybrid through a acoustic image contra II. i am playing with a madolin player and acoustic guitar. we are playing in some fairly loud bars with lots of crowd noise. my bass acoustically sounds great to me, but amplified sounds a bit muddy and hard to make out notes. i have a rev solo II pickup. i have messed around with the hp filter and the notch filter on the ai amp with decent results. its not like im not getting a usable sound out of the gear i have, just not great. i am new to urb and realize it may just be my fingers and bad tech. my bass amplified just sounds to "thuddy" to me. would a preamp or microphone help? or do i just need to work with what i have and get better at playing? any suggestions are welcome iwould appeciate any input.
Is every one else plugged in with piezo's or does everyone else use mics?

What do they play through?

What speaker are you using? Where is it on stage?

Is it possible to have someone check the fit of the Rev Solo?
 
Howdy bass dan. More questions ...

Do the held notes sound muddy or boomy and unclear, or is it more of the attack on each pizz pluck that sounds kinda thuddy? If it's the latter, maybe there are things we can get into related to right hand technique that might help. Maybe the fit of the Rev Solo too like Uncletoad mentioned.

Have you been able to listen to any other bass players go at it using your bass and your amp?

Have you tried getting out in front of the Contra like six feet or so, or are you standing right over top of it or alongside it?

Other questions will probably follow. Be patient ...

Oh yeah. Crowd noise sucks, unless they are applauding for you, or buying lots of drinks and filling the cash registers. Cuts a huge swath right through the crucial mid-range.
 
everyone else is running straight into the pa and i also am going from the direct out on the amp into the pa. my anp is a combo. mandolin is using a bridge syle pickup the guitar is a plug in. the location of the amp is in a corner and the room is concrete floor and brick walls. the "thuddy" noise is more from the pluck of the string than the note. im playing bluegrass mostly and the basic "1-5" back and forth on the e and a strings is pretty solid, but the walks and filler notes seem to disapear particularly on the d string. i have my pickup r side out, and have messed with it to get the best sound in my house which may not be the best position for out in bars. on my amp last time out i had the bass at about 11 the tremble at about 1 the mids i went back and forth between cutting them a bit to flat to raising them. i had the filter on hp at about 10 and swapped the notch filter on from time to time. im using obligato strings. i know that the surface the ai amp bounces off could have a big effect. as you all know making adjustments on the fly can really suck, what sounds good before the song starts does not always when the other intruments come in. thanks for the replies thus far, and please keep them coming.
 
I'm not sure I understood how you have the settings on your amp but it may be that you have to much low end in the signal.

Is that the amp that has the downfiring speaker?

I've never been able to make that work.

Try getting it up off the floor somehow see if that helps.

Perhaps get it out of the Corner. The corner, floor, and wall relationship may be "horn loading" it somewhat and exaggerating the low end.

Don't despair, amplifying the instrument is a bitch. I've spent many years and thousands of dollars and I STILL don't like what I sound like.

Keep tweaking, moving things around, and reporting.
 
the "thuddy" noise is more from the pluck of the string than the note ... im playing bluegrass mostly and the basic "1-5" back and forth on the e and a strings is pretty solid, but the walks and filler notes seem to disapear particularly on the d string.
Sounds like you've already tried and evaluated several things, which is great.

Does the D string sound like it kind of disappears without an amp? I ask this because on my bass, the E string seems unusually loud and strong using a p/u compared to how the E string sounds unamped. I guess that makes a little sense, w/ a pickup mounted in the bridge wing slot on the E string side. So I've had good luck with the high pass filter taming that E string so that it more closely matches the string to string balance I get from the instrument itself. Also helps save may speaker quite a bit from working too hard on those lowest frequencies and infrasonics. Maybe your D is not speaking well because the E and A are overemphasized coming through your pickup perhaps? When I had a Series I Contra, I typically turned down the bass EQ knob to like 9:00 or 10:00. Same thing. Just too bassy and boomy with the two main types of piezo p/u's that I ran through it.

With your right hand, are you making contact with the sides of your finger(s) or are you using the pads / fingertips more, electric bass style? Either way, sometimes if you come to rest or come down really hard on the string below the one you just plucked, that can create a funky "thump" that can really be magnified out of proportion through some piezo pickups.
 
i seem to be fairly aggresive on the pluck, almost slap syle, that not really what im after just happens naturally. i have a really nice calus developing on the side on my index finger. i dont think i have anything consistant going yet as far as plucking. acoustically my bass sounds fairly balanced. im not sure what i should be doing as far as mid range tones go. that seems to be a critical frequency, should i try to boost or cut that frequency? i will try to get with the guys im playing with outside of a gig situation to work on my amplified sound. it seems the only time we can find time to get together is at gigs. thanks so much for the input. ill be playing with a bluegrass band other than my own this weekend on a outdoor wooden deck, these guys use a single condenser mic, i will probably go thru my amp and see what happens. i will report back hopefully with positive results. thanks again.
 
I'll make a suggestion. Forget about the p/u, and just get the best sound you can unamped. That way, if you were using just a mic for example, you would be getting a happenin' sound. Maybe you are there already. If so, cool.

Then ... Start fiddling with how your Rev Solo fits in the slot. Or try different amp settings ... or different pickups (many of us have), different amps, or maybe preamps. But keep the pizz approach as constant as you can. Find the equipment and settings that work best w/ the way you play your bass unamped. Don't adjust how you play to make the p/u sound better.

Unfortunately, this is something I am guilty of. I use different right hand technique when I use only a p/u vs. no amp or just a mic. I get lazy using a pickup. In fact, when I really dig in like I would w/ no amp, the p/u I use starts to sound pretty ratty. So until I make some changes, I've got two techniques to keep up with. But I know it really shouldn't be so.

Mid-range is key like you said. Cutting it may sound more natural at home, but boosting may help you sit in the mix better live. It's an overused term too that means different things to different people / ears. But you are right, it is critical to getting a realistic amplified tone for bass, for helping you hear yourself, and helping others hear you. If you can't adjust the frequency like with a parametric, then all you've got is boost and cut. What works best might change somewhat from room to room and from group to group.

Sounds cliche, and I am admittedly no superstar, but except for the HPF, I run my EQ flat and try to get the tone from my hands. Like Uncletoad said, where the speaker is placed is also key, and will vary from room to room. [ Edit: Speakers close to walls and corners emphasize depth & low end IME. Moving away from same thins out the sound. ]

Just gotta keep experimentin'. We all do pretty much ...
 
Do you know if it sounds thuddy through the house PA, or only sounds thuddy to you on stage where you are mostly hearing your AI combo amp? What you hear on stage might be greatly improved if you use the legs on the AI amp to aim it upward. That will get the speaker off the floor a little more as well as aim midrange and tweeter speakers more at your ear. Should help what you hear, and what is heard in the house too. If the AI amp is in a corner, get it away from there.

Good luck. This is a pain for all of us.
 
played last night outdoors thru the contra with better results. used much less volume than i did indoors, less crowd noise, the other instuments were not as loud, just better all the way around. still not totally satisfied, but may never be. considering getting a mic and mixing the pickup with the mic. i have posted on a thread about the solstice preamp. ill just keep trying different things, but obviously things change from room to room and there is no set way to get things and then be done. thank all for the input you cant beat experience and as i gain some i will share it.