Need opinions and guidance building a space elevator.

[Angus]

Do you have any idea how much your life, just your single life, has benefitted from the Apollo space program?

If you look up the list of downstream technology that came from the Apollo program, the list contains mostly items that fell out of favor to concurrently-produced items (Monsanto's Durette vs. DuPont's Nomex, for example), items we don't actually use, and then a few things that are useful.

The only one in the entire list that I use on a regular basis is a cordless drill. The tech didn't come from the Apollo program (it already existed), but companies made a push afterward to produce it commercially.

That's it.

It's worth not overestimating the utility of a particular program. The Apollo had considerably more importance culturally and scientifically for it's own merit rather than for the day-to-day impact it had on a person's life.

Be an INFORMED skeptic or be another internet opinion machine. The internet has lot's of opinion not much fact or experience.

Informed. Also realistic. Your latter sentence is a humorous distillation of the problem with this project.

This project is an inevitable engineering project at some point in the future. But the money is not there, mostly because there is not yet much need for it, and the construction cost will be INSANE. Every member of talkbass could donate the $8 you want and their budget would be less than a tenth of a percent. It is a waste to donate.

Technology is important when it is needed, but a silly luxury when it isn't. At this level of cost and grandiosity, it just isn't important enough to warrant worldwide interest.

 

[MJ5150]

mcglyph.....what association/investment/interest do you have in this venture? You're always prodding people to donate $$$ and tell their friends to donate $$$.

-Mike

 

[mcglyph]

mcglyph.....what association/investment/interest do you have in this venture? You're always prodding people to donate $$$ and tell their friends to donate $$$.

-Mike

I have 1k invested in this project. A princely sum for me. And the 8$ is not the point, really, it's community involvement, it's cross state involvement, it's country involvement. It's the melding of this single minded world into something worth living in. Where we are working together towards a great thing vs what are often the tiniest things!

 

[mcglyph]

If you look up the list of downstream technology that came from the Apollo program, the list contains mostly items that fell out of favor to concurrently-produced items (Monsanto's Durette vs. DuPont's Nomex, for example), items we don't actually use, and then a few things that are useful.

The only one in the entire list that I use on a regular basis is a cordless drill. The tech didn't come from the Apollo program (it already existed), but companies made a push afterward to produce it commercially.

That's it.

It's worth not overestimating the utility of a particular program. The Apollo had considerably more importance culturally and scientifically for it's own merit rather than for the day-to-day impact it had on a person's life.



Informed. Also realistic. Your latter sentence is a humorous distillation of the problem with this project.

This project is an inevitable engineering project at some point in the future. But the money is not there, mostly because there is not yet much need for it, and the construction cost will be INSANE. Every member of talkbass could donate the $8 you want and their budget would be less than a tenth of a percent. It is a waste to donate.

Technology is important when it is needed, but a silly luxury when it isn't. At this level of cost and grandiosity, it just isn't important enough to warrant worldwide interest.

This is just one article detailing the benefits we all have received either from the space program or as an offshoot.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[mcglyph]

A blurb from a very long post..


We explore space and create important new technologies to advance our economy. It is true that, for every dollar we spend on the space program, the U.S. economy receives about $8 of economic benefit. Space exploration can also serve as a stimulus for children to enter the fields of science and engineering.

Edit.. Here is the whole thing. Maybe someone will read just the smallest bit and get something out of it.

Invalid Link Removed

 

[mcglyph]

Global Positioning System: The mankind depends on the sea trade for transportation of food grains, fossil fuels, metal ores, etc. Global navigation system, GPS helps in timely delivery of these essential goods by providing the ships with essential navigation information. The GNS services are made available using networks of satellites which also enables satellite Internet and satellite phones.
Weather Forecast and Agriculture: Gone are the days, when we used to take an umbrella with us while going out if there were black clouds in the sky. Now we can rely on the weather reports updated on an hourly basis. The accurate weather forecast is possible only because of the satellites in the space. The satellites also help us in predicting the crop yields, pest infestation and the area under cultivation.
Natural Calamities: It is easy to predict natural calamities such as floods, storms, tornadoes, hurricanes and to locate wildfires and their extent with the help of satellites.
Minerals and Mining: Minerals buried deep under the Earth's surface can be located using satellites. Precious fossil fuels can be found with the help of satellites.
Electronics: The field of electronics and computers have also benefited from the space exploration. The astronauts have manufactured miniature electronic parts that could only be produced in the space during their experiments in the space stations and space shuttles.
Asteroids: It is believed that an asteroid strike eliminated the dinosaurs on the Earth. One of the benefits of space exploration is that we know about the thousands of asteroids and we can also be vigilant about their "drifts". May be we could prevent 'dinosaurian death of mankind', if and when an asteroid is positioned to repeat history. If it happens, it would be because of the knowledge which is the direct benefit of space exploration.
Energy Source: The scientists and researchers all over the world are attempting to harness the power of nuclear fusion. The process which enables the Sun to produce energy in abundance. It is believed that quantity of electricity generated using 1kg of hydrogen would be equivalent to that of 11,000 metric tons of coal.
Medicine: Another field to glean the benefits of the satellite exploration is that of medicine. Metal alloys that are manufactured to be used in spacecraft and space shuttles are also used in the health care industry. Nitinol, an alloy is used to make braces. The miniature electronic components which were developed for the space program can be used in electronic pain-control device that some patients need to use. The implantable insulin pump is based on the mechanical robot arm developed for the Mars Voyager probe.

One more blurb. Good stuff.

The space exploration benefits also encompasses the field of communication which needs no explanation. The applications of knowledge and the technologies, that are the outcome of the man's efforts to explore space, are making his life easier indeed!

Read more: Invalid Link Removed

 

[curbowkid]

I have 1k invested in this project. A princely sum for me. And the 8$ is not the point, really, it's community involvement, it's cross state involvement, it's country involvement. It's the melding of this single minded world into something worth living in. Where we are working together towards a great thing vs what are often the tiniest things!

What is an elevator to space going to do to make the world a better place to be in? Add a second floor of chaos and disorder?

 

[mcglyph]

What is an elevator to space going to do to make the world a better place to be in? Add a second floor of chaos and disorder?

As I mentioned, the construction of lab space that is available for rental would be hugely beneficial, there is science and technology in the works all over the world that is been held up because either they have no option to work in the environment they need, or if they do have the option it is ludicrously expensive. A space elevator would make this so much more accessible it's not funny, so a lot more research could take place without needing some sort of huge big time financial backer.

Having a staging platform where any kind of space vehicles could be constructed would allow us to explore and travel far further than we ever have before. Something built in space has no need to by aerodynamically designed, it doesn't need to take off and land, or pass through any form of atmosphere, it can be whatever shape or size is convenient and functional to contain the features it needs, and it can be constructed in a low gravity environment.

Bottom line imo is that there is a lot of stuff out there for us to see and experience, so much to learn from that could benefit humanity is so many ways, and that no matter what we do people are ruthless consumers and will have stripped this planet of everything its got before to long, so the sooner we get out there amongst the stars the better.

And as mentioned, once one space elevator is built, the prospect of more elevators becomes very achievable. Space will no longer be unreachable, unachievable, a dream, space will be a reality that is just a few hours on an elevator away.
__________________

 

[curbowkid]

As I mentioned, the construction of lab space that is available for rental would be hugely beneficial, there is science and technology in the works all over the world that is been held up because either they have no option to work in the environment they need, or if they do have the option it is ludicrously expensive. A space elevator would make this so much more accessible it's not funny, so a lot more research could take place without needing some sort of huge big time financial backer.

Having a staging platform where any kind of space vehicles could be constructed would allow us to explore and travel far further than we ever have before. Something built in space has no need to by aerodynamically designed, it doesn't need to take off and land, or pass through any form of atmosphere, it can be whatever shape or size is convenient and functional to contain the features it needs, and it can be constructed in a low gravity environment.

Bottom line imo is that there is a lot of stuff out there for us to see and experience, so much to learn from that could benefit humanity is so many ways, and that no matter what we do people are ruthless consumers and will have stripped this planet of everything its got before to long, so the sooner we get out there amongst the stars the better.

And as mentioned, once one space elevator is built, the prospect of more elevators becomes very achievable. Space will no longer be unreachable, unachievable, a dream, space will be a reality that is just a few hours on an elevator away.
__________________

So having real estate on a space platform would be cheaper than space on the ground? I don't see how saying as the upkeep up a space elevator / platform would cost a ton of money. Bridges alone cost millions to upkeep. What do we do if something fails? Space traveling vehicles like you describe are quite a long ways down the line still, what would the operational life expectancy of this thing be? I see more questions and loose ends than answers.

 

[mcglyph]

So having real estate on a space platform would be cheaper than space on the ground? I don't see how saying as the upkeep up a space elevator / platform would cost a ton of money. Bridges alone cost millions to upkeep. What do we do if something fails? Space traveling vehicles like you describe are quite a long ways down the line still, what would the operational life expectancy of this thing be? I see more questions and loose ends than answers.

The people who know. I mean really know, or at least to a degree ten times ten what you or I might, at least are searching for these answers. And the point is the answers are worth finding out. Either you believe as do the majority of civilized cultures on this planet, space exploration is vital for it's incalculable ascribed benefits, or you don't. If not, there isn't any convincing you.

There are questions, many of them, some of the questions aren't even known. And yet, sometime in the fairly distant past, despite all of this, a man put his foot on that rock floating out there above us. Think about that. For the entire lifetime of earth as far as we know, no one had done that before. Up until someone did the research answered all those questions, etc, no one thought it possible. Just like when you wake up in the morning, there are nothing but questions, and as long as you keep breathing, answers and solutions. Go to the website lift.com for ten minutes, check it out. To paraphrase a few sayings, all the right answers are not known, however, discerning the correct questions through experiments, etc, is well worth the effort it will take.

 

[nashvillebill]

I agree that a space elevator would be a huge step forward.

However, technologically, it is NOT feasible. Why?

The material strength-to-weight ratio that would be required is roughly 100 times greater than any presently known material on our planet. Nanotubes of boron nitride gets a little closer, but still far far short.

 

[mcglyph]

I agree that a space elevator would be a huge step forward.

However, technologically, it is NOT feasible. Why?

The material strength-to-weight ratio that would be required is roughly 100 times greater than any presently known material on our planet. Nanotubes of boron nitride gets a little closer, but still far far short.

Yes, as previously mentioned, the from earth to near space elevator is years away. The tech has to be scaled to the required levels. Yep. However, the LUNAR ELEVATOR is well within reach, and when completed will not only be an amazing accomplishment with far reaching social, economic, cultural, etc, benefits, it will naturally pave the way for the work required for the real step. The one. The from earth space elevator. The one which among other things will enable us to construct whatever we want to attempt in space, without having to blast it all up there pushed by a freaking tail o' flame.

 

[Angus]

I don't think you really understand how far we are, technologically, from this being feasible. We aren't "years away."

 

[mcglyph]

I don't think you really understand how far we are, technologically, from this being feasible. We aren't "years away."

My information based on the state of carbon nanotube tech, is we are conservatively 20 years from the, "from earth elevator". If it happens sooner, man that would be awesome. I'm just happy there have been a few people including you, who were at least casually interested in real discussion. Thanks to you all.

 

[FREAKYSTLYEY]

*** is this an epic joke?

Ah well I have been played

I'm going to add that a elevator to space would cut down in amount of fuel used to get out of our atmosphere. And plenty of other benefits

I just see this as impossible with current technology, ok say you find the correct material in 20 years.. Do you know how much will be required? And HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE TO BUILD A PLANT TO MANUFACTURE HUGE QUANTITIES OF THIS STUFF.

 

[darius8]

^^ Yeah, the biggest cost will be in the building of the elevator (or arch). The operation cost will be fractional. The material of the structure would have to resist extreme heat, extreme cold, and be tough enough to withstand flying debris in space. It would pay for itself in time.

 

[mcglyph]

*** is this an epic joke?

Ah well I have been played

I'm going to add that a elevator to space would cut down in amount of fuel used to get out of our atmosphere. And plenty of other benefits

I just see this as impossible with current technology, ok say you find the correct material in 20 years.. Do you know how much will be required? And HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE TO BUILD A PLANT TO MANUFACTURE HUGE QUANTITIES OF THIS STUFF.

It's not a joke. Some of your questions have already been either answered or addressed in previous posts on this thread. Do I know how long, manufacture, etc? No. Do I think both the Lunar and the much more challenging, "From earth" space elevator are two of the most deserving pursuits ever? Yes!

And as stated emphatically earlier, the LUNAR Elevator is well within reach. I implore you in all things to be an INFORMED skeptic. And tell someone about this crazy idea you read about. Hopefully they will tell someone else, etc.

 

[Tituscrow]

Eight grand? No wonder you're plugging this. Sounds to me like you've been suckered.

Space elevator indeed.

 

[skychief]

Once you’ve established this Ribbon, then you’ll attach large robotic cars, called “Lifters”. These Lifters are in fact spacecraft… but instead of climbing on rockets into space, they are attached to the Ribbon by large rollers. It is these rollers pushing against the Ribbon that help the Lifters to climb to space. It is a mechanical system, not a controlled explosion at the back of a rocket.

I dont get how the rollers pushing against the ribbon will propel the Lifters into space.

 

[mcglyph]

^^ Yeah, the biggest cost will be in the building of the elevator (or arch). The operation cost will be fractional. The material of the structure would have to resist extreme heat, extreme cold, and be tough enough to withstand flying debris in space. It would pay for itself in time.

Hmm. Have not thought of this. Of course, I'm an ACTIVE supporter not the originator of the grand plan. Clearly.