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Need opinions and guidance building a space elevator.

Eight grand? No wonder you're plugging this. Sounds to me like you've been suckered.

Space elevator indeed.

Oh. Well, what a novel idea. I urge you to be an INFORMED skeptic or cynic, not an internet opinion machine.
And as a just a bit of information, until the end of the kickstarter.com campaign, I can change my pledge to as little as $1 if I like, not the 1k I have in right now. Be INFORMED. Or not.
 
Once you’ve established this Ribbon, then you’ll attach large robotic cars, called “Lifters”. These Lifters are in fact spacecraft… but instead of climbing on rockets into space, they are attached to the Ribbon by large rollers. It is these rollers pushing against the Ribbon that help the Lifters to climb to space. It is a mechanical system, not a controlled explosion at the back of a rocket.

I dont get how the rollers pushing against the ribbon will propel the Lifters into space. :confused:

You could definitely go to liftport.com and post on the forum. I do not have all the answers, clearly. Thank you for the opportunity for an honest discussion.
 
You could definitely go to liftport.com and post on the forum. I do not have all the answers, clearly. Thank you for the opportunity for an honest discussion.

Oh...ok...just did a little poking around on the site....

The rollers just keep the Lifter fixed to the ribbon. The Lifters will need their own power source and ribbon-creeping capabilities. I somehow pictured theses Lifters whizzing along at rocket-like velocities. Not the case. :p

The Lifters will creep at very low speeds - it might take hours for them to make the ascent.
 
They can't even make a building a mile high, I'm pretty sure that the chances of a structure tall enough to reach outer space without collapsing will never happen in my life, my children's life, or their children's life.

I'm guessing that the joke is on those who are donating...

It's not a buillding, its a space station anchored on a cable between a base station, and some form of counterweight in a geostationary orbit. The technology is in development and believed to be not far off, and as I mentioned earlier construction is already physically possible in a lower gravity environment (just not feasible untill we build one here first).

There is one hickup with a lunar elevator, and that is that due to the slow speed at which the moon rotates a geostationary orbit is something like 144,000 kilometers above the surface, so the cable would have to be astronomically long. However due to lower gravity, construction is already possible with existing materials, I believe a steel/kevlar composite has been proposed and is already in use for other applications.


Well, $62000 of funding for a multi-multi-billion dollar project is definitely a joke. Yeah, let's crowd source funding for what would be the most complex civil engineering exercise in man's history, decades before we have need. Sweet. Great use of funding and man hours.

Did you read the kickstarter? Baby steps, the current technology they are working on will allow them to deploy kilometer high observation and communication towers in a matter of hours, and they are planning to use them for disaster relief, search and rescue, etc.

They have many technologies which are beneficial on their own which they plan to work on in the interim, and to be honest I'm pretty impressed about how they have structured it. Better organised that I was expecting, it's not just "Give us money to help build a space elevator", that's unrealistic, instead they are working on technologies that have independent purposes, but that will in turn benefit the development of a space elevator even if they are not the ones to build it.


I agree that a space elevator would be a huge step forward.

However, technologically, it is NOT feasible. Why?

The material strength-to-weight ratio that would be required is roughly 100 times greater than any presently known material on our planet. Nanotubes of boron nitride gets a little closer, but still far far short.

As far as I know, carbon nanotubes are plenty strong enough and the progress that has been made with them in recent years is looking very promising. They also have the added advantage of been able to be constructed as a conductor, allowing the tether itself to actually power the device, or at the very least transfer electricity to and from the space based landing station.

The Lifters will creep at very low speeds - it might take hours for them to make the ascent.

With the fastest lifters that have been developed so far, you'd be looking at around 30 hours transit time I believe. Seems slow, but we're talking about travelling literally thousands of kilometers, days worth of driving straight up.

I'm not 100% sure on all these figures, just going from memory. I'll have to dig through my old Uni assignments and see if I can find the report I did, it'd be a couple of years out of date by now though.

If you look up the list of downstream technology that came from the Apollo program, the list contains mostly items that fell out of favor to concurrently-produced items (Monsanto's Durette vs. DuPont's Nomex, for example), items we don't actually use, and then a few things that are useful.

The only one in the entire list that I use on a regular basis is a cordless drill. The tech didn't come from the Apollo program (it already existed), but companies made a push afterward to produce it commercially.

That's it.

It's worth not overestimating the utility of a particular program. The Apollo had considerably more importance culturally and scientifically for it's own merit rather than for the day-to-day impact it had on a person's life.

Inventions and innovations from the space program have made a huge difference in society, not just the Apollo program specifically, but all space exploration done in general. Aside from the obvious ones (GPS, Mobile phones, etc.) there are the spinoffs, CAT scans (and MRI's), Freeze Dried Food, Lubricants, insulation materials, water filtration systems. The space program in general has pushed human science and innovation forward in a way that only one other thing has been able to in my opinion, War, and in this case, nobody gets blown up (not intentionally at least :D).

Although I'll admit a fair percentage of these were due to the cold war, so I guess war still trumps unified space exploration in a couple of ways :)

Technology is important when it is needed, but a silly luxury when it isn't. At this level of cost and grandiosity, it just isn't important enough to warrant worldwide interest.

What's more important? Obviously everybody has their priorities, and I have to say I'd like to see the world fed and clothed first, but the space elevator is up there in my opinion. Some day we're gonna leave this rock because we want to or because we have to, and I believe that the space elevator is the tool to do it. Unless we come up with some sort of crazy efficient propulsion system or figure out how to manipulate gravity.

Edit- For the record, I have no affiliation with the project or Kickstarter, and haven't donated yet. I probably will though, I've intermittently checked on LiftPorts progress a few times over the past few years and its good to see them going somewhere.
 
I like to think I have noble intentions about benefiting humanity and the boundless technological advances things like this could bring, but in all honesty, I just dream about being able to sit on the bridge of a starship yelling "Rear deflector shields at maximum!", "Divert power to starboard engines!!".

Well, maybe a little of both.
 
I like to think I have noble intentions about benefiting humanity and the boundless technological advances things like this could bring, but in all honesty, I just dream about being able to sit on the bridge of a starship yelling "Rear deflector shields at maximum!", "Divert power to starboard engines!!".

Well, maybe a little of both.

I hear ya. For me, it's this one snapshot I have in my head, from above, looking down upon some planet, be it Mars, or the Moon. The elevator is foremost, you can see the cable winding down through the clouds, and in clear view down below, there is a large cluster of bubble buildings, just sprawling. And in that one picture is the realization, in this timeframe, the elevator is now so commonplace, it's just a day. The space elevator is not just real, it's as simple as an airplane blasting overhead. No one even looks up anymore. It signifies to me how much world cooperation it took to make this happen. Thanks for chiming in Simo. Your clearly intelligent words are welcome.
 
Oh...ok...just did a little poking around on the site....

The rollers just keep the Lifter fixed to the ribbon. The Lifters will need their own power source and ribbon-creeping capabilities. I somehow pictured theses Lifters whizzing along at rocket-like velocities. Not the case. :p

The Lifters will creep at very low speeds - it might take hours for them to make the ascent.

Thank you for taking the time to check it out. I can't tell you how awesome your ACTIVE participation is! Like I've been saying even if you don't donate, think about telling some folks, etc.
 
Is a big space elevator really what humanity needs at this point? With all the starvation, homelessness, joblessness and crappy economies on the verge of collapse in the world today, I can think of SO many better uses of time, money, energy, etc. This just seems way too pointless. But if that's what Mr. Laine feels the world really needs, then more power to him I guess.

Yes I did read the link, so I feel partially informed. Yes I still believe this to be a ridiculous waste of time and resources that could be better spent serving the people of the world.
 
I read the jumbled mess of a rambling link, found out nothing. asked what it would provide us on talkbass and got more rambling nonsense and no answers... all I've found out is "you can do stuff up there, you know, to make life better"

tell me specifically what good this can do?
 
Is a big space elevator really what humanity needs at this point? With all the starvation, homelessness, joblessness and crappy economies on the verge of collapse in the world today, I can think of SO many better uses of time, money, energy, etc. This just seems way too pointless. But if that's what Mr. Laine feels the world really needs, then more power to him I guess.

Yes I did read the link, so I feel partially informed. Yes I still believe this to be a ridiculous waste of time and resources that could be better spent serving the people of the world.

The world doesn't need $3,000 bass guitars either.

-Mike
 
Right...

...and in 1950, fusion power was 10 years away... and in 1960, fusion power was 10 years away... ...and in 1970, fusion power was 10 years away... and in 1980, fusion power was 10 years away......and in 1990, fusion power was 10 years away... and in 2000, fusion power was 10 years away...

And still we as a civilized world are trying to ask the right questions to find the right way. I mean what other option is there? Give up? Stop trying all these, "impossible", things?
 
And still we as a civilized world are trying to ask the right questions to find the right way. I mean what other option is there? Give up? Stop trying all these, "impossible", things?

You do make a good point, in that people should continue to attempt what we deem impossible in the name of progress, but I must admit that I believe the actualization of such a project is a lot further off than "a few years". I doubt you will see construction on this begin in your lifetime.
 
I read the jumbled mess of a rambling link, found out nothing. asked what it would provide us on talkbass and got more rambling nonsense and no answers... all I've found out is "you can do stuff up there, you know, to make life better"

tell me specifically what good this can do?

There are 4 pages on this thread. Page three I believe is pretty much full with benefits.

1. Space is one area which has traditionally gotten normally at odds countries to work together. ***Getting the planet to work together***

2. The lunar elevator is the first good step in the natural progression towards the from earth version. ***Both of these elevator types will significantly decrease the problems associated with rocket driven vessels*** In addition to some other aforementioned items.
 
Is a big space elevator really what humanity needs at this point? With all the starvation, homelessness, joblessness and crappy economies on the verge of collapse in the world today, I can think of SO many better uses of time, money, energy, etc. This just seems way too pointless. But if that's what Mr. Laine feels the world really needs, then more power to him I guess.

Yes I did read the link, so I feel partially informed. Yes I still believe this to be a ridiculous waste of time and resources that could be better spent serving the people of the world.

There are other posts on this thread, many of which accurately express why space exploration is something incredibly worthwhile. You either start by agreeing on the value of space exploration (and a space elevator is sort of a natural progression from, "traditional" rocket driven ships)or not. If you think space exploration is pointless, then it would be hard to move your viewpoint. Either way, I thank you for taking the time to read the link. Please consider going to liftport.com and reading further. If not just tell someone you know about this crazy idea, maybe they will tell someone, etc.
 
You do make a good point, in that people should continue to attempt what we deem impossible in the name of progress, but I must admit that I believe the actualization of such a project is a lot further off than "a few years". I doubt you will see construction on this begin in your lifetime.

The tech for the lunar elevator is here now, of course there are some hurdles, etc. This is Nowhere near as far off as you might think.